Will Florida be Rigged Again?
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Will Florida be Rigged Again?
It's been theorized that Jeb Bush practically gave the state of Florida to his brother for the 2000 election. Do you think there's going to be some screwy shit going on for a second election or will Jeb Bush not stick by his family?
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I wouldn't bet the presidency on that state, that's all I'll say.
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I'm seeing exactly zero evidence that FLA will be rigged in the future, even if it was in the past. That in and of itself is questionable.
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Oh yes, PLEASE ignore Jeb telling DBT that fucked up felon lists having a 40% error rate against blacks is A-OK.SPOOFE wrote:Yeah, damn that Jeb for designing the Butterfly Ballot!It's been theorized that Jeb Bush practically gave the state of Florida to his brother for the 2000 election.
Oh wait...
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
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I'd say that's roughly ACCURATE. especially in large cities.Hamel wrote: Oh yes, PLEASE ignore Jeb telling DBT that fucked up felon lists having a 40% error rate against blacks is A-OK.
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And before anyone starts to flame me, fuck you.
Here in my home state of Maryland, the black community leaders
are always constantly bitching over our voting eligibility system.
Why? Because the system does not take away your voting rights until
you have been convicted three consecutive times of a felony. That's
right, not just once, but THREE TIMES, and they have the gall to
claim that discriminates against blacks?
Fuck them, fuck them hard.
Here in my home state of Maryland, the black community leaders
are always constantly bitching over our voting eligibility system.
Why? Because the system does not take away your voting rights until
you have been convicted three consecutive times of a felony. That's
right, not just once, but THREE TIMES, and they have the gall to
claim that discriminates against blacks?
Fuck them, fuck them hard.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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The only reason Florida was even an issue in 2000 was because whoever won it would decide who became president, and the margin of voctory there was so small. If one candidate had a comfortable majority of the electoral vote, or one had a clear majority of the popular votes in Florida, then it never would have been an issue. So no, I'm not expecting it again in 2004.
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Really? Then who do you expect Florida to go for?Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:The only reason Florida was even an issue in 2000 was because whoever won it would decide who became president, and the margin of voctory there was so small. If one candidate had a comfortable majority of the electoral vote, or one had a clear majority of the popular votes in Florida, then it never would have been an issue. So no, I'm not expecting it again in 2004.
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Florida will probably be watched like a hawk this year, so no.
*is glad Pennsylvania has had the voting machines that a retarded chimp couldn't mess up for as long as he can remember*
*is glad Pennsylvania has had the voting machines that a retarded chimp couldn't mess up for as long as he can remember*
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But, but a big corporation made them, they'll be bias for the Republicans.Chardok wrote:Many florida counties have purchased electronic optical scan voting machines from Diebold Co. so I doubt there will be much error this time.
Honestly, while the media might sniff around and the partisans on both sides might make snipes in Florida, unless its the deciding vote again it will be marginal.
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not this again. two things:
1. The Miami Herald commissioned an independant study to determine the results of the election after the SCOTUS decision. They found that if SCOTUS had ruled in favor of Gore and allowed the vote counting to continue Bush's margin of victory would have actually increased.
2. Voting is as much a responsibility as it is a right. If you do not possess sufficient intellegence to allow you to understand something marginally confusing, like a butterfly ballot, then you shouldn't be voting in the first place.
1. The Miami Herald commissioned an independant study to determine the results of the election after the SCOTUS decision. They found that if SCOTUS had ruled in favor of Gore and allowed the vote counting to continue Bush's margin of victory would have actually increased.
2. Voting is as much a responsibility as it is a right. If you do not possess sufficient intellegence to allow you to understand something marginally confusing, like a butterfly ballot, then you shouldn't be voting in the first place.
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AP Tests showed that Bush's margin of victory would have decreased if they counted hanging chads but not dimpled chads, and increased if they had counted dimpled and hanging chads. They showed that Bush won the state regardless of which test was applied.Col. Crackpot wrote:not this again. two things:
1. The Miami Herald commissioned an independant study to determine the results of the election after the SCOTUS decision. They found that if SCOTUS had ruled in favor of Gore and allowed the vote counting to continue Bush's margin of victory would have actually increased.
I don't really see the butterfly ballot as being confusing. The issue with it is that it violates FLA law regulating ballots.2. Voting is as much a responsibility as it is a right. If you do not possess sufficient intellegence to allow you to understand something marginally confusing, like a butterfly ballot, then you shouldn't be voting in the first place.
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Bullshit. The Media Consortium statewide count of "undervotes" and "overvotes" proves Gore won under ANY standard. However, they decide to spin their own findings. They went on to claim that Bush won with undervotes, which came from a two corner detatched standard that was prohibited by legal precedent.Master of Ossus wrote: 1. The Miami Herald commissioned an independant study to determine the results of the election after the SCOTUS decision. They found that if SCOTUS had ruled in favor of Gore and allowed the vote counting to continue Bush's margin of victory would have actually increased.
AP Tests showed that Bush's margin of victory would have decreased if they counted hanging chads but not dimpled chads, and increased if they had counted dimpled and hanging chads. They showed that Bush won the state regardless of which test was applied.
1.25 million votes were not counted. That was in direct violation of state law, which required a machine recount when the margin of victory was under .5%. 175,000 were never counted at all during the election because of rejection from voting machines, including the chad problems that were a result of clogged machines that weren't cleaned in two years, making it difficult to fully punch a hole, and votes that were rejected even when voters followed instructions fully (writing candidate name would often yield a rejection even though it was part of the instructions).
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
Shep when you're talking about disenfranchising 40% of a community for whatever reason that is extremely troubling. As a former prisoner yourself I would think you would have some symptahy for someone that fucks up and ends up incarncerated. (and no this is not some stupid ad Hominem I'm just curious why that is.)MKSheppard wrote:And before anyone starts to flame me, fuck you.
Here in my home state of Maryland, the black community leaders
are always constantly bitching over our voting eligibility system.
Why? Because the system does not take away your voting rights until
you have been convicted three consecutive times of a felony. That's
right, not just once, but THREE TIMES, and they have the gall to
claim that discriminates against blacks?
Fuck them, fuck them hard.
Wherever you go, there you are.
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Re: Will Florida be Rigged Again?
Why don't you justify this claim?JME2 wrote:It's been theorized that Jeb Bush practically gave the state of Florida to his brother for the 2000 election. Do you think there's going to be some screwy shit going on for a second election or will Jeb Bush not stick by his family?
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Ah, yes, you counter AP recounting with a LUDICROUSLY biased article that flat out MAKES UP information that is impossible to find. For example, notice how the people writing that article KNOW that people who went to the polls but could not vote due to a lack of translators were 90% for Gore, while admitting that they speculated on the percentages of numerous other types of votes (for which ballots actually DID exist). Meanwhile, the article used a dishonest method of tallying votes that allowed for different standards between the various papers (for example, it counts the Miami Herald's votes with hanging chads and dimpled chads, but not for the Sun's counts). This varying standard is invariably weighted towards the Gore camp, and actually changes the outcome of the recounts by more than 50,000 votes.Hamel wrote:Bullshit. The Media Consortium statewide count of "undervotes" and "overvotes" proves Gore won under ANY standard. However, they decide to spin their own findings. They went on to claim that Bush won with undervotes, which came from a two corner detatched standard that was prohibited by legal precedent.
1.25 million votes were not counted. That was in direct violation of state law, which required a machine recount when the margin of victory was under .5%. 175,000 were never counted at all during the election because of rejection from voting machines, including the chad problems that were a result of clogged machines that weren't cleaned in two years, making it difficult to fully punch a hole, and votes that were rejected even when voters followed instructions fully (writing candidate name would often yield a rejection even though it was part of the instructions).
Claims that several military ballots were illegal are erroneous, and based on poor reporting that mistook one set of ballots for another that were illegal, and numerous other instances of misleading information are given, particularly galling is the accusation of a "media conspiracy" (as if the papers would want to cover something like this up, even though it would allow their magazines to sell massively more copies), which includes the claim that there was a precedent from two courts stating that counties could not arbitrarily use the "two-corner chad" method of determination, ignoring the fact that those courts were not in FLA and that their judgements were not relevant to the FLA case because the standard had been established BEFORE the election.
This:
Is an outright lie. One of my friends working for the SF Examiner was tasked with reading FLA election law, and brought this clause to everyone's attention in their offices. While I can't vouch for the accuracy of the St. Petersburg Times' report, it strikes me as being astonishing that this article would claim that no one has noted this.Despite having over a year to read Florida election law, not one member of the media consortium has noted that over 2000 fully legal votes that should have been included in every canvass of returns was never counted. Under Florida law, if you put a mark next to Gore's name, then wrote in Gore's name, it is a legal vote for Gore. This rule is specified twice in Florida law, and the statutes demand that ballots be counted in this fashion.
This is yet another outright lie by the article. In case they missed it, there was MASSIVE controversy about this within the media coverage of the event. The article also accuses the Sun of attempting to give Bush "legitimacy that he does not deserve" by stating that NO STUDY CAN BE DONE WHICH ACCURATELY DETERMINES A WINNER IN FLA! It erroneously accuses that editorial of a pro-Bush bias, despite the rather incriminating title: ELECTION 2000: WE WAS ROBBED, and shockingly accuses the entire media industry of launching a massive coverup! I'm frankly not sure how seriously I can take an article that accuses the entire media of DOWNplaying a political controversy, and these accusations are both shcoking and totally without basis in fact or reality.Also note that no mention is made of the fact that poor ballot design literally disenfranchised tens of thousands of Florida voters, and that the overwhelming majority of these voters intended to vote for Al Gore.
Moreover, its claim that "by any consistent standard" Al Gore would have won is erroneous, and its claim that the Herald attempted to spin-doctor its results to show George Bush the winner is a lie. The "unrealistic scenarios under which Bush would win the presidency" that it accuses the Herald of making up were in fact unrealistic. The Herald used AL GORE'S RECOUNT STANDARD when it made its study that showed Bush would have won Florida, and it also revealed that Bush would have won by over 1000 votes. You can say that this is dishonest, since Gore's standard was unrealistic, but frankly it's what Gore wanted to have happen. The double-standard employed by the article in attempting to claim with one hand that Gore should have won, and with the other dismissing Al Gore's recount standard, is ludicrous and represents a bias that has gone out of control. Let's look at some of the OTHER "unrealistic scenarios" that the article you presented accuses the Herald of using by quoting the Herald itself:
Ironically, the ONLY scenario in which Gore would have won the FLA election and therefore the presidency (according to the Herald), would have been if BUSH's desired recount had taken place, and then Gore would have won Florida by three votes. It should also be noted that of the 20+ states that have a specific standard in the case of a manual recount, only Indiana demands Bush's standard.Under the Florida Supreme Court order, which exempted counties where manual counts had already taken place, Bush would have added 1,128 votes to his official 537-vote lead - if every dimple, pinprick or hanging chad on a punch-card ballot is considered a valid vote. That would have yielded a final margin of 1,665 votes.
His final lead would have fallen to 884 if dimples were counted as presidential votes only on ballots that had dimples in other races.
His lead would have dwindled to 363 if votes were counted only when a punch-card chad was detached by at least two corners, perhaps the most common standard applied nationally.
I, thus, have NO idea where this article generates its erroneous information that claims Gore would have won by several thousand votes. I find many of its claims to be HIGHLY contentious at best, and some of them to be outright lies.
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A felony conviction is not the life ender the black community says it is - itStravo wrote: Shep when you're talking about disenfranchising 40% of a community for whatever reason that is extremely troubling. As a former prisoner yourself I would think you would have some symptahy for someone that fucks up and ends up incarncerated.
can be wiped from your record...providing you keep your nose clean, which
seems to be pretty damn hard for a lot of blacks to do.
And yes, that stuff about the Black community "leaders" bitching about
how the Maryland "three strikes" rule disenfranchises black voters are
FUCKING IDIOTS. In Virginia, it's one fucking strike IIRC, and you cannot
vote again. Here, we give you three fucking tries to get your act together,
and the black community is saying that's disenfranchisement? Fuck them!
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I was about to go off when I first saw this topic, but good fucking god you liberals have to begin to face facts instead of just ignoring them. Bush WON the presidency. He has a good chance of doing it a second time. So far both sides efforts to cheat at the polls have pretty much canacelled out so wtf? He won florida, get over it.
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