Zsinj vs Borg with an Assimilated ISD.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-01-16 05:23pm

An ISD is only a few weeks into its first mission when its struck by a strange plot anomoly. It hurled deep into borg space. It's assimilated as its crew is all unconsious they're all assimilated. Two years later Warload Zsinj (set just after the loss of the impalacble. find a wormhole and decides to conquer that galaxy stating with the borg.
How does this scenario end? How fr to the borg advance with the assimilated knowledge of an ISDs crew? Can they with stand the Warlords forces all his cunning?.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-01-16 05:25pm

Without the proper materials with which to construct more powerful weapons and starships with (durasteel, for example) all that knowledge will be useless to them. The Borg die.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-01-16 07:37pm

Actually, two years latter he finds out that the Borg dismantled the ISD to make many little useless Cubes.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-01-16 07:40pm

And the Borgs themselves remain quite the same, despite having added "all their biological and technological distinctives to our own."

But some of them gain silly quirks like saying "roger roger" once in a while. Or was that battledroids? Hmm...

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-01-16 11:17pm

Where's Robert?

The Borg might do some damage if they leave the Stormtrooper's uniforms intact and use the Weapons on the ship. But most likely they will at least convert the ship to run and operate Borg systems and learch around the Galaxy being generallly a nuesence nothing more.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-17 01:16am

The Borg would not be able to assimilate ship itself since it is far more advanced then themselves.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-01-17 08:18am

evilcat4000 wrote:The Borg would not be able to assimilate ship itself since it is far more advanced then themselves.

Did you not read the OP? the ship WAS assimilated, it crew were unconcious.
And i'll now add that it sheilds were down when it was transfered, it automated defesne are inactive, and if you don't think the borg could transport through the ISD's hull why then several small holes were made in its outer armour.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-17 11:28am

Isolder74 wrote:Where's Robert?

Damn! Gotta love a reputation.

Crazedwraith wrote: An ISD is only a few weeks into its first mission when its struck by a strange plot anomoly.

I just love those.

It hurled deep into borg space. It's assimilated as its crew is all unconsious they're all assimilated. Two years later Warload Zsinj (set just after the loss of the impalacble. find a wormhole and decides to conquer that galaxy stating with the borg.
How does this scenario end? How fr to the borg advance with the assimilated knowledge of an ISDs crew? Can they with stand the Warlords forces all his cunning?.

The OP is somewhat vague IMO. You specified the crew was assimilated, and the ISD. To what degree? Did they dismantle the ISD, or simply add Borg technology so they could control it? To what degree did the Borg reverse engineer the technology of said ISD, if at all?

The entire crew was apparently assimilated, but that doesn't mean much. It's extremely unlikely the crew of a modern submarine could understand, never mind build, the entire infrastructure required to create the submarine in the first place. The crew of the ISD would know how to operate the ship, perform general repairs and such, but not build one from scratch.

Additionally, there's the problem of the Borg Collective's infrastructure. Does it possess the resources to replicate the ISD's technology? If so, how much? All of it? At what speed are we going to assume implementation of ISD level technology is being deployed throughout the Collective, again, if at all?

The OP brings up more questions then answers IMO. If the enemy "Warload Zsinj" could argueably destroy the entire Borg Collective normally, one might suggest the only exception in this case would be the assimilated ISD itself. Elaboration is required(in regards to assimilated ISD) to make further, more accurate scenario outcomes.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-01-17 04:27pm

Robert Walper wrote:It's extremely unlikely the crew of a modern submarine could understand, never mind build, the entire infrastructure required to create the submarine in the first place.

Actually, while I can't speak for the other rates, Nukes are taught the manufacturing process, in very general terms, but the old books we still have access to (Navy changed our clearances but not our libraries, go figure) are rather specific. So they have some idea. It is likely that the Imperials do as well.

If nothing else, even if the Borg couldn't assimilate whole chunks, they could assimilate enought to improve certain properties of their own stuff.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-01-17 05:02pm

Ender wrote: If nothing else, even if the Borg couldn't assimilate whole chunks, they could assimilate enought to improve certain properties of their own stuff.

They could probably make some improvements, but the overall effect would probably be something akin to teaching the Roman army how to use sniper rifles, then making them do battle with the modern-day US army.

Comosicus · Post by **Comosicus** » 2004-01-17 05:05pm

DaveJB wrote:
Ender wrote: If nothing else, even if the Borg couldn't assimilate whole chunks, they could assimilate enought to improve certain properties of their own stuff.
They could probably make some improvements, but the overall effect would probably be something akin to teaching the Roman army how to use sniper rifles, then making them do battle with the modern-day US army.

I think a better comparation will be if you use a main battle tank instead of a sniper rifle

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-17 05:08pm

Ender wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:It's extremely unlikely the crew of a modern submarine could understand, never mind build, the entire infrastructure required to create the submarine in the first place.
Actually, while I can't speak for the other rates, Nukes are taught the manufacturing process, in very general terms, but the old books we still have access to (Navy changed our clearances but not our libraries, go figure) are rather specific. So they have some idea. It is likely that the Imperials do as well.

If nothing else, even if the Borg couldn't assimilate whole chunks, they could assimilate enought to improve certain properties of their own stuff.

Well, Ender, we know what my real opinion is on the matter(ie: assimilated DeathStar anyone?

).

I've just exercising conservative thinking. I mean, we know the Borg would win because...well...resistance is futile and all that.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-01-17 05:40pm

Can anyone tell me the exact, or close to it, figures for Zsinj's fleet?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-01-17 06:45pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:Where's Robert?
Damn! Gotta love a reputation.

Crazedwraith wrote: An ISD is only a few weeks into its first mission when its struck by a strange plot anomoly.
I just love those.

It hurled deep into borg space. It's assimilated as its crew is all unconsious they're all assimilated. Two years later Warload Zsinj (set just after the loss of the impalacble. find a wormhole and decides to conquer that galaxy stating with the borg.
How does this scenario end? How fr to the borg advance with the assimilated knowledge of an ISDs crew? Can they with stand the Warlords forces all his cunning?.
The OP is somewhat vague IMO. <snip>.

I was hoping you could tell me all that. Hence my thread. How would the borg assimilate the ISD? What is their infastructure? I'll set the time period for the borg as them being at the height maybe a few weeks before the engage S74652 for the first time.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-18 11:35am

Crazedwraith wrote:
Robert Walper wrote: The OP is somewhat vague IMO. <snip>.
I was hoping you could tell me all that. Hence my thread. How would the borg assimilate the ISD?

This question is somewhat of a contradiction of your OP. You stated the ISD was already assimilated. I inquired to what extent.

If your OP was meant to merely assert the Borg are capable of assimilating the ISD, then it would no doubt be in the manner they typically assimilate other targetted craft. This would result in possibly disassembling the ship partly, maybe slicing some hull sections out of it for analysis. Borg drones would be walking around inside of it, undoubtedly analysing every piece of unique technology they could get their hands on. Thanks to the assimilated crew, the Borg would already know how to run the ship just as well as the original crew.

What is their infastructure?

The Borg Collective encompasses multi-thousands of worlds, quite likely in the tens of thousands, possibly even hundreds. They have multi-trillions of drones as manpower, and technological capabilties obviously far in excess of the Federation.

I'll set the time period for the borg as them being at the height maybe a few weeks before the engage S74652 for the first time.

Even assuming the Borg could completely assimilate and employ every piece of technology the ISD possess, they still require time to deploy it throughout the Collective. How long this would theoritically take is uncertain. Presumeably the Borg Collective is layed out in such a fashion that new and useful technologies can be quickly distributed throughout the entire Collective. However, given the sheer size of the Collective, even a highly efficient method of doing this would still take a significant amount of time.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2004-01-18 03:40pm

lol the Borg would win because Zsinj is so damn stupid that he lost his almost two SSD's and many ships vs. 1 x-wing squad and 4 or 5 old rebel ships

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-01-18 04:19pm

Maybe, but if you took the entire modern US army, and pitted it against a bunch of cannibals with a bazooka, I think they'd win even if they were commanded by the most incompetent leader possible!

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-01-18 04:36pm

Lex wrote:lol the Borg would win because Zsinj is so damn stupid that he lost his almost two SSD's and many ships vs. 1 x-wing squad and 4 or 5 old rebel ships

Actually Solo had at least a dozen ships,: 3 three mon cals, a couple of stardestroyers. He had 22 fighter squads IIRC. Which included two of the best damned X-Wing squads ever to graced the void.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-01-19 02:14am

What are Zsinj's forces?

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2004-01-19 03:44am

The Imperial Warlord Zsinj is said by the Core Rulebook to have conquered a third of the galaxy; in The Courtship of Princess Leia it is said that the New Republic would probably not win its way as deep into his territory as Dathomir for ten years. His fleet orbiting Dathomir appeared to include a Super Star Destroyer and "dozens of old Victory-class models and escort frigates", and he was able to summon at least fourteen Star Destroyers to reinforce this position.

PUBLIUS

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-19 12:53pm

Ender wrote:Actually, while I can't speak for the other rates, Nukes are taught the manufacturing process, in very general terms, but the old books we still have access to (Navy changed our clearances but not our libraries, go figure) are rather specific. So they have some idea. It is likely that the Imperials do as well.

If nothing else, even if the Borg couldn't assimilate whole chunks, they could assimilate enought to improve certain properties of their own stuff.

I know how automobile engines are manufactured in a general sense, but sure as hell I couldn't build one. I know the general processes, but nothing particularly specific. To what extent do US Navy personnel know the process of manufacturing, say, a SSN?

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2004-01-19 03:59pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Lex wrote:lol the Borg would win because Zsinj is so damn stupid that he lost his almost two SSD's and many ships vs. 1 x-wing squad and 4 or 5 old rebel ships
Actually Solo had at least a dozen ships,: 3 three mon cals, a couple of stardestroyers. He had 22 fighter squads IIRC. Which included two of the best damned X-Wing squads ever to graced the void.

Oh come on Zsinj lost because the writers had to make the rebels win.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-01-19 05:22pm

Lex wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
Lex wrote:lol the Borg would win because Zsinj is so damn stupid that he lost his almost two SSD's and many ships vs. 1 x-wing squad and 4 or 5 old rebel ships
Actually Solo had at least a dozen ships,: 3 three mon cals, a couple of stardestroyers. He had 22 fighter squads IIRC. Which included two of the best damned X-Wing squads ever to graced the void.
Oh come on Zsinj lost because the writers had to make the rebels win.

Whish unfoutunatley plauges the SW world. But assuming this is real and there are no "rebels alays win" writers, then Zsinj would have a very good chance of winning.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-01-19 05:28pm

It doesn't matter how stupid Zsinj is, if he is at all (I haven't read the X-Wing novels), his starships outclass anything in the Borg's inventory by orders of magnitude. This was not the case when he was at war with General Solo.

The usefulness of the captured Star Destroyer is little. It will give them an idea of what they'll face (if they are aware of Zsinj's coming) and they may be able to salvage some of its hull to make a handful of "super cubes". Otherwise, they are in the same situation as before: screwed beyond a doubt.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-19 07:41pm

Ender wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:It's extremely unlikely the crew of a modern submarine could understand, never mind build, the entire infrastructure required to create the submarine in the first place.
Actually, while I can't speak for the other rates, Nukes are taught the manufacturing process, in very general terms, but the old books we still have access to (Navy changed our clearances but not our libraries, go figure) are rather specific. So they have some idea. It is likely that the Imperials do as well.

You need a lot more than that to actually design a nuke. I actually worked in a nuclear power plant for a while, and know quite a bit about their design, but that doesn't mean I could sit down and design one myself. I didn't specialize in that area, and there are many, many layers of expertise which are quietly glossed over in the kind of books you're talking about.

If nothing else, even if the Borg couldn't assimilate whole chunks, they could assimilate enought to improve certain properties of their own stuff.

They might get a lot of good ideas, which would be useful to them if they had demonstrated the ability to innovate. However, this is in serious doubt, given their abysmal performance against S-8472 (six months of the entire Borg Collective's work outperformed by the Voyager holo-doc in a couple of hours).