The One Ring in the Star Wars galaxy

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2004-01-17 06:42pm

Let us say for a moment that Sauron, the Ring, and the land of Mordor are transplanted to a remote world on the Outer Rim. Well ok, the Ring ends up on the other side of the galaxy, as far as possible from the Morder planet as it can be if it's to be within the galaxy.

A Star Destroyer drops out of hyperspace near the planet where the Ring is found, and a survey team finds it.

What then? Can the Ring successfully get back to Sauron? Will it end up with Vader or Palpy, and if so, what will they do with it/what will become of them? Will it end up somehow with Yoda or Obi-wan, and how would it affect them?

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-01-17 06:51pm

Palpatine with the One Ring would be as bad for the galaxy as Sauron getting it would have been for Middle Earth.

Given that it amplifies one's innate abilities and powers, and lends increased control over others, Palpatine would be utterly unstoppable.

Sauron has little to no chance of getting it back. He's stuck on one world with a very low tech base.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-17 06:55pm

Sauron doesn't need to go after the Ring, it tries to get back to him. Unless Palpatine is Sauron, the Ring is useless to him and he will either perish or lose it eventually, such is its love for its master.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-01-17 06:59pm

unless of course palpatine figures out a way to mess with the ring's nature via sith wizardry. unlikely, but a possibility.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2004-01-17 07:21pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Unless Palpatine is Sauron, the Ring is useless to him and he will either perish or lose it eventually, such is its love for its master.

Wrong, it is stated that someone of sufficient stature could wrest the Ring from Sauron and become its new master. The effect for Sauron would be the same as if the Ring were destroyed, because he would be completely and permanently divorced from its power. If there was a real possibility that Gandalf could claim the Ring and take Sauron's place, then it seems to me Palpatine has a pretty good shot at it.

Now, it is true that until Palpatine masters the Ring, it will seek to return to Sauron. Whoever found the Ring would be reluctant to give it up, and the captain of the stardestoryer would likely claim it as soon as he saw it, so who knows what sort of chaos the Ring might cause onboard a ship. It is possible that the Ring might somehow make its way to the planet Mordor without falling into the hands of Palpatine or Vader. And it is also possible that Palpatine might bring about his own downfall before he truly masters the Ring, either due to overconfidence, a fault he suffered anyway which and might be exacerbated by the Ring, or by figuring out what the Ring was and going off to face down Sauron prematurely. However, I think it more likely that he would be able to wield it, gradually learning of its true powers, and would become unstoppable.

If Vader found it, he would probably challenge Palpatine, but I never got the impression that Vader was particularly strong willed, so I am not sure he would be able to master the Ring.

Would Palpatine be able to sense Sauron? It seems to me that a great angelic power would make a pretty big impression of the force. How likely is it that Palpatine would sense something off and send someone to investigate?

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2004-01-17 07:33pm

and Palpy and the Ring keep on corrupting each other forever.

Corrupted corruptors corrupting corrupted corruptors!

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-17 07:33pm

If a Jedi gets ahold of it, it's gone. SW tech is adequate to destroy the ring.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-01-17 07:36pm

or at the very least put it somewhere that nobody'll be able to reach it.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-01-17 08:52pm

Joe wrote:If a Jedi gets ahold of it, it's gone. SW tech is adequate to destroy the ring.

Assuming that Jedi is able to resist the dark side in it's strongest manifestation, of course.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-01-17 09:06pm

Vendetta wrote:
Joe wrote:If a Jedi gets ahold of it, it's gone. SW tech is adequate to destroy the ring.
Assuming that Jedi is able to resist the dark side in it's strongest manifestation, of course.

But Janeway's not a part of this.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-01-17 10:44pm

I'm sure the commanding officer aboard the Star Destroyer would be positively infaturated with the idea of turning invisible whenever he wishes, and would hide its existance from anyone. Assuming he would be able to hold onto it long enough, he would experience the benefits of an unnaturally long life.

In other words, there's no effect at all to anyone anywhere except this one lucky dude. If Palpatine got the Ring, he'd probably keep it as some sort of odd trophy with invisibility powers; if he discovered its life-increasing abilities I'm sure he'd use it all the time.

Sauron has no effect on any of this. He's stranded at the ass-end of the universe. It is likely that--no matter how hard the Ring tries to get itself back--the Ring will never become Sauron's again.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-01-18 12:43am

Either that, or once Palpy has the ring, he realises it wants back to Sauron, so he takes the ring to Middle Earth on a Super Star Destroyer, makes sure it can 'see' what's happening, and orders a BDZ operation, starting on Mount Doom

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2004-01-18 01:03am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I'm sure the commanding officer aboard the Star Destroyer would be positively infaturated with the idea of turning invisible whenever he wishes, and would hide its existance from anyone. Assuming he would be able to hold onto it long enough, he would experience the benefits of an unnaturally long life.

In other words, there's no effect at all to anyone anywhere except this one lucky dude. If Palpatine got the Ring, he'd probably keep it as some sort of odd trophy with invisibility powers; if he discovered its life-increasing abilities I'm sure he'd use it all the time.

Sauron has no effect on any of this. He's stranded at the ass-end of the universe. It is likely that--no matter how hard the Ring tries to get itself back--the Ring will never become Sauron's again.

Unless the Nazgul discover force powers.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-01-18 08:59am

Johonebesus wrote:or by figuring out what the Ring was and going off to face down Sauron prematurely.

Sauron with the ring was taken out by Elendil and Gil-Galad. No disrespect to them, but AFAIK they're nowhere near the combat abilities of a normal Sith Lord, never mind Palpatine himself. Palpatine couldn't really do it prematurely, because he'd be quite able to defeat Sauron himself, never mind needing the ring.

How likely is it that Palpatine would sense something off and send someone to investigate?

Quite probable. Perhaps the likes of Jerec would be sent.

Col. Stele · Post by **Col. Stele** » 2004-01-18 11:18am

It could hold serious ramifications if either a Jedi or a Sith got a hold of it. I think it corrupt both of them.

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2004-01-18 10:00pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I'm sure the commanding officer aboard the Star Destroyer would be positively infaturated with the idea of turning invisible whenever he wishes, and would hide its existance from anyone. Assuming he would be able to hold onto it long enough, he would experience the benefits of an unnaturally long life.

Thats what it does to a hobit, and they have a huge natural immunity to the ring's influence. In humans, elves, the river folk (Gollum), etc it seems to have a much more powerful influence, and I don't doubt that said Star Destoryer captain would be planning a coup before the month was up, thats if it doesn't touch off a mutiny on the Star Destoryer.

As to Palpatine with the ring, I don't doubt that he's extremely powerful, but he's still a mortal, unlike Gandalf or Sauruman. He might be able to use it much more effectivly than the average Joe, but it would be the ring that dominated him, not vice versa. It would definitly suck to be in the SW universe if he got the ring, though.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2004-01-18 10:18pm

I expect Palpatine would be powerful enough to master it, possibly making him invincible. Vader might be able to do it, too, but i find it more likely the ring would dominate him rather than the other way around. If Yoda got it somehow, I think he'd be able to see it for what it is, resist it, and probably destroy it somehow. Maybe Obi-Wan could too, but that's doubtful. If young Luke gets it, though, I expect he'd succumb almost instantly unless warned first. Then it would take a few days, probably.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-01-19 07:47am

Symmetry wrote: As to Palpatine with the ring, I don't doubt that he's extremely powerful, but he's still a mortal,

Is he? He has returned from death on at least one occasion.

unlike Gandalf or Sauruman.

Both would die (IE their spirits would be unable to return) if killed,

[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, (#156)] wrote:"By 'incarnate' I mean they were embodied in physical bodies capable of pain, and weariness, and of afflicting the spirit with physical fear, and of being 'killed', though supported by the angelic spirit they might endure long, and only show slowly the wearing of care and labour."

It was only via the personal intervention of Eru that Gandalf was returned to Eä.

[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, (#156)] wrote:Gandalf really 'died', and was changed: for that seems to me the only real cheating, to represent anything that can be called 'death' as making no difference... He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or govenors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. 'Naked I was sent back- for a brief time, until my task is done'.

More on this topic here.

In comparison Palpatine has demonstrated the ability to be physically killed and take on a new body on his own, independant of a higher entity. Palpatine is closer to immortal than the Istari were when sent to Middle Earth.

He might be able to use it much more effectivly than the average Joe, but it would be the ring that dominated him, not vice versa. It would definitly suck to be in the SW universe if he got the ring, though.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-01-19 08:01am

However, it would be important to remark that the Istari had been seriously limited in the use of their powers and could not create new bodies for themselves in the short term, while un-limited Maiar can.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-01-19 08:10am

Murazor wrote:However, it would be important to remark that the Istari had been seriously limited in the use of their powers and could not create new bodies for themselves in the short term, while un-limited Maiar can.

Nothing suggests they could even if they wanted to. The link above has quotes stating that Gandalf's spirit was quite banished from Eä and not able to return. Indeed, we've seen quite a number of Maia killed, balrogs, and so on. The only one we've ever actually seen return of his own will is Sauron, and he seems to be bound to Eä by his ring. In the case of Balrogs, Istari and possibly even Valar, although this is unproven, having the bodies that house their spirits (Something quite important in the works of Tolkien) destroyed, utterly screws them.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-01-19 10:10am

Balrogs can be killed because in their evil, they have been punished by Eru and are limited to their physical forms. The Istari can be killed because their powers were limited by the Valar in their quest against Sauron.
But there is NO WAY IN HELL in which any of the Valar can be "screwed" by destroying his body, with the only exception of Morgoth. In the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales (I'll check later) it appears very clear that Morgoth managed to fool Tulkas and the maiar that were looking for him by turning inmaterial. When he meet with Ungoliant he adopted the body he had used as Lord of Utumno and from that moment he lost the power to change his body. But no other of the Valar has such a limitation.
In the case of Sauron, he could change his form even before the creation of the Ring so... try again.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-01-19 10:24am

Murazor wrote: In the case of Sauron, he could change his form even before the creation of the Ring so... try again.

An ability he lost.

And indeed, in his battle with Huan, if he was in no danger when in physical combat, why was he so desperate to flee? Certainly the Hound of Valinor was quite the dog, but was he up to capturing incaporeal spirits?

Incidentally, you will note that injuries inflicted on one Sauron form ('dripping blood from his throat upon the trees' and 'He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand'.) carry on to others, a strange limitation of Ainur shape changing abilities wouldn't you agree? And, incidentally, it would indicate that no amount of shape changing will heal them if you cut off their head.

You go and find me an Ainur (Bar Sauron and Gandalf) being physically destroyed and coming back then.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-01-19 11:44am

Morgoth. It is pretty much clear that at the end of the days (Dagor Dagorath) Melkor will return with his full power and the world will be undone.
You may add that generating a body seems to take his time if there is no outside help and the former was destroyed for corrupted maiar.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-01-19 12:30pm

Palpatine would be deeply fascinated by the One Ring, which would basically fix his extreme problem with vastly weak clone hosts for his consciousness.

As for Vader, according to ROTJ novelisation, he rivaled Palpatine in power by ROTJ.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-01-19 04:43pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Palpatine would be deeply fascinated by the One Ring, which would basically fix his extreme problem with vastly weak clone hosts for his consciousness.

Assuming he could discover that ability of the Ring's. I'm not sure how he would go about doing that.

As for Vader, according to ROTJ novelisation, he rivaled Palpatine in power by ROTJ.

You mean he rivaled Palpatine in Force powers?