How to defeat the Dominion in 7 days.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-19 01:30pm

The Jem'Hadar depend heavily on a substance named "Ketracel-white" (K-w), which is distributed to them by the Vortar, but produced by the Founders.
I haven't found any data on where it is produced, but I would assume that the composition is a closely guarded secret, thus there will not be many "factories". So I figured the easiest way to seriously kick the Dominions butt would be to take out the depots, maybe even the factories, if their location can be determined. Even if they are heavily guarded, it would only be a matter of jumping in, firing all guns on the depot and jumping out.

Now: Who can tell me why this won't work.
Do you have any data or estimates on the number or size of the depots?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-01-19 02:36pm

GySgt. Hartman wrote:The Jem'Hadar depend heavily on a substance named "Ketracel-white" (K-w), which is distributed to them by the Vortar, but produced by the Founders.
I haven't found any data on where it is produced, but I would assume that the composition is a closely guarded secret, thus there will not be many "factories". So I figured the easiest way to seriously kick the Dominions butt would be to take out the depots, maybe even the factories, if their location can be determined. Even if they are heavily guarded, it would only be a matter of jumping in, firing all guns on the depot and jumping out.

Now: Who can tell me why this won't work.
Do you have any data or estimates on the number or size of the depots?

Well, the intellegence gathering to find the exact location of all the depots will take more then 7 days. They have a lot of planets and a planet is a very big place to hide something as small as a single factory. Plus that is discounting that they could be in deep space space tations, on uninhabited moons, asteroids, etc.

Far easier to just BDZ the lot of them in a single blitzkrieg. Quicker too.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-19 03:02pm

Maybe you want to save the planets - what is the good in being Emperor in a galaxy of slagworlds?
I don't think it should be too hard to track the supply ships to their point of origin (if you bring in intel specialists). Tracking the factories will probably be harder, but there has to be quite an amount of traffic between their military bases and the depots.
I only need to know
- how many depots there are
- if this would work.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-01-19 03:06pm

GySgt. Hartman wrote:Maybe you want to save the planets - what is the good in being Emperor in a galaxy of slagworlds?
I don't think it should be too hard to track the supply ships to their point of origin (if you bring in intel specialists). Tracking the factories will probably be harder, but there has to be quite an amount of traffic between their military bases and the depots.
I only need to know
- how many depots there are
- if this would work.

Unknown.

The quickest method would be to eliminate the founders, which supply the white. Once they are gone the supply will drain and then they will go mad and eventually kill themselves.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-01-19 03:08pm

Trouble is that at the start of the DS9 season 6, they blew up what was implied to be the Dominion's only Ketracel White supply depot in the Alpha quadrent. I don't know if the Dominion were able to get another supply operation up and running, but there was definately a shortage, and Damar said that as a last resort, they should slaughter the Jem'Hadar.

In short, while it would be inconvienent for the Dominion, it'd probably be easier to destroy the Jem'Hadar outright.

A better plan would be to find the Founder's homeworld, send an ISD there, then contact as many Vorta as possible and threaten to BZD the planet. Since the Vorta think of the founders as gods, I think they'd surrender pretty quickly!

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-19 03:53pm

It always thought the Founder's planet was really hard to find. If it could be done easily, it would surely be an option, but I want to find an alternate plan.

The supply depots should stock quite a lot of the stuff, since they probably don't want to refill it every day. So the destruction of all their depots should put them at a serious shortage, since they are probably not prepared to refill al their depots at once.
This will kill off most of the Jem'Hadar, leaving the dominion largely unprotected and open to attacks, hopefully forcing them to surrender.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-01-19 04:45pm

GySgt. Hartman wrote:It always thought the Founder's planet was really hard to find. If it could be done easily, it would surely be an option, but I want to find an alternate plan.

And why would finding all of the Dominion's "White" depots and factories be substantially easier? Surely the Founders know that the supply train for the drug is a high-value strategic target and will have taken measures to keep the depots secret.

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2004-01-19 06:01pm

You dont need to find all of them.

Finding most in a certain area would be quite effective in weakening Dominion forces in that region.

Question: Are the factories (producing "white") mobile or on planets?

Because if they are immobile it would be a lot easier to find them (and destroy them).

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-19 06:27pm

Well, the Feds found the one in the Alpha Quad., so it can't be that hard. They are probably visited by starships a lot more often that the factories, since the factories give it out only to the transports bringing it to the depots, but the depots distribute it directly to the Jem'Hadar warships.
(Al least according to my speculations).

I have never seen a factory, but the depot in "A time to stand" was on an asteroid of sorts.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-01-19 07:49pm

You're comparing apples to oranges. The Dominion only had one depot in the AQ. In the GQ they probably have several (considering it's size) and they'd pretty quickly catch onto the Empire's tactics (unless the Empire was able to destroy every single plant and depot simultaneously) and keep the supply moving around, presumably on cargo ships, or even warships.

Mind you, in the first episode where we saw Weyoun, didn't he have some kind of device that replicated Ketracel White? If he did, that would explain why the supply problem never became critical after the depot's destruction, but there was still a shortfall.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-19 08:51pm

DaveJB wrote:[...]unless the Empire was able to destroy every single plant and depot simultaneously[...]

Indeed, anything less wuldn't make sense. First find out where they are, then destroy them all in coordinated strikes. Rretreat, wait for a few days until their supplies run out, then return and mop up.

Mind you, in the first episode where we saw Weyoun, didn't he have some kind of device that replicated Ketracel White?

I only saw him having a small supply, not a replicator. Presumably every unit would have some K-w in stock, that is why I would wait a few days, then return when their supply has run out.

Myrmidon · Post by **Myrmidon** » 2004-01-20 01:28am

Hello, I just joined. Interesting board.

I think that another way to cripple the Dominion would be to blockade different occupied sectors until the sector ran out of white and self destructed. You could manipulate them that way, forcing them to shift assets to points of your choosing, where locally superior forces could jump in and wipe them out. The bigger the Dominion got, the worse their problem would get until they were effectively contained by their own size.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-20 01:40am

That would be unnecessary given the awesome power of the Empire. With superior firepower the Empire can swiftly crush the Dominion in a few major fleet engagements while sustaining relatively fewer losses.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-20 06:25am

I don't see how you can efiiciently blockade a whole sector. Before they will self-destruct, they will surely attack your blockade and you have a major fleet engagemant. You can have that more easily.
I was looking to minimize the number of ships necessary to defeat the dominion.

Does anybody know how the Founders guard their homeworld and what measures they take to assure that it stays hidden? (speculations welcome)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-20 01:00pm

They move around a lot. In TDiC, they had moved their entire population to a different world to escape the Romulan/Cardassian fleet, and they left a hundred or so ships nearby to attack them when they showed up.

But if you can figure out where they are at any given time, they don't seem to have much in the way of defenses.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-20 07:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:They move around a lot. In TDiC, they had moved their entire population to a different world to escape the Romulan/Cardassian fleet, and they left a hundred or so ships nearby to attack them when they showed up.

They do this all the time? I was under the impression that it was part of their elaborate scheme.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-20 08:05pm

GySgt. Hartman wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:They move around a lot. In TDiC, they had moved their entire population to a different world to escape the Romulan/Cardassian fleet, and they left a hundred or so ships nearby to attack them when they showed up.
They do this all the time? I was under the impression that it was part of their elaborate scheme.

I don't know if they do it all the time, but the fact that they were willing to do it at all, presumably on short notice, suggests that they continually prepared to do so at any time.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-01-20 08:09pm

Darth Wong wrote: I don't know if they do it all the time, but the fact that they were willing to do it at all, presumably on short notice, suggests that they continually prepared to do so at any time.

True, but remember that Odo was drawn to the Omarion Nebula and he had been gone for several centuries, suggesting at least that they hadn't moved around in quite some time, nor would they be eager to as the rest of the hundred baby changelings they sent out had their "DNA coded" to return to the Omarion Nebula several centuries later.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-20 08:36pm

The Kernel wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I don't know if they do it all the time, but the fact that they were willing to do it at all, presumably on short notice, suggests that they continually prepared to do so at any time.
True, but remember that Odo was drawn to the Omarion Nebula and he had been gone for several centuries, suggesting at least that they hadn't moved around in quite some time, nor would they be eager to as the rest of the hundred baby changelings they sent out had their "DNA coded" to return to the Omarion Nebula several centuries later.

They returned because of "DNA coding?" Is that honestly in the script? What, they have biological astronavigation equipment built into them?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-01-20 08:45pm

Darth Wong wrote: They returned because of "DNA coding?" Is that honestly in the script? What, they have biological astronavigation equipment built into them?

Yes, that's honestly in the script. Check The Search Part II in Season 3 of DS9 for the exact quote.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-20 08:50pm

Darth Wong wrote:, but the fact that they were willing to do it at all, presumably on short notice, suggests that they continually prepared to do so at any time.

Being prepared to flee and actually changing their home planet every so often are two different things. They presumably live deep within Dominion territory, surrounded by on of the strongest fleets in that galaxy, so they don't have much to fear. In addition, IIRC, the Dominion infiltrated both the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar in order to provoke this attack in the first place, so this should have given them more than enough time to plan their escape and set the trap.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-01-21 07:17pm

The Kernel wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: I don't know if they do it all the time, but the fact that they were willing to do it at all, presumably on short notice, suggests that they continually prepared to do so at any time.
True, but remember that Odo was drawn to the Omarion Nebula and he had been gone for several centuries, suggesting at least that they hadn't moved around in quite some time, nor would they be eager to as the rest of the hundred baby changelings they sent out had their "DNA coded" to return to the Omarion Nebula several centuries later.

The "need to come home" (perhaps better explained as the instinct to be with others of the same kind) was built in.

It might be possible, that large quantities of founders assembled could work like a homing-beacon for one of their missing children (on a subconscious level - telepathy?) as soon as it is within a certain reach.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-22 12:23pm

Actually Darth Wong may be right after all. I just watched "Broken Link", and the female Founder said to Sisko: "However, I am sure you understand my reluctance to reveal the location of our new home."
They indeed seem to move around at least once in a while. That would again make it seem easier to discover their depots and take them out in a single surprise strike that go looking for their homeworld.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2004-01-22 06:08pm

I expect a better way to defeat the Dominion than going after the white depots, which must be really well guarded, given their importance, would be to develop a biological weapon that only attacks Jem Hadar. It could be DNA specific, since the Jem Hadar are all clones anyway.

I believe some one episode wonder in a TNG episode did something similar in some sort of clan wars. Some blond woman that Riker had a thing for could kill guys of a certain clan by touching them, since she was a carrier for the disease her clan made.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-01-22 07:56pm

Trogdor wrote:I expect a better way to defeat the Dominion than going after the white depots, which must be really well guarded, given their importance, would be to develop a biological weapon that only attacks Jem Hadar. It could be DNA specific, since the Jem Hadar are all clones anyway.

I believe some one episode wonder in a TNG episode did something similar in some sort of clan wars. Some blond woman that Riker had a thing for could kill guys of a certain clan by touching them, since she was a carrier for the disease her clan made.

What you're suggesting would be hugely impractical. The only possible way it could work would be if the Empire infiltrated the Ketracel White factories and contaminated them with such a bioweapon. Also, since White is a potential Achilles heel, you'd have thought that the Dominion would check what's produced (not claiming they DO, but it seems logical).

Here's a modern world comparison: The US Army is going to invade a small island where the local Army has conducted a coup. You massively outnumber them in resources and weaponry. Which of these two options do you undertake?

1) Develop a Bio-Weapon, deliver it to the island (let's say by dropping it from a plane), wait for it to take effect and then invade the island when it does.
2) Conduct a full-scale invasion.

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How to defeat the Dominion in 7 days.

How to defeat the Dominion in 7 days.

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