Real Headz....

[Col. Crackpot]

But I should inform that as a conservative Republican with mild Liberterian leanings and fascist tendencies, I am totally against things such as wellfare and other parasitic programmes.

and to think there was a time when i didn't like you. shame on me.

[revprez]

I'm afraid, Spanky, that "revprez" is right. It is a word as Dictionary.com says. I doubt I'll find it in the OED though.

People make new words with their culture or specialisation. Some are stupid and die out, others are cool and stay on. Language by the people, for the people.

From the OED

Slangism: A slang expression. Also slangist, slangster, one who uses slang. slanguage, slangy speech; a form of slang (jocular). slangular a., pertaining to slang (jocular).

[InnerBrat]

yes, because education should only be distributed according to parent's wealth, not according to academic ability

[revprez]

Not to take this too far off the original topic (though I think that's inevitable now), what exactly is the student tuition fee system like in the US?

Well, there's tuition, fees and housing. Tuition in four year schools by far makes up the bulk of the expense, ranging from $10k (in state schools to $40k a year (here at MIT and I guess most of the Ivies).

I know that the US has the best universities in the world, but I've never really got my head around the costs and general state of paying for the education.

Graduating from college is God's way of telling you you're going to make to much money. Seriously, the cost of higher education in this country has skyrocketed for any number of reasons. I haven't looked at private schools (go figure), but in state schools there is definitely a correlation between tuition and the fiscal health of the state government.

Any help would be appreciated.

Rev Prez

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I don't know what a Stafford is because I don't have one, yes. I'm going to school on my trust fund.

I apologise for sounding like such a dick. I got a little too worked up, but that's not really much of an excuse: I'm still to blame for it.

[Zaia]

Not to take this too far off the original topic (though I think that's inevitable now), what exactly is the student tuition fee system like in the US?

I know that the US has the best universities in the world, but I've never really got my head around the costs and general state of paying for the education.

Any help would be appreciated.

It's hard to generalize because tuition varies so much from school to school. Community colleges (2-year schools) are generally about $2,500 a year in tuition and fees, whereas a school like Johns Hopkins/Peabody Conservatory runs about $40,000 a year. Of course, there are in-betweens, state schools run anywhere from $8,000-$15,000 a year, and less prestigious private schools generally run around $25,000 a year.

Some schools offer completely scholarships, where tuition, fees, and living expenses are paid for, but these are few and far between. Private schools, like Johns Hopkins, usually award some financial assitance to students (usually around 25% of tuition fees), but the rest of that has to come from either your wallet (if you have a trust fund, basically), your parents' wallet, or from the government, who will loan or give you money, depending on how much you (meaning your family) has.

They figure out what you should get from the government by looking at your parents' taxes for the past few years, and the government works out what it thinks your parents should be able to pay for you, and then awards/loans money based on that. Stafford loans are student loans, that the student takes out his/herself in his/her name to pay for college. Plus loans are the loans parents take out to help pay for college (these are usually MUCH more money than Staffords). Pell grants are like scholarships, awarded to students who have academic ability but not enough income to pay for school. These are grants, so they don't have to be paid back. You do have to keep a certain grade average to keep them, though.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's hard to generalize because tuition varies so much from school to school. Community colleges (2-year schools) are generally about $2500 a year in tuition and fees, whereas a school like Johns Hopkins/Peabody Conservatory runs about $40,000 a year.

Some schools offer completely scholarships, where tuition, fees, and living expenses are paid for, but these are few and far between. Private schools, like Johns Hopkins, usually award some financial assitance to students (usually around 25% of tuition fees), but the rest of that has to come from either your wallet (if you have a trust fund, basically), your parents' wallet, or from the government, who will loan or give you money, depending on how much you (meaning your family) has.

The figure out what you should get from the government by looking at your parents' taxes for the past few years, and the government works out what it thinks your parents should be able to pay for you, and then awards/loans money based on that. Stafford loans are student loans, that I take out myself in my name to pay for college. Plus loans are the loans my parents take out to help me pay for college (these are usually MUCH more money than Staffords). Pell grants are like scholarships, awarded to students who have academic ability but not enough income to pay for school. These are grants, so they don't have to be paid back. You do have to keep a certain grade average to keep them, though.

Ah, I'm with you.

At the moment there is a very heated debate with the PM about tuition fees which he proposes to increase from the base rate of £1100 a year for say a BSc. (Hons) to around three grand, though some universities such as the larger and more prominent ones like Oxbridge or Imperial could charge tens of thousands for richer students.

The thing is, Labour said they would not raise fees after the grants system was scrapped. And now they've just done a 180.

I have to get my tuition fees from the Student Loans Company owned by the government. I get roughly £10k to cover everything and that is paid back at the standard rate of interest once you start earning more than £15k a year in a job. My parents are helping with my accomodation, but other than those loans, I pay everything else with a summer job or in the future if I get a decent salary going. I was hoping to get sponsored or intend on working with the gov't after uni to get subsidised on these fees.

In anycase, I'd love the opportunity to visit an American university and see how it compares, but I doubt I could afford any of the upper-class ones, hell, affording what I have now is a strain on myself and my parents (God help them if my bro does go to Imperial College to do forensics).

[Zaia]

AV, you should look into the sorts of financial assistance programs they have for overseas students here, just to be sure. I know in Australia they don't award any money to exchange students (boo), but I don't think it's the same case here. I haven't looked in detail, but I've had a number of friends from overseas who I believe got financial assistance. May have been directly from the school, though, and not from the government. I don't remember.

Oh, and I added more stuff to my post while you were responding to it, just so you know.

[Clone Sergeant]

Cool, what island you from?

St. Croix, United States Virgin Islands.

[revprez]

Cool, what island you from?

St. Croix, United States Virgin Islands.

Tight, I've got some people from there. St. Croix is rapidly becoming synonymous with heaven in the hip hop lexicon.

Rev Prez

[Lagmonster]

Ever try going for a job interview with a respectable firm while wearing hip-hop clothes? Ever wonder why you don't get hired? Hip-hop is the culture of people who want to forever pretend that they're kids in the ghetto. People grow out of it.

Reminds me of a guy they had to let go back at ADRI because he started acting like a dick (well, doing the whole I'm-a-ghetto-black-guy routine at work). We're talking about a 28 year old, well-educated person, here. Just up and decided to change his cultural appearance and actions. Well, he got canned. Why? Because you can't be a fucking moron when you're dealing with big money clients, that's why. He raised a big stink about how he was being discriminated against - a notion so absurd that it didn't get past a few laughs between management at the water fountain.

Business people don't respect your culture unless you're in marketing or the arts. They respect ability and presentability. If you talk and dress like an uneducated fool, people will not immediately believe you have ability.

[Lagmonster]

Well, you went and did it. You made a post that I cannot interpret one single line of.

not bad for an "ancient" 27-year old, eh?

Well, that gives me some hope. Then again, I see guys in their fifties running around acting like hoodlums from a James Dean movie, so I figure that in another decade or two I'll come back here, read your post, and understand it fluently.

[revprez]

Business people don't respect your culture unless you're in marketing or the arts.

So the lesson here is "when in Rome." A workplace, just like any other, has its cultural predilections and taboos. I can abide by the rules of this culture and get paid, or I can find some line of work that is more tolerant of my culture. Either way, it has nothing to do with how I dress, talk, or conduct myself on my free time insofar as by private life doesn't interfer my work life.

They respect ability and presentability. If you talk and dress like an uneducated fool, people will not immediately believe you have ability.

What does that have to do with my lifestyle outside of the workplace? There are countless young Black Americans gainfully employed in professional positions who are also active in the hip hop culture.

Rev Prez

[salm]

what do you have to do to be in the hip hop culture? is it enough to be fan of rap music, do you have to wear certain clothes or talk with this slang thingy? or do you have to grow up in certain circumstances?

[Chardok]

Forgive me for pot shotting this with my proverbial Barret, but How is Hip Hop classified as a "culture"? I would call it more of a transitent "phase" of adolescent/young adult development, whereupon passing, the adolescent/young adult looks back and says "Silly me!" and for those who don't make the transition, well, D Block is just off to your right, sir.

That or they become Nelly/Master P clones. Which is fine. We all need something to laugh at. Personally, I find it heartening to know that at any given moment I may turn on MTV or any radio station playing newer type music and see/hear grown men jumping about like fools, touting their "Bling bling", and the fact that they are better than every other rapper out there, and his hard life "Creepin' " up from the 'hood and making it big. "Wow!" Think I, "You act the fool on INTERNATIONAL TELEVISION! Thank you for showing our young people what they have to look forward to if they parrot you!" Personally, I never emulated anyone while I was coming up, Except maybe Duke from GI Joe (DIE COMMIE SCUM Was our battle cry as we rolled out in our imaginary tanks to go crush the vile snakes of the Soviet Union) [*ahem* Deference to Vympel, of course] and found it as hilarious then as I do now.

This is, of course, not to say there isn't a great deal of good entertainment on MTV and it's ilk. It just comes on after 10. (When the kids are in bed.)

[revprez]

what do you have to do to be in the hip hop culture? is it enough to be fan of rap music, do you have to wear certain clothes or talk with this slang thingy? or do you have to grow up in certain circumstances?

Culture isn't a club, its a set of symbols, beliefs, and practices. There's no membership requirements.

Rev Prez

[salm]

Culture isn't a club, its a set of symbols, beliefs, and practices. There's no membership requirements.

Rev Prez

well, sure, what do people do who are considered to be in the hip hop culture? i guess listening to wagner, wearing pants made out of leafs and dancing calypso is not part of it.

[revprez]

Forgive me for pot shotting this with my proverbial Barret, but How is Hip Hop classified as a "culture"?

It's just a label given to an offshoot of Black and Hispanic urban cultures with identifiable distinct customs, values, ideas and artifacts.

I would call it more of a transitent "phase" of adolescent/young adult development, whereupon passing, the adolescent/young adult looks back and says "Silly me!" and for those who don't make the transition, well, D Block is just off to your right, sir.

Except that's not what's happening. While the culture attracts predominantly young people, it is persistent through all age groups. Of course, there are some who chose later in life to discard the lifestyle.

That or they become Nelly/Master P clones.

Nelly and Master P are mainstream representatives of the culture, they do not reflect the interests of those more deeply involved in it.

Which is fine. We all need something to laugh at.

I'm sure hip hop is amusing to many people who don't share the same tastes as the fans. On the other hand, hip hop has recently overtaken rock and country on the Billboard. I wouldn't be surprised if most fans were amused by your tastes and interests; maybe even a little bit foolish.

Rev Prez

[revprez]

well, sure, what do people do who are considered to be in the hip hop culture?

Generally, they share an interest and knowledge of the music, and visual and performing arts backbone, a penetrating insight into the symbols and messages within hip hop communications, a world view that is decisively (but not necessarily) leftist, a strong sense of regional affiliation, and similar tastes in speech, entertainment and attire. That's just to name a few. Of course, these aren't strict requirements and subcultures within the hip hop community can be starkly different from each other.

i guess listening to wagner, wearing pants made out of leafs and dancing calypso is not part of it.

I haven't seen it, but if I did, I bet Bobby Digital would be behind it.

Rev Prez

[salm]

Generally, they share an interest and knowledge of the music, and visual and performing arts backbone, a penetrating insight into the symbols and messages within hip hop communications, a world view that is decisively (but not necessarily) leftist, a strong sense of regional affiliation, and similar tastes in speech, entertainment and attire. That's just to name a few. Of course, these aren't strict requirements and subcultures within the hip hop community can be starkly different from each other.

ah, ok, then i can´t see why so many people are bitching about it. who cares if a couple of people dress in a certain way, listen to a special kind of music and speak weird. where i come from there are a whole bunch of different dialects and most of them sound rediciolous if you don´t speak them yourself. a guy from saxonia for example sounds totally foolish to me but that doesn´t change anything about his character.
the only way i see to call part of the hip hop culture stupid would be by critisizing the messages in certain rap songs. people who listen to violence and hate promoting rap and acrually take it serious are a bunch of assholes. but that´s not hip hop dependand. any other type if music can be hate promoting as well.

[Darth Wong]

"Hip hop" dialect sounds just as retarded as redneck dialect. The only "dialect" which does not sound retarded is no dialect at all, ie- proper English.

[revprez]

"Hip hop" dialect sounds just as retarded as redneck dialect.

Really, and tell us how that is?

The only "dialect" which does not sound retarded is no dialect at all, ie- proper English.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Rev Prez

[revprez]

ah, ok, then i can´t see why so many people are bitching about it. who cares if a couple of people dress in a certain way, listen to a special kind of music and speak weird.

There could be many possible reasons. Perhaps some folks here have had a negative experience with people who express or purport to express the elements of the culture. There's a shitload of testimony in the wiggaz thread you might want to piece through.

the only way i see to call part of the hip hop culture stupid would be by critisizing the messages in certain rap songs. people who listen to violence and hate promoting rap and acrually take it serious are a bunch of assholes. but that´s not hip hop dependand. any other type if music can be hate promoting as well.

Well, they can always listen to the Roots or any of the other artists in the "conscious" subgenre.

Rev Prez

[Darth Wong]

"Hip hop" dialect sounds just as retarded as redneck dialect.

Really, and tell us how that is?

It is less communicative to a broad spectrum of people. Only a moron deliberately constructs sentences in such a manner as to make them more difficult to understand for a majority of people.

[General Zod]

leet is an excellent example of this. a good majority of the people that use leet on a frequent basis i've seen tend to be extremely immature. very little to no practical difference between those that use the slang prominent in hip hop.