Moderator: Edi
English is less communicative to pure Hindi speakers. What's your point?Darth Wong wrote:It is less communicative to a broad spectrum of people.
So now there's a conspiracy in Black America to promote a dialect just to confuse all the poor squares out there?Only a moron deliberately constructs sentences in such a manner as to make them more difficult to understand for a majority of people.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion.Darth_Zod wrote:leet is an excellent example of this. a good majority of the people that use leet on a frequent basis i've seen tend to be extremely immature. very little to no practical difference between those that use the slang prominent in hip hop.
Irrelevant. English is not a dialect of Hindi.revprez wrote:English is less communicative to pure Hindi speakers. What's your point?Darth Wong wrote:It is less communicative to a broad spectrum of people.
Not an organized conspiracy, but the deliberate use of words that have no easily intelligible meaning is hardly conducive to communication. Many English words are based on common word roots whose meaning can be easily derived. But nonsense-speak like "T dot" or "fo shizzle" are indecipherable unless somebody simply tells you or shows you what they're supposed to mean.So now there's a conspiracy in Black America to promote a dialect just to confuse all the poor squares out there?Only a moron deliberately constructs sentences in such a manner as to make them more difficult to understand for a majority of people.
Very well then. English is a descendent of Middle English, Middle English descends from Old English, and so on until the beginning of language. You may continue now.Darth Wong wrote:Irrelevant. English is not a dialect of Hindi.
They are if you know the dialect.Not an organized conspiracy, but the deliberate use of words that have no easily intelligible meaning is hardly conducive to communication.
"T dot" is slang within the dialect, as is "fo'shizzle." I've seen you use slang here, so are you a moron?Many English words are based on common word roots whose meaning can be easily derived. But nonsense-speak like "T dot" or "fo shizzle" are indecipherable unless somebody simply tells you or shows you what they're supposed to mean.
How's that?Unlike jargon, they add nothing whatsoever to the language.
What's that have to do with being moronic?They're not even legitimate time-savers, unlike slang-terms like "fuck".
If I grew up in North Philadelphia instead of suburban New Jersey, I'd have an easier time being understood and a much easier time fitting in with the majority of the people I interact with on a daily basis speaking in a "retarded" dialect than I would speaking standard English. Linguistically, there is nothing that makes urban (or any other) dialect inherently inferior to standard English--"Ebonics" has its own internally consistent set of rules, a full vocabulary, and a grammar, which makes it as legitimate a form of communication as the King's English. Standard Engish is vital to know because everyone can understand it, and there is a problem if you have a population of students who cannot readily use it, but that doesn't make hip-hop dialect "retarded".Darth Wong wrote:It is less communicative to a broad spectrum of people. Only a moron deliberately constructs sentences in such a manner as to make them more difficult to understand for a majority of people.revprez wrote:Really, and tell us how that is?Darth Wong wrote:"Hip hop" dialect sounds just as retarded as redneck dialect.
Did I ever use slang which was not understood by >90% of all English-speaking people?revprez wrote:I've seen you use slang here, so are you a moron?
In your case, it's not hard to prove that you're being moronic since you missed the entire point I made earlier about preferentially using language which is intelligible to the majority of English-speakers.What's that have to do with being moronic?
Yes, "fitting in" is precisely the point; it's about creating socially exclusive associations, not about adding anything constructive to the language. Even a word like "fuck" is actually useful; it saves time and its meaning is well-known.RedImperator wrote:If I grew up in North Philadelphia instead of suburban New Jersey, I'd have an easier time being understood and a much easier time fitting in with the majority of the people I interact with on a daily basis speaking in a "retarded" dialect than I would speaking standard English.
You could say the same thing about hillbilly dialect. If you want to split hairs, it sounds retarded, since it is correlated with people who have poor education levels (exceptions do not disprove the correlation). But whatever the exact description you want to apply, one does not make oneself sound intelligent by using those kinds of dialect.Linguistically, there is nothing that makes urban (or any other) dialect inherently inferior to standard English--"Ebonics" has its own internally consistent set of rules, a full vocabulary, and a grammar, which makes it as legitimate a form of communication as the King's English. Standard Engish is vital to know because everyone can understand it, and there is a problem if you have a population of students who cannot readily use it, but that doesn't make hip-hop dialect "retarded".
I don't know. Did you conduct a survey?Darth Wong wrote:Did I ever use slang which was not understood by >90% of all English-speaking people?
I'm hurtIn your case, it's not hard to prove that you're being moronic since you missed the entire point I made earlier about preferentially using language which is intelligible to the majority of English-speakers.
Sounds like you're ready to exclude anybody who doesn't speak your dialect.Darth Wong wrote:Yes, "fitting in" is precisely the point; it's about creating socially exclusive associations, not about adding anything constructive to the language. Even a word like "fuck" is actually useful; it saves time and its meaning is well-known.
Now there's something hard to argue with. I concede the point.You could say the same thing about hillbilly dialect. If you want to split hairs, it sounds retarded, since it is correlated with people who have poor education levels (exceptions do not disprove the correlation).
To say it's about creating socially exclusive situations would imply that the dialect was deliberately constructed so as to be unintelligible to outsiders, which isn't the case. It's simply the way people who live in certain areas talk.Darth Wong wrote:Yes, "fitting in" is precisely the point; it's about creating socially exclusive associations, not about adding anything constructive to the language. Even a word like "fuck" is actually useful; it saves time and its meaning is well-known.
To outsiders, yes, it does. Local dialects rarely sound intelligent to outsiders, which is why I don't say "youse" or pronounce water "wooder" during job interviews, even though that's how I speak in casual company. But why would this matter when communicating with insiders?You could say the same thing about hillbilly dialect. If you want to split hairs, it sounds retarded, since it is correlated with people who have poor education levels (exceptions do not disprove the correlation). But whatever the exact description you want to apply, one does not make oneself sound intelligent by using those kinds of dialect.
Actualy Indians are very good english speakers. In India English is a compulsary language in all schools and colleges. Even at Goverment level English is as widely used as Hindi since it is a common language understood by all in a multilangual(15 official languages) country. Every Indian I met speaks good english. Their accent and style is different from native speakers but they are fairly good.English is less communicative to pure Hindi speakers. What's your point?
hey, dem isch voll krass, alter!Dahak wrote:That hip hop stuff is rather tragic. We here in Germany have something like it, albeit with a Turkish origin.
well, the same counts for dialects. if you have a saxony accent you sound stupid. so what? that doesn´t mean that you neccessarily ARE stupid.The only thing you'll get from speaking in that hip hoppy kind of slang is, that other people will laugh at you, you lessen your chances of career success, and alieniate other people.
i wonder if these people do that with a large grain of self irony or if they´re actually serious. i mean someone who goes jetskiing in a fucking expensive as hell real fur coat can´t be all that serious about himself.Whenever I see guys like Nelly, 50 Cent, P Diddy(Puff Daddy, or whatever he calls himself nowadays...) I have to laugh. They think that just because the make huge amounts of money, they suddenly get all classy. A hint: Guys over-compensating with Bling-Bling are not cool.
í´m not so sure about that. because of the free unis people tend to take for ever to finish their uni and therefor are a lot older when they start working compared to brits, amis or dutch. this is even reinforced by german high schools having 13 grades and the year of military/social service you have to do. you also have to see that in countries with nonfree education systems there are usually way better methods to finance your uni, such as scholarships, loans, and whatever.And as a sidenote to the tuition: I'm happy I don't have to pay for tuition in Germany, since I couldn't afford those price tags in the US or Brittain...
Hey, willsch du mich hier krass produzieren, oder was?salm wrote:hey, dem isch voll krass, alter!Dahak wrote:That hip hop stuff is rather tragic. We here in Germany have something like it, albeit with a Turkish origin.
A saxon has a high chance of actually being brightwell, the same counts for dialects. if you have a saxony accent you sound stupid. so what? that doesn´t mean that you neccessarily ARE stupid.The only thing you'll get from speaking in that hip hoppy kind of slang is, that other people will laugh at you, you lessen your chances of career success, and alieniate other people.
)...
They seem very serious about themselves, they just need to show off their money and have that slight over-compensation problem...i wonder if these people do that with a large grain of self irony or if they´re actually serious. i mean someone who goes jetskiing in a fucking expensive as hell real fur coat can´t be all that serious about himself.Whenever I see guys like Nelly, 50 Cent, P Diddy(Puff Daddy, or whatever he calls himself nowadays...) I have to laugh. They think that just because the make huge amounts of money, they suddenly get all classy. A hint: Guys over-compensating with Bling-Bling are not cool.
Even if you'd have to pay for it, you won't get your degree in the famed 9 semesters (though if you can do without such pesky things as life...).í´m not so sure about that. because of the free unis people tend to take for ever to finish their uni and therefor are a lot older when they start working compared to brits, amis or dutch. this is even reinforced by german high schools having 13 grades and the year of military/social service you have to do. you also have to see that in countries with nonfree education systems there are usually way better methods to finance your uni, such as scholarships, loans, and whatever.
And as a sidenote to the tuition: I'm happy I don't have to pay for tuition in Germany, since I couldn't afford those price tags in the US or Brittain...
If I were as "moved" by other people's tastes, I'd say the same about anyone who listens to symphony, rock of any sort, easy listening, J-pop, and a whole assortment of other genres.MKSheppard wrote:Hip hoppers should be summarily shot, to improve the english language and the gene pool simultaneously
They promote that lifestyle because it sells big. That's their job. And we're only talking about a small subset of the genre, of course one that has the greatest appeal outside of the active community.Dahak wrote:They seem very serious about themselves, they just need to show off their money and have that slight over-compensation problem...
And when you actually design fashion for men with fur, you're very serious...
Except that rockers just die of cocaine overdoses surrounded by blondes,revprez wrote: If I were as "moved" by other people's tastes, I'd say the same about anyone who listens to symphony, rock of any sort, easy listening, J-pop, and a whole assortment of other genres.
I'd like to see a study tabulating rockers who die in the arms of more than one girl and those that die on the toilet.MKSheppard wrote:Except that rockers just die of cocaine overdoses surrounded by blondes,
while hip hoppers die in a hail of bullets as they try to "keep it real".
I'd like to see a study on the life expectancy of a ghetto boy, and therevprez wrote: I'd like to see a study tabulating rockers who die in the arms of more than one girl and those that die on the toilet.
I dunno, let's ask Snoop Dogg. He's survived very well, considering he used to be a Crip...MKSheppard wrote:I'd like to see a study on the life expectancy of a ghetto boy, and therevprez wrote: I'd like to see a study tabulating rockers who die in the arms of more than one girl and those that die on the toilet.
various ways he'll die in three years
Lets ask Tupac and Biggie Smalls insteadSAMAS wrote: I dunno, let's ask Snoop Dogg. He's survived very well, considering he used to be a Crip...
'Pac and Biggie were business.MKSheppard wrote:Lets ask Tupac and Biggie Smalls insteadSAMAS wrote: I dunno, let's ask Snoop Dogg. He's survived very well, considering he used to be a Crip...
