AT-TE is still in service

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-21 12:19pm

Mechs are BAD. Virtually anything is better than mechs.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-21 12:26pm

Howedar,
WTH then did everyone abandon tanks and etc. in favor of mech in Star Wars? Not only the republic guys - so the Separatists used big walking droids on Geonosis instead of AATs and the EU GATs.
Mechs have their advantages. For example, the AT-AT's able to open fire from a huge distance. Now if it would have been small, not 23m tall, any surface obstacle would make it impossible to strike from long distance.
And 'em tanks are useless, if you have really really rough terrain. Take the MT-AT walker for example - no tank would ever compare with it in climbing mountains.
Mechs have good sides.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-21 01:13pm

StarWars also has repulsorlifts that are amazingly reliable and effective, so much so that people get jump into speeders and have them not bounce or wobble on their drives, or those thin floating platforms of Coruscant that take a massive starship landing on them without so much as a dip. With repulsorlifts, you can have your vehicle raise it's height as to increase it's horizon, then dip back down below the horizon again; an option not available to the AT-AT. Plus, things like tanks that fire projectiles can do it on a ballistic arc, meaning they can fire over the horizon. Also, repulsorcraft can handle any environment a mecha can, plus a few that it can't, like open water and ground that can't afford alot of purchese, like many icefields.

And yes, Stas Bush, I do think poorly of Imperial Mecha. At Endor repulsorcraft would have been a much better option than chicken-walkers, as unlike mechas, they can't trip on things and don't need a flat stable surface to stand on, which in a dense forest can be tricky. All the things that are wrong with mechs are still wrong with them.

By the way, that is the damn silliest thing I've ever seen in my life. Gundams and AT-ATs may be bizarre in construction and concept, but at least they've got chutzpah. That thing doesn't even have dignity to it. My word, if any other franchise other than StarWars came up with that, this message board would never stop making fun of it. Who mans it? That thing is tiny, and I don't think the Empire allows midgets to enlist. That's not just a chicken-mech, that's a pigeon-mech. I bet it goes "Bwoing!" when it hops around, like Ein only less threatening

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-01-21 02:11pm

Hey now... the Big O goes "Bgown! Bgown!" when it walks!

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-01-21 02:30pm

I know why they weren't used in the battle of Hoth... the artists hadn't come with the model yet! Har har har

Anyway it's a really old model, I'd think they won't use AT-TEs anymore than they would use Acclamators or Jedi Fighters. Usually antiques are used by freelancers or rag-tag teams of soldiers - like Rebels - but the Empire would probably try to use the newer stuff.

At most the Empire could use obsolete capital ship designs, because if they are reliable enough, they wouldn't see a reason to dismantle them. But ground vehicles, fighters, etc they're more "disposable" stuff. Like the difference between a battleship and a bycicle.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-01-21 02:36pm

Slartibartfast wrote:I know why they weren't used in the battle of Hoth... the artists hadn't come with the model yet! Har har har

Just wait until the Super Special Editions of the OT, wise guy.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-21 02:59pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Hey now... the Big O goes "Bgown! Bgown!" when it walks!

The Big O is part mecha parody. But that thing above looks like it goes "bwoing" when it walks.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-01-21 05:09pm

neoolong wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:I know why they weren't used in the battle of Hoth... the artists hadn't come with the model yet! Har har har
Just wait until the Super Special Editions of the OT, wise guy.

You mean the one where they'll use Photoshop's Stretch function to make all the stormtroopers the same height?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-21 05:18pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Hey now... the Big O goes "Bgown! Bgown!" when it walks!
The Big O is part mecha parody. But that thing above looks like it goes "bwoing" when it walks.

I see nothing parodising in Big O whatsoever. Big O is definately an homage to the old super robot genre, and not a parody.

Oh and the sound is more like "bi-yong! bi-yong!"

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-01-21 07:23pm

Sure, let's argue onomonopia semantics now!

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2004-01-21 07:39pm

I think Big O's homage goes a bit farther back to giant robots. He's big, slow, fights in a city, and Roger even has a control watch.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-21 10:04pm

Those are super robots. Giant robots are like gundams and valkyries, etc...

And where the fuck have you been?

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2004-01-21 10:40pm

Actually I'm refering to a much older sub-section of such work like Tetsujin 28, Astroganger, Babil Junior, etc. These are the old guys before super robots. They were remote controlled or sometimes sentient and stomped around cities. Big O just has that style to it. Roger's watch is just like Giant Robo so that's one reason why I peg Big O with the older stuff. It just doesn't have the feel of the 70's stuff... but I digress...

P.S. I missed you too

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-01-21 11:33pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:*snip*

Virtually all of the target area, the volume, and the tonnage is dedicated to supporting and carrying troopers.

You tell me what its dedicated role is, and if it was just meant to be a mobile armored anti-armor gun what it'd look like.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-21 11:41pm

Gil Hamilton
With repulsorlifts, you can have your vehicle raise it's height as to increase it's horizon, then dip back down below the horizon again
Then please tell me, why the AAT and MTT repulsorlifts were so low on the ground?
I think not all repulsorlifts can reach high altitude.
Plus, things like tanks that fire projectiles can do it on a ballistic arc, meaning they can fire over the horizon.
Probably not a secret to you, the turbolaser cannon of the SPHA-T is a projectile weapon and has the ability to fire over horizon. Let me show:

Also, repulsorcraft can handle any environment a mecha can
Like Morpheus said: "Show me." Show me, how a low-altitude tank like AAT or GAT can fly up freaking high. Let's say, we have an obstacle - something like 8m wide chasm. Opps, not good? Oh well, let's make it a metre-high tree trunk (Endor). Again, repulsorlifts fail.
At Endor repulsorcraft would have been a much better option than chicken-walkers
Repulsorlift aircraft is impossible to operate given the dense and very high forest. Repulsor tanks - impossible to operate given a lot of tree obstacles. And tanks can't fly up to avoid them

The only repulsorthingie on Endor was the speeder bike. And even this one was quite dangerous to operate in the dense forest.
By the way, that is the damn silliest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Oh who would argue? But we need a reasonable explanation why did everyone start to use walking machines

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-21 11:43pm

Stas Bush wrote:Then please tell me, why the AAT and MTT repulsorlifts were so low on the ground?
I think not all repulsorlifts can reach high altitude.

The air taxies at Coruscant were thousands of meters up, and are roughly car-sized.

The reason we didn't see AATs and MTTs fly around high in the air is because when they were seen, they didn't have to.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-22 01:12am

Stas Bush wrote:Gil Hamilton
With repulsorlifts, you can have your vehicle raise it's height as to increase it's horizon, then dip back down below the horizon again
Then please tell me, why the AAT and MTT repulsorlifts were so low on the ground?
I think not all repulsorlifts can reach high altitude.

Given the strength of repulsorlifts in StarWars, there is no reason why they couldn't lift up higher. We've only seen them on open plains. They never needed to fly or over over things.

Plus, things like tanks that fire projectiles can do it on a ballistic arc, meaning they can fire over the horizon.
Probably not a secret to you, the turbolaser cannon of the SPHA-T is a projectile weapon and has the ability to fire over horizon. Let me show:
http://www.lab321.ru/~stas/sphat_cw2.jpg
http://www.lab321.ru/~stas/sphat_cw3.jpg
http://www.lab321.ru/~stas/sphat_cw4.jpg
Also, repulsorcraft can handle any environment a mecha can

Tell me, Stas Bush, what does the "T" in SPHA-T stand for? Refer to the Attack of the Clones movie for their actual performance, which isn't a projectile, but a beam weapon.

Like Morpheus said: "Show me." Show me, how a low-altitude tank like AAT or GAT can fly up freaking high. Let's say, we have an obstacle - something like 8m wide chasm. Opps, not good? Oh well, let's make it a metre-high tree trunk (Endor). Again, repulsorlifts fail.

8m chasm? No problem, it hovers across it, something a mecha can't do.
1m treetrunk? Is that all? it can dial up the power on the repulsorlift and just go up and over it. Meanwhile, a chicken-walker is requires an elaborate and complex series of sensors, servos, shocks, navigational computers, and constant pilot attention to make a step, let along walk over forest obstacles.

At Endor repulsorcraft would have been a much better option than chicken-walkers
Repulsorlift aircraft is impossible to operate given the dense and very high forest. Repulsor tanks - impossible to operate given a lot of tree obstacles. And tanks can't fly up to avoid them The only repulsorthingie on Endor was the speeder bike. And even this one was quite dangerous to operate in the dense forest.

Wrong, repulsorcraft can hover up, around, and over forest obstacles. Meanwhile, mechas are going to have ALOT of trouble in a forest with alot of debris and uneven surfaces. Besides, you are making a false dilemma. I'm saying repulsorcraft, which can mean alot of things. You seem to want us to decide between Trade Federation tanks and walkers, with no in-between. I grant that Trade Federation tanks wouldn't do well at Endor. Then again, Trade Federation vehicles didn't have much trouble dealing with the Gungan forest.

And the only reason that the speederbikes had such problems is that the pilots were trying to fight and pilot at the same time. Given how fast they were moving, they didn't do too bad, but had the misfortune of dealing with a Jedi.

By the way, that is the damn silliest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Oh who would argue? But we need a reasonable explanation why did everyone start to use walking machines

You brought that midget-mech up as better alternative to the AT-ST chicken-mech, not me.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2004-01-22 01:34am

Howedar wrote:Mechs are BAD. Virtually anything is better than mechs.

Yes they are, but I guess this fall on one of those "special magick-tech" thing that gives Mechs some kind of advantage. Like most anime shows where the only way to use a certain kind of reactor is if they have two legs and arms

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-22 01:38am

Slartibartfast wrote:Yes they are, but I guess this fall on one of those "special magick-tech" thing that gives Mechs some kind of advantage. Like most anime shows where the only way to use a certain kind of reactor is if they have two legs and arms

A friend of mine had a really great quote on the matter "Humanoid mechas only have on thing going for them. And that's that they are awesome." leading to speculation that they are powered by awesomeness which distorts physical laws.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-22 01:39am

Heh, I like that idea.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-22 01:46am

Gil Hamilton

Given the strength of repulsorlifts in StarWars, there is no reason why they couldn't lift up higher

Rather doubt that. Lifting up the MTTs over the trees on Naboo, for example, would make the way to Theed a few hours/days less. WTH one would drive the MTTs in the forest if one can fly over it? Another problem is that it would be useful for the AAT to fly higher during the battle of Naboo, because it would have avoided being hit by gungan bombs (rolling on the ground).
It seems to me that the repulsorlift is somewhat limited. The tank repulsors could not lift high such a heavy mass. Car-sized craft and Rebel airspeeders are lighter than tanks.

Tell me, Stas Bush, what does the "T" in SPHA-T stand for?

The "T" is a turbolaser. But that may be, the SPHA platforms may be outfitted with other kinds of weapons, that would explain the difference.

No problem, it hovers across it

Falls into it. I still have never seen that a heavy repulsorlift AFV could fly any higher than several decimeters. Not even a hint - indeed, I've seen hints to the opposite. Of course, that is only in the canon, if we take EU, the repulsorlifts are screwed out badly.
it can dial up the power on the repulsorlift and just go up and over it
Oh yes. Still no clues to the ability of medium-sized repulsorlifts to lift up heavy mass.

repulsorcraft can hover up

I already shown you, that is illogical. If it could, it would.

Then again, Trade Federation vehicles didn't have much trouble dealing with the Gungan forest

Aha. Exactly the point. They could not fly over it, and thus had to break through it, using the extremely heavy MTTs for the purpose.

Given how fast they were moving, they didn't do too bad

Yes, quite OK, but it is still dangerous. Losing attention in battle would lead to a crash. That is exactly what happened on Endor. And don't the say:

pilots were trying to fight and pilot at the same time

That's what they had to do, right? No one needs a war machine which can't be used for war at Endor because it's hard to pilot and fight at the same time.

up as better alternative to the AT-ST chicken-mech, not me

That is not the point. The point is - WHY all damn combatants (Repulic, Separatists, Empire) stopped using repulsorlift A.F.V. and switched to WALKING machines? Explain that. If the repulsorlifts are so damn good as you claim. And keep in mind that we can't say: "It's GL's fault". Of course it is, but the explanation has to lie inside the universe, not outside it.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-22 01:47am

Repulsors repel gravity, not lift the vehicle, you nimrod.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-22 02:07am

Stas Bush, do me a huge favor and stop picking out sentence fragments from my post and responding only to that fragment. You managed to find one of my three pet peeves about message board debating.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-22 02:13am

Spanky The Dolphin,
yes, they do. And this lifts the vehicle up. Or am I wrong?
Forgive me if so; I am not a scientist, just a mere Star Wars fan

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-01-22 02:17am

Repelling gravity is different than lifting an opject.

You definately are not a scientist.