Human Cases Of Avian Flu Confirmed

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 03:59am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 422035.stm

Thailand confirms human bird flu

Millions of birds have died or been culled across Asia
Thailand has confirmed two human cases of bird flu, as the World Health Organization warned the outbreak could mutate and become more dangerous.

A Thai minister told reporters two boys suspected of having the disease had tested positive.

Public Health Minister Sudarat Keyuraphun said the boys had touched carcasses of infected poultry.

Bird flu has been ravaging Asian flocks, but has so far only jumped from birds to humans in a handful of cases.

The minister said both boys lived near chicken farms hit by bird flu.

"Two cases of bird flu have been confirmed in one boy in Suphanburi and one boy in Kanchanaburi province," the minister said.

Tests on a third person, in central Nakhon Sawan province, had proved negative, she said, adding that two other suspected cases were still under surveillance.

The latest bird flu outbreak has been spreading across Asia for weeks, with cases detected in poultry in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and Vietnam.

But until Thailand's announcement, it was only known to have jumped to humans in Vietnam, where five people have died.

WHO spokesman Bob Dietz, speaking in Vietnam, that it could become more of a threat to humans as it spreads.

"The more widespread it becomes the more chance there is that it could alter its form," said Mr Dietz.

"It is impossible to predict a time or date for this, but there are mounting opportunities for the virus to alter its form and begin affecting the human population."

Critics accused the Thai Government of a cover-up when it suggested that an illness which sparked the recent cull of a million chickens was not bird flu, but chicken cholera or bronchitis.

But on Thursday the public health ministry acknowledged it was investigating whether a number of people - including a seven-year-old boy and a chicken farmer - could be suffering the human form of the disease, virus subtype H5N1.

The ministry issued the following advice for people to protect themselves against the deadly flu:

* Eat chicken only when it is well cooked and only eat cooked eggs

* Anyone developing fever, muscular aches and severe respiratory problems should report to health professionals

* Farm workers should wash their hands thoroughly and anyone working with poultry should wear masks and gloves

* The different species of poultry should be separated and their coops kept clean.

More than half of Thailand's exports go to Japan and the flu reports prompted a fall in the shares of chicken exporters of around 7% on the Thai stock exchange on Thursday.

This could make the remainder of winter far less pleasurable and I'm not talking in the hyperbole way the media went about that damn SARS virus.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2004-01-23 05:27am

Well according to the stuff i've heard on this, we may now be thoroughly and utterly FUCKED! Vaccinations no worky. And other assorted scariness. Though it could just be the sleep deprivation and red bull talking.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 05:57am

Rye wrote:Well according to the stuff i've heard on this, we may now be thoroughly and utterly FUCKED! Vaccinations no worky. And other assorted scariness. Though it could just be the sleep deprivation and red bull talking.

Down, boy. Off that soap box, it's too early for doomsaying.

Yes, this could potentially be another big one, but I post these reports to warn/annoy you lot because it's also my future career. No travel warnings have been issued from what I can tell, but be advised that can change anytime if this goes epidemic and verges on to pandemic.

And Flu vaccinations are a brain bug made to comfort the general public. You quite simply do not stop Influenza, it stops when it's damn well ready to.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-23 07:04am

Bird flue is now also affecting Vietnam. I read the situation is so bad they outlawed sale of poultry in the capital.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-23 07:26am

Only two actue virus-based diseases truly scare me (That is to say I like my odds with all diseases EXCEPT;) Ebola Zaire and Human Immunodifficiency Virus (all strains). I mean, Come on, BIRD FLU. Bird. Flu. A flu for birds. Birds, people.

Seriously, though, most healthy adult people have little to fear from these tyes of outbreaks. Just remember to drink your orange juice and For GOD'S SAKE cook your food. Or just eat processed frozen food and microwave it. With an OLD microwave. you know the kind that's big as a T.V.? Yeah, just like that.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-23 07:40am

Airborne diseases are the most dangerous I think since they are difficult to avoid.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 09:52am

Chardok wrote:Only two actue virus-based diseases truly scare me (That is to say I like my odds with all diseases EXCEPT;) Ebola Zaire and Human Immunodifficiency Virus (all strains). I mean, Come on, BIRD FLU. Bird. Flu. A flu for birds. Birds, people.

Seriously, though, most healthy adult people have little to fear from these tyes of outbreaks. Just remember to drink your orange juice and For GOD'S SAKE cook your food. Or just eat processed frozen food and microwave it. With an OLD microwave. you know the kind that's big as a T.V.? Yeah, just like that.

You'd be quite right, if only you weren't horribly wrong.

The most memorable outbreak of this type of Flu strain was the Spanish Flu of 1918 which killed the best part of 100 million people. Even the most conservative estimates put it around 20-40 million dead within months, far more than WWI. That and it had an unnerving tendency to kill off people in my age and health range, that is, bloody healthy and young. Unfortunate as the war took most of the youthful, healthy workers out of the industries in the world.

Then it just died out. The virus killed within hours in most cases and travelled slow as most went by boat back then. Fast forward to 2004 and you have a big fucking problem with air travel and this is further compounded by the fact that Avian Flu, as the name suggest, is bird based and that means even harder to contain conditions.

At the least we’re looking at yet another mass cull of poultry and local wildlife and these few deaths, at the absolute worst, another 1918.

I doubt it’ll come to that, but I’m being realistic. But yeah, keep taking your vitamins.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-23 12:24pm

Um, oh shit.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 12:35pm

Japan and the EU have banned trade with Thailand in poultry and it may spread to Australia if they don't do something.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-23 12:46pm

One sure way to take care of it:

Minuteman II.

Any questions?

(I'm still not overly concerned, when the Death toll reaches in the thousands in the zero point, and mortality climbs over 50%, then I'll start stockpiling.)

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2004-01-23 12:47pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Japan and the EU have banned trade with Thailand in poultry and it may spread to Australia if they don't do something.

If I heard the news right Australia has already instituted new quarantine rules in response.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 12:49pm

Chardok wrote:One sure way to take care of it:

Minuteman II.

Any questions?

(I'm still not overly concerned, when the Death toll reaches in the thousands in the zero point, and mortality climbs over 50%, then I'll start stockpiling.)

Flu kills 20,000 in the US every year, the mortality rate of the Spanish Flu which killed a dozen million or so in the US was barely 10%, around 5% in fact.

Oh, you'd need to glass the whole planet to get rid of every Influenza virus or virusoid.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-23 12:53pm

Somewhat off topic: Admiral, you are an Epidemiologist or a Virologist?

At any rate, yeah, Again, most healthy people will get sniffles, maybe a fever. The ones who need be concerned are elderly and children. The unaffected Human Immune system (Not affected meaning no recent Chemo, Marrow transfusions, HIV infection) is surprisingly adaptive and resilient. We really have quite an impressive defense system. It's only when a virus is a "burnout" bug (In the case of Ebola and Viral Hemorrhagic Fever. A quick killer, IOW) Or subversive (In the Case of HIV et al.) Do we start having big problems.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-23 12:54pm

Well goddamnit then, what are we waiting for?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 01:03pm

Chardok wrote:Somewhat off topic: Admiral, you are an Epidemiologist or a Virologist?

Immunologist.

No, general microbiology is a field I intend to make a career out of if not genetics, so my biology course is filled with the evolution, genetic and biochem of not just macro-organisms, but microbes.

At any rate, yeah, Again, most healthy people will get sniffles, maybe a fever. The ones who need be concerned are elderly and children. The unaffected Human Immune system (Not affected meaning no recent Chemo, Marrow transfusions, HIV infection) is surprisingly adaptive and resilient. We really have quite an impressive defense system. It's only when a virus is a "burnout" bug (In the case of Ebola and Viral Hemorrhagic Fever. A quick killer, IOW) Or subversive (In the Case of HIV et al.) Do we start having big problems.

The ultimate problem with the likes of the haemorrhagic fevers is their high mortality rate and lack of ability to be infectious via aerosol. They simply kill too quickly and the last outbreak a couple of months back, IIRC, didn't kill that many. Vectors are unknown.

If you get the rare case where something as lethal as Ebola and as infectious as Influenza merge (even though they're two entirely different classes for this example) then you'd have a hell of a bug to stop. It may eventually disappear like the Spanish Flu, but it may also not do that. We still don't know what that pandemic stopped when it did, it killed healthy young people and was lethal within 24 hours and, although it took its time, spread around the globe. A similar but far smaller outbreak occurred 6 years after my parents were born in 1957 and an even smaller one years after that.

The volatility and unpredictability of these pathogens and the fact that we can't cure viral diseases means the WHO heavily monitors any new outbreak.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 01:05pm

Howedar wrote:Well goddamnit then, what are we waiting for?

That's all we can do. You can't cure these things and vaccines are made useless when it mutates (it mutates everytime it replicates, so a day at most makes a whole new vaccine useless).

Short of stopping all travel via humans (economic suicide) you can't do anything, though the culling of poultry and sealing off of affected areas will help.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-23 01:10pm

Still, we don't know if Avian flu is Airborne-yet.

Here's a question for you, Valdemar. Herpes Simplex virii permanently shack up in the nerves, yet Acyclovir and derivatives are highly effective in preventing activation of replication, by what mechanism is this achieved?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 01:50pm

Chardok wrote:Still, we don't know if Avian flu is Airborne-yet.

I believe it is at least capable of being passed short-range and via touch at least. It may be just a short time before it sprouts wings.

Here's a question for you, Valdemar. Herpes Simplex virii permanently shack up in the nerves, yet Acyclovir and derivatives are highly effective in preventing activation of replication, by what mechanism is this achieved?

Minor nitpick, the correct plural term is “viruses”, virii and viri are a common misconception, usually by the media.

Herpes simplex (HSV-1 & HSV-2) are primarily common in childhood, the first version is the standard type for infecting the lips and nasal passage causing lesions and cold sores, the second type is the genital infection (or typically was, curious fact: the first type is now actually diagnosed on the genitals of many patients. Just think about that.) The compound Acyclovir works via first being produced as Valacyclovir hydrochloride is broken down by metabolites. The chemical disrupts the HSV (both types) by combining with thymidine kinase (TK) due to strong affinity for it and converting it into acyclovir monophosphate. This is then changed into a diphosphate as well as triphosphate via cytosol based guanylate kinase.

The compound inhibits viral DNA polymerase and inactivates it due to phosphorylated disruption.

The genetic alterations brought on by this DNA interception means the virus can and will find ways to avoid such reactions in the future by altering the TK content and DNA polymerase structure to counter any genetic degradation to the viral genome.

I’m unsure, but I have heard that people who get HSV and contract Chicken Pox (as I have) are prone later on to get Shingles by, as you said, the virus hibernating inside the central nervous system (CNS). Any previous use of the antiviral may mean future resistance as the same strain to infect during childhood and produce pox or lesions is the same strain to reinfect you at a later age as the immune system is compromised.

I hope that clears it up, I had to find a few websites from old notes as none of my textbooks go into antivirals (not even the zonking big biochem one by Lodish et al, and that has everything else!).

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-23 03:10pm

WOW! *impressed*

It's funny you should mention shingles, My mom just gave me a speech about it the other day

I happen to be an HSV-1 carrier, and I take Acyclovir as suppressive therapy, have for years, and, even though exposed and never immunized, I've never gotten chickenpox...Perhaps the Valacyclovir has something to do with it.

(As an aside, Isn't it amazing how we figured out that a certian compund is metabolized into this, that, and the other, and THEN it affects viral replication? Just...wow...)

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 03:14pm

Chardok wrote:WOW! *impressed*

It's funny you should mention shingles, My mom just gave me a speech about it the other day I happen to be an HSV-1 carrier, and I take Acyclovir as suppressive therapy, have for years, and, even though exposed and never immunized, I've never gotten chickenpox...Perhaps the Valacyclovir has something to do with it.

(As an aside, Isn't it amazing how we figured out that a certian compund is metabolized into this, that, and the other, and THEN it affects viral replication? Just...wow...)

Heh, the drug should carry on doing its job for a while. Hopefully you'll never get any of the more serious symptoms of carrying HSV, but it is in there for life unfortunately. If you suffer AIDS then even the normal effects of the virus can be lethal.

I suppose I'd better watch out for shingles etc. in later life given my chickenpox experience god knows how many years ago.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-23 03:18pm

I wonder then, given the effects of HSV, why we cannot engineer a drug that affects the HIV the same way...perplexing...

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-01-23 03:26pm

If I remember correctly, the reason why it's so difficult to make a vaccine/treatment for HIV is because its replication method is sloppy. Because of its sloppiness it mutates rapidly so that a vaccine that works for one type is soon ineffective because the virus has already changed enough that it are not recognized by the immune system.

Don't take my word for it, though.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-01-23 03:37pm

Chardok wrote:I wonder then, given the effects of HSV, why we cannot engineer a drug that affects the HIV the same way...perplexing...

Herpes is a Class I dsDNA genome virus. That means it has two strands of DNA and integrates the alien DNA into your genome via cellular machinery by polymerases that your cell produces (varius enzymes made to sequence your DNA begin doing the same for the virus particle).

HIV, however, is a Class 6 ssRNA to dsDNA intermediate which contains a +ve single-stranded RNA genome that replicates due to a DNA intermediate (this is the Retrovirus family). An onboard carried RNA dependent DNA polymerase converts this RNA into DNA in a process called reverse transcription (the "retro" of the family name). The new DNA is then recombined with the host somatic DNA and the cell is thusly hijacked to produce more viral particles in a lytic life-cycle until the first infection has been identified by the immune system and quashed.

The virus then lays dormant in T4 lymphocytes for up to 9 years before pathogenesis starts again under the mechanism of lysogeny and the cycle repeats until a dramatic decrease in these immune cells is witnessed and antibody also finally falls in concentration. The internal defences all but nullified, the body is turned into an open season hunting ground for any microbe on the planet.

I have pictures of brain biopsies where protozoa and fungi that normally wouldn't do anything to a human have been eating away at synaptic and glial tissue in the brain. It's most disturbing.

The problem is that we simply have no way to stop the virus, though we do have highly experimental drugs that can hinder the process, but that only really delays the inevitable. Once you get HIV and develop AIDS you are dead and you die in the most horrible ways possible. I wouldn't wish such a fate on anyone, but this thing is deadly efficient and since viruses use our own cells against us we can't just go the route of antibiotics and make drugs that kill the invading cells as that would kill our cells. Though these antivirals against HIV are a last resort as their chemotherapeutic index (the ratio of beneficial drug dosage to lethal dosage) are so high.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-01-23 07:48pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Minor nitpick, the correct plural term is “viruses”, virii and viri are a common misconception, usually by the media.

Good luck educating the board on the proper plural form of "virus," nobody seems to listen

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-01-23 07:53pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Herpes is a Class I dsDNA genome virus. That means it has two strands of DNA and integrates the alien DNA into your genome via cellular machinery by polymerases that your cell produces (varius enzymes made to sequence your DNA begin doing the same for the virus particle).

And this is why you keep getting annoying things like cold sores, because it hides in your nerve cells until some sort of stress (hell, it could just be that you've been outside for a long time) and then those damned viruses go on a rampage for awhile.

HIV, however, is a Class 6 ssRNA to dsDNA intermediate which contains a +ve single-stranded RNA genome that replicates due to a DNA intermediate (this is the Retrovirus family). An onboard carried RNA dependent DNA polymerase converts this RNA into DNA in a process called reverse transcription (the "retro" of the family name). The new DNA is then recombined with the host somatic DNA and the cell is thusly hijacked to produce more viral particles in a lytic life-cycle until the first infection has been identified by the immune system and quashed.

Yep. My bio textbook (which I need to sell) has some nice descriptions of how HSV and HIV work. (It's Biology, by Campbell, which seems to be one of the standard introductory texts in the US).

Though these antivirals against HIV are a last resort as their chemotherapeutic index (the ratio of beneficial drug dosage to lethal dosage) are so high.

Not much we can do, really.