Bush seeks 401.7B defense budget for 2005

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-01-24 12:17am

Joe wrote:
Hamel wrote:Rofl. More overpriced toilets for the Pentagon
That was bad cost allocation, not actual overpayments.

IIRC, it was a moulded fibreglass fairing for a decent-sized section of the P-3's cabin that included the toilet seat.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-24 12:17am

Farm subsidies are a bad idea since the US can both save money and improve its image by purchasing farm products from poorer countries.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-24 12:21am

Durandal wrote:I never thought I'd be criticizing the Bush administration for excessive spending, of all things.

Oh, it was immediately apparent to me after the debates, during which he read off spending increase after spending increase (including aforementioned farm handouts, with ethanol subsidies to boot) with no cuts whatsoever in the mix.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-24 12:25am

evilcat4000 wrote:Farm subsidies are a bad idea since the US can both save money and improve its image by purchasing farm products from poorer countries.

Of course, but that would actually require our politicians following up on their promises to promote free trade.

To be fair, the U.S. is hardly the worst offender here. The EU devoted something like half its budget to farm handouts at some point, though that may have changed recently (I remember reading something about CAP reform).

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-01-24 12:39am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:They might actually get the F/A-22 out of that pretty expensive paperweight phase it's been going through. Why, $401.7bn will buy you, ooh, at least 1 and 4/5 of an aircraft.

But hey, it looks good and kicks arse and ain't no one else got this baby in the world!

Shh! The F/A-22 is really a smokescreen for an F-14 derivative that can transform into a giant robot to protect the earth from 35 foot tall aliens!

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-24 12:47am

Joe wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:Farm subsidies are a bad idea since the US can both save money and improve its image by purchasing farm products from poorer countries.
Of course, but that would actually require our politicians following up on their promises to promote free trade.

To be fair, the U.S. is hardly the worst offender here. The EU devoted something like half its budget to farm handouts at some point, though that may have changed recently (I remember reading something about CAP reform).

CAP is evil. They exert too much control on the individual farmer. It is almost like a communist state.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-01-24 12:51am

The whole F/A-22 thing is what really annoys me. It's so transparently political, so wholly without merit, that it should've been laughed out of the room the moment it was first put forward. As if the ability to drop a few JDAMs all of a sudden warrants an 'A' designator- it's not nearly as capable as the F/A-18C even, and how come the F-35 isn't F/A-35? Hell, it can't even do what the F-16C can do, you don't see it being called F/A-16.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-24 01:01am

I agree, I never liked having the A on the F-18 either. Shit, most US aircraft have been strike fighters since WW2.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-24 01:19am

Vympel wrote:The whole F/A-22 thing is what really annoys me. It's so transparently political, so wholly without merit, that it should've been laughed out of the room the moment it was first put forward. As if the ability to drop a few JDAMs all of a sudden warrants an 'A' designator- it's not nearly as capable as the F/A-18C even, and how come the F-35 isn't F/A-35? Hell, it can't even do what the F-16C can do, you don't see it being called F/A-16.

Well I heard a laser is being developed for the airforce version of the JSF. If it is a success the JSF would be superior to the F-22 since it no longer needs to hide from missiles through stealth, it can simply shoot down missiles.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-24 01:29am

WHOOOOA nelly! Shooting down an AAM is not a simple task. It's been a huge job to get the AL-1 ready to shoot down boost-phase ballistic missiles which are an order of magnitude or two larger and moving in a straight line.

AAMs would also not necessarily approach from a direction that the laser could fire.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-24 01:34am

That is why I said if it is a succes. There is no gurantee the system is going to work.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-24 01:35am

evilcat4000 wrote:Well I heard a laser is being developed for the airforce version of the JSF. If it is a success the JSF would be superior to the F-22 since it no longer needs to hide from missiles through stealth, it can simply shoot down missiles.

You've been playing Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour, haven't you?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-01-24 02:06am

Joe wrote:
Durandal wrote:I never thought I'd be criticizing the Bush administration for excessive spending, of all things.
Oh, it was immediately apparent to me after the debates, during which he read off spending increase after spending increase (including aforementioned farm handouts, with ethanol subsidies to boot) with no cuts whatsoever in the mix.

I didn't think the conservative Congress would let him get away with it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-24 02:08am

Durandal wrote:
Joe wrote:
Durandal wrote:I never thought I'd be criticizing the Bush administration for excessive spending, of all things.
Oh, it was immediately apparent to me after the debates, during which he read off spending increase after spending increase (including aforementioned farm handouts, with ethanol subsidies to boot) with no cuts whatsoever in the mix.
I didn't think the conservative Congress would let him get away with it.

It was difficult for them to object with Shrubby's dick in their mouths and a flag in each hand.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-01-24 02:16am

Durandal wrote:I didn't think the conservative Congress would let him get away with it.

Shrubby is easily the GOP's biggest fundraiser, and his political allies (Dick Cheney, Karl Rove) play the dirtiest pool of any politician in the last decade.

You think the GOP does ANYTHING these days without Shrub's say-so?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-01-24 02:19am

Iceberg wrote:
Durandal wrote:I didn't think the conservative Congress would let him get away with it.
Shrubby is easily the GOP's biggest fundraiser, and his political allies (Dick Cheney, Karl Rove) play the dirtiest pool of any politician in the last decade.

You think the GOP does ANYTHING these days without Shrub's say-so?

Do you think either party makes a habit of screwing with a sitting president of their party? It sure as hell doesn't happen often on either side.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-24 02:25am

Darth Wong wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:Well I heard a laser is being developed for the airforce version of the JSF. If it is a success the JSF would be superior to the F-22 since it no longer needs to hide from missiles through stealth, it can simply shoot down missiles.
You've been playing Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour, haven't you?

Think so?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-24 02:27am

Stormbringer wrote:
Iceberg wrote:
Durandal wrote:I didn't think the conservative Congress would let him get away with it.
Shrubby is easily the GOP's biggest fundraiser, and his political allies (Dick Cheney, Karl Rove) play the dirtiest pool of any politician in the last decade.

You think the GOP does ANYTHING these days without Shrub's say-so?
Do you think either party makes a habit of screwing with a sitting president of their party? It sure as hell doesn't happen often on either side.

Lukewarm support for the Clinton healthcare plan among the Democrats killed it. But that was Hillary's fault for fucking up the whole ordeal so badly.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-24 02:27am

Howedar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:Well I heard a laser is being developed for the airforce version of the JSF. If it is a success the JSF would be superior to the F-22 since it no longer needs to hide from missiles through stealth, it can simply shoot down missiles.
You've been playing Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour, haven't you?
Think so?

My Air Force General Aurora bombers will 0wn j00!!!!

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-01-24 02:31am

The only laser program I've heard for the F-35 is a laser to replace the traditional cannon, that's all (which is to be a 27mm Mauser variant). In computer simulations they use the phaser sound effect from ST:TOS.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-01-24 02:34am

Darth Wong wrote:
Durandal wrote:I never thought I'd be criticizing the Bush administration for excessive spending, of all things.
You must not have noticed when he passed the largest farm subsidy (read: giant handout to huge agro-corporations) bill of all time.

It's bad enough that the corporate farms are over-producing crops/milk/whatever, it's even worse that the government fucking PAYS them to let it rot in storage! Let's not get into the fact that genetcists are still trying to make cows give MORE milk, etc, etc.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-24 02:36am

It's bad enough that the corporate farms are over-producing crops/milk/whatever, it's even worse that the government fucking PAYS them to let it rot in storage! Let's not get into the fact that genetcists are still trying to make cows give MORE milk, etc, etc.

That has more to do with cutting costs than overproducing.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-01-24 02:57am

Howedar wrote:WHOOOOA nelly! Shooting down an AAM is not a simple task. It's been a huge job to get the AL-1 ready to shoot down boost-phase ballistic missiles which are an order of magnitude or two larger and moving in a straight line.

IIRC, the old Airborne Laser Laboratory shot down AIM-9s in tests.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-24 02:59am

No shit? Was it tracking or was it flying alongside?

I mantain that it's easier with a full plane of systems than it is with a small fighter mount.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-24 03:02am

phongn wrote:
Howedar wrote:WHOOOOA nelly! Shooting down an AAM is not a simple task. It's been a huge job to get the AL-1 ready to shoot down boost-phase ballistic missiles which are an order of magnitude or two larger and moving in a straight line.
IIRC, the old Airborne Laser Laboratory shot down AIM-9s in tests.

Weren't those tests rigged? Or am I thinking of something else?