Federal judge rules part of Patriot Act unconstitutional
From Terry Frieden
CNN Washington Bureau
Tuesday, January 27, 2004 Posted: 12:30 PM EST (1730 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A federal judge in Los Angeles has struck down a provision of the post-September 11 USA Patriot Act, saying it was unconstitutional.
The court said a paragraph that prohibits providing "expert advice or assistance" to designated international terrorist organizations is a violation of the First and Fifth Amendments because it is impermissibly vague.
"It was in part a violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution which allows free association and free speech and also the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution, which grants due process before criminalizing someone," said Ralph Fertig, president of the Humanitarian Law Project, the organization that brought the suit.
The Humanitarian Law Project filed the lawsuit on behalf of plaintiffs who sought to provide assistance to Kurdish refugees living in Turkey.
U.S. District Court Judge Audrey Collins said the provision, which updated a 1996 counterterrorism law banning material support for terrorism, offered no distinction between support for violent and non-violent activities.
"Because the kind of advice we give to the Kurdistan Workers Party is advice on how to deal with the United Nations -- how to go to legislative bodies, how to pursue peaceful means of bringing to the attention of the world the plight in which they find themselves," Fertig said in defense of the assistance.
Those convicted under that provision may receive sentences of up to 15 years in prison.
The Associated Press reported that the ruling was handed down late Friday and made available Monday. It was the judge's second major ruling to undercut anti-terrorist laws in recent months; Collins authored a decision upheld in part by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in December, the AP reported. (December ruling)
Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo promptly issued a statement defending the provision.
"The provision at issue in today's decision was a modest amendment to a pre-existing antiterrorism law that was designed to deal with real threats caused by support of terrorist groups," Corallo said. "By targeting those who provide material support by providing 'expert advice or assistance' the law made clear that Americans are threatened as much by the person who teaches a terrorist to build a bomb as by the one who pushes the button."
The Justice Department stressed the issue is already part of a broader review the government is seeking in a federal appeals court. The government is asking the full San Francisco-based 9th Circuit to hear an appeal of a ruling by a three judge panel, which invalidated portions of the 1996 law prohibiting material support for terrorists.
The law defines material support or resources to terrorists as "currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safe houses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel, transportation, and other physical assets, except medicine or religious materials."
The specific inclusion of "monetary instruments" and "expert advice or assistance" were added to the original law by Section 805 of the Patriot Act.
Emily Whitfield, American Civil Liberties Union National Media Relations director, said in an AP report that more than 230 communities around the country, most recently Los Angeles, have passed resolutions calling for the repeal of certain controversial sections of the act.
Meanwhile, the AP reported that another challenge to the USA Patriot Act is pending in Detroit, Michigan, where the American Civil Liberties Union argued that the act gives federal agents unlimited and unconstitutional authority to secretly seize library reading lists and other personal records.
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You just wait till it hits the Supreme Court, it will be laughed out of there faster then the last one regarding Miranda Rights.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Xenophobe3691 wrote:
The Patriot Act or the case? I'm hoping the former, but Bush tells me the latter...
but then bush dosn´t have anything to do with the supreme court IIRC.
He doesnt have anything to do with the constitution either(besides spitting on it daily)
As usual I think I can see three obstales to getting the PATRIOT act struck down... Scalia, Thomas, and Rehnquist... but then again maybe I am underestimating their intellect just a tad.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Xenophobe3691 wrote:
The Patriot Act or the case? I'm hoping the former, but Bush tells me the latter...
but then bush dosn´t have anything to do with the supreme court IIRC.
He doesnt have anything to do with the constitution either(besides spitting on it daily)
As usual I think I can see three obstales to getting the PATRIOT act struck down... Scalia, Thomas, and Rehnquist... but then again maybe I am underestimating their intellect just a tad.
You forgot O'Connor (though I will never forgive her for her abortion of justice with McCain-Feingold,) Kennedy, and to a lesser extent Stevens, Ginzberg, Souter (the person of mystery), and Breyer.
Oh wait...
[size=0]BTW, Clarification of my above post, I meant the Patriot act being called unconstitutional is going to be laughed out of the court, not the recent california ruling[/size]
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
As usual I think I can see three obstales to getting the PATRIOT act struck down... Scalia.............. but then again maybe I am underestimating their intellect just a tad.
Justice Antonin Scalia spoke at a conference in Alaska Friday. When asked about the Patriot Act, he responded,
Scalia said the more irresponsible and violent a society becomes, the more citizens' freedoms will be restricted. He said that U.S. citizens tend to interpret the Constitution as giving them more power than the document provides
.
.
.
.
.
.
I will enforce the constitutional minimums,'' Scalia said. "But they are minimums. You've got to realize that.''
Alyrium Denryle wrote:I hope he dies from food poisoning... right after Kerry is elected president...
What? When's that going to be? 2012? 2016? Besides, why would you want to get rid of one of the finest pillars of Jurisprudence that this country has ever had since the days of Story and Taney?
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Alyrium Denryle wrote:I hope he dies from food poisoning... right after Kerry is elected president...
What? When's that going to be? 2012? 2016? Besides, why would you want to get rid of one of the finest pillars of Jurisprudence that this country has ever had since the days of Story and Taney?
... I hope you are joking...
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:I hope he dies from food poisoning... right after Kerry is elected president...
What? When's that going to be? 2012? 2016? Besides, why would you want to get rid of one of the finest pillars of Jurisprudence that this country has ever had since the days of Story and Taney?
... I hope you are joking...
About the years bit, yeah, it's a joke that Kerry will ever get in. On the other part, no, he's a great Justice, if a tad extreme at times, and I respect him most of anyone else on the court, except for maybe Rehnquist.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Straha wrote:
What? When's that going to be? 2012? 2016? Besides, why would you want to get rid of one of the finest pillars of Jurisprudence that this country has ever had since the days of Story and Taney?
... I hope you are joking...
About the years bit, yeah, it's a joke that Kerry will ever get in. On the other part, no, he's a great Justice, if a tad extreme at times, and I respect him most of anyone else on the court, except for maybe Rehnquist.
Extreme to the point where he practically ignores the constitution...
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:I hope he dies from food poisoning... right after Kerry is elected president...
And maybe you should get cancer and die.
Calm down, just because he violently disagrees with someone doesn't mean you should assault him in kind.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
... I hope you are joking...
About the years bit, yeah, it's a joke that Kerry will ever get in. On the other part, no, he's a great Justice, if a tad extreme at times, and I respect him most of anyone else on the court, except for maybe Rehnquist.
Extreme to the point where he practically ignores the constitution...
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
He's probably the one justice on the court, again with the possible exception of Rehnquist, who follows the constitution more closely than anyone else.
By the way, I'd like to point out that of the five justices who literally used the constitution for toilet paper last month, not one was on your opponents list before.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Those three Justices are the biggest obstacles I can see in the road to religions freedom. And they stand as massive roadblocks for homosexual rights... IIRC they voted against striking down anti-sodomy laws(At least Scalia and Thomas did)
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:I hope he dies from food poisoning... right after Kerry is elected president...
And maybe you should get cancer and die.
Calm down, just because he violently disagrees with someone doesn't mean you should assault him in kind.
I don't care that he disagrees with Scalia. My problem is that he wishes Scalia to die. I'm so sick and fucking tired of people spouting off with that kind of crap, from all sides. Just the other day I was with a group out to dinner and an asshole in the group piped up about how "If we're lucky, some Secret Service agent will shoot Bush in the back of the head if he's re-elected." People constantly make jokes about Bush choking to death on a pretzel. Many on the right say the same things about prominant librals. Do these people honestly want that?
You can disagree all you want with a person, but to view their deaths as
some sort of great thing is childish and stupid. I would ask Aly: since you seem to want Scalia dead and out of the way, would you support murdering him?
Warwolves | VRWC | BotM | Writer's Guild | Pie loves Rei
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Which case was this by the way?[/quote[
The recent one I don't know, the one where the constitution was blown to a snot ragwas the McCain-Feingold case.
Those three Justices are the biggest obstacles I can see in the road to religions freedom. And they stand as massive roadblocks for homosexual rights... IIRC they voted against striking down anti-sodomy laws(At least Scalia and Thomas did)
I actually read through that brief, and I could understand where they were coming from when I read it, it was well written and you could agree with it in parts. Besides, just because you disagree with a justice once doesn't mean they're always wrong.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic
'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
Alex Moon wrote:I don't care that he disagrees with Scalia. My problem is that he wishes Scalia to die. I'm so sick and fucking tired of people spouting off with that kind of crap, from all sides. Just the other day I was with a group out to dinner and an asshole in the group piped up about how "If we're lucky, some Secret Service agent will shoot Bush in the back of the head if he's re-elected." People constantly make jokes about Bush choking to death on a pretzel. Many on the right say the same things about prominant librals. Do these people honestly want that?
Yeah, we need to get back to violently killing people in gunshot duels, like the good ol' days.
That's the wrong way to tickle Mary, that's the wrong way to kiss!
Don't you know that, over here lad, they like it best like this!
Hooray, pour les français! Farewell, Angleterre!
We didn't know how to tickle Mary, but we learnt how, over there!
I don't care that he disagrees with Scalia. My problem is that he wishes Scalia to die.
Oh come now, do you honestly think that I actually wish that he dies of food poisoning? Come on get serious. I may hate him but dont wish actual death. Hell, wth my luck he is going to be one of those people that refuses to die. He wll be 130 years old and still sitting on that damn bench.
Now I joke about that pretzel because of the awesome irony. He is surrounded by guards and security... and a pretzel almost takes him out.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/ Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.
I don't care that he disagrees with Scalia. My problem is that he wishes Scalia to die.
Oh come now, do you honestly think that I actually wish that he dies of food poisoning? Come on get serious. I may hate him but dont wish actual death. Hell, wth my luck he is going to be one of those people that refuses to die. He wll be 130 years old and still sitting on that damn bench.
Then you shouldn't be joking about it. Pure and simple.
Warwolves | VRWC | BotM | Writer's Guild | Pie loves Rei
