France's War Record (again)

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2004-01-30 10:51pm

Austria: let's see, got kicked out of Switzerland, only fought off the Ottoman siege of Vienna with Polish help, lost Silesia to Prussia a couple of times, were beaten by revolutionary and Napoleonic France more times than I can count, became Napoleon's allies right before he invaded Russia, lost most of its Italian land during the Italian unification, got beat by Prussians again, lost just about everything during WWI and exported Hitler to Germany in the process, which eventually ended up with Austria becoming part of Germany, which was crushed utterly less than 10 years later.

With France, we have lots of short-term success and little long-term success, and with Austria, we have...just about no success whatsoever.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-01-30 11:04pm

Hey, don't forget the beatings they recieved at the hands of Sweden and Transylvania.

Of course, this ignores the fact that Austria was still one of the most powerful countries in Europe, ever.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-01-30 11:06pm

Although possibly my favorite historical anecdote of all time involves the time an Austrian army fought a battle against itself accidently in the dark and withdrew with 10,000 casualties, leaving the Ottoman army which arrived the next morning utterly baffled.

Shaidar Haran · Post by **Shaidar Haran** » 2004-01-31 01:30am

Dahak wrote:
Shaidar Haran wrote:It has to be said that the German military, highly influenced by Prussia and its traditions, was highly elitist.
That's why so many high-ranking officers were "von"-s.
Except they also tended to be good or even oustanding officers.

Sure, they were Prussians, after all

But to say that France didn't produce any good officers only due to elitism is just not completely right, as other militaries showed you can have elitists and still have competent officers...[/quote]

Exactly. Which simply leads to the inevitable conclusion that the French just suck at this whole fighting thing.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2004-01-31 03:11am

For those who disdain the fighting qualities of the French soldier, I know of at least one example of Frenchmen who were excellent soldiers.

Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS "Charlemagne"

The French soldier didn't lack the will to fight, the problem was that the French military in 1940 was a reflection of the problems and divisions within French society at the time. Hell, burden the Americans with the same sleazeballs who ran France between the wars, and we would have surrendered to the Swiss Navy.

I love French bashing as much as the next guy, but let's keep it in perspective, shall we?

Besides, isn't the thinnest book in the world titled 'Italian War Heroes of the 20th Century'

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2004-01-31 06:47am

Glocksman wrote:Besides, isn't the thinnest book in the world titled 'Italian War Heroes of the 20th Century'

No it's titled "Italaian Victories during WWII" if we go with your title, then we're forced to mention a few kids from Brooklyn named Vinnie, Frankie, and Tony who kicked various ass for the US Armed Forces.

Although I think the world's shortest book record might have been recently broken with the publishing of "RSA's book of knowledge"