Space Marines Versus Stormtroopers.

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Well ?

Stormys kick ass for the emperor
16
27%
Space Marines kick arse...for the..Emperor!
43
73%
 
Total votes: 59

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His Divine Shadow
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

this is leia's cell door it's talking about there
Then it hardly matters because we know it wasn't opened that way.
Because you are adding never before seen qualities to the E-11?
Which qualities are those? Except I am not treating it as a flashlight, a problem blasters have suffered for a long time.
It is a multi-MJ range weapon that can do far more serious damage than we see it do(we see Solo's weaker pistol do impressive damage), because they have many variable settings.
actually he just retracted it. (I checked that page in the necron codex it says nothing regarding power)
"8MW disruption field"?
White_rabbit wrote:I see your Hunter Killer, and Raise you a fully souped up Dreadnought (just cause I love the extra searchlights )

Depending on its setup, it could alternately pull the Droid apart, blow it way with twin-linked lascannons or a mulitmelta are blast it with an extra missle pack..
I don't believe you know what a YVH droid really is, it'd just fly away and blast it to bits from the sky.
Or it could alternatively suprise the dreadnaught and rip it apart instead, don't underestimate these suckers, one of these easily crushed a Yuuzhan Vong to death inside his armor.
They're fast and accurate as hell, and if there is no hope, they will self-destruct.
It's an über-droid in every sense.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

More info on the uber droid:
1. Can sense Yuuzhan Vong through ooglith masquers
2. Can blast Yuuzhan Vong easily (single shot)
3. One arm has laser cannon (can destroy coral skippers pretty easily). Other arm can be custom fit for the mission.
4. Extreme marksmanship...it will fire into a crowd of friendlies to hit a foe...one shot one kill...
5. Can withstand vacuum
6. Are totally loyal
7. If it is hopeless, or the need is dire, will self destruct itself near enemy grouping or enemy ship to destroy them.
8. Can crush a Yuuzhan Vong to death inside battle armor.
9. Heartbeat sensors, body heat sensors, and scents to distinguish things.
10.It heals itself from minor hits within seconds (thud bugs).
11.Can withstand a plasma ball (enough to destroy an X-Wing) to the chest without the armor giving in...(would take aday to repair)
12.Can carry 50 seeker missile package on its free arm.
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Post by Vendetta »

More info on the uber droid:
1. Can sense Yuuzhan Vong through ooglith masquers
2. Can blast Yuuzhan Vong easily (single shot)
Space Marine Dreadnoughts are not Yuuzhan Vong, performance against one does not equate to performance against the other..
3. One arm has laser cannon (can destroy coral skippers pretty easily). Other arm can be custom fit for the mission.
Dreadnoughts are entirely customisable, they can be fitted with wide range of heavy weapons appropriate to the mission.
4. Extreme marksmanship...it will fire into a crowd of friendlies to hit a foe...one shot one kill...
Dreadnoughts also have very high WS.
5. Can withstand vacuum
6. Are totally loyal
7. If it is hopeless, or the need is dire, will self destruct itself near enemy grouping or enemy ship to destroy them.
Dreadnoughts are entombed warriors, They are even more fanatically loyal to the Emperor than ordinary Space Marines, in life they were great heroes, when mortally wounded they are directly interfaced with the Dreadnought to provide it's consciousness, and fight for the Emperor for the rest of eternity. Mere loyalty is nothing compared to them, and they never give up and self destruct, they ALWAYS go down fighting.
8. Can crush a Yuuzhan Vong to death inside battle armor.
Dreadnought powerfists are a Strength 10 attack. They can rip tanks to pieces. Squishy organic things are no match at all.
9. Heartbeat sensors, body heat sensors, and scents to distinguish things.
Dreadnoughts are not living beings in any common sense of the word. Such systems would be ineffective.

A Space Marine Dreadnought is approximately six metres tall and six metres wide. They're like angry buildings with VERY large guns.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Space Marine Dreadnoughts are not Yuuzhan Vong, performance against one does not equate to performance against the other..
thats a bit of nitpicking isn't it though?
Dreadnoughts are entombed warriors, They are even more fanatically loyal to the Emperor than ordinary Space Marines, in life they were great heroes, when mortally wounded they are directly interfaced with the Dreadnought to provide it's consciousness, and fight for the Emperor for the rest of eternity. Mere loyalty is nothing compared to them, and they never give up and self destruct, they ALWAYS go down fighting.
OK, they'd prolly go down fighting here as the YVH if it didn't win would destroy itself and try and take the enemy with it
Dreadnought powerfists are a Strength 10 attack. They can rip tanks to pieces. Squishy organic things are no match at all.
These organic things aren't nothings, they can withstand lightsabers due to them not being just painfully strong but also producing natural forcefields wich give them very high tensile strenght amongst one thing.
Dreadnoughts are not living beings in any common sense of the word. Such systems would be ineffective.
Not heat sensors.
A Space Marine Dreadnought is approximately six metres tall and six metres wide. They're like angry buildings with VERY large guns
I see, the YVH droid is a human sized one that can wield possibly kiloton level firepower with it's blaster arm and can carry 50 missiles and it can fly and it's fast as hell with repulsor enhanched legs.
An YVH built to the same size as a Space Marine dreadnaught sounds like a ultimate destructo-killing machine that takes out small capships :D
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Post by Antediluvian »

I saw some advocation of using meltaguns against walkers, and I was wondering...

Don't meltaguns fire microwaves? Aren't they ineffective against metal?

And here's something that the Imperials could use effectively even against Titans: anti-vehicle artillery. It's enormous, and when it fires it shakes the ground even though it's a repulsorlift vehicle.

As for countering Space Marines, SD-10 War Droids and Dark Troopers should be effective, shouldn't they?
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Post by Vendetta »

Antediluvian wrote:I saw some advocation of using meltaguns against walkers, and I was wondering...

Don't meltaguns fire microwaves? Aren't they ineffective against metal?

And here's something that the Imperials could use effectively even against Titans: anti-vehicle artillery. It's enormous, and when it fires it shakes the ground even though it's a repulsorlift vehicle.

As for countering Space Marines, SD-10 War Droids and Dark Troopers should be effective, shouldn't they?
Meltaguns certainly are effective gainst metal, and indeed nigh everything else. There's no special dispensation to be gained just by being metal, if you get explosively vapourised, you get explosively vapourised.

Dark Troopers are rubbish, they can't even stop one Kyle Katarn. They're just robots, Space Marines are eight foot tall fanatically loyal homicidal maniac bastards.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Dark Troopers shouldn't be judged too much on the ingame performance and there is nothing rubbish about Katarn either, and the fact that they are invisible and can sneak up on someone is very interesting.
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Post by white_rabbit »

never give up and self destruct, they ALWAYS go down fighting
Mind you, I read a short exerpt in White Dwarf, one of the ones they usually have in Battle Reports about a Furioso class Dreadnaught (i.e. crazed close combat Robot) whose arms had been disabled, it decided to overload its reactor rather than be destroyed by the Ork Tankbustas..

These organic things aren't nothings, they can withstand lightsabers due to them not being just painfully strong but also producing natural forcefields wich give them very high tensile strenght amongst one thing.
HDS is right, Organic stuff isnt crap, you should remember that a Hive Tyrant chopped the leg off a Dreadnaught with ease in the battle of Maccrage and shrugged off a direct powerfist blow..
I see, the YVH droid is a human sized one that can wield possibly kiloton level firepower with it's blaster arm
Meet da Termys...
Heartbeat sensors, body heat sensors, and scents to distinguish things
Theyve got all the usual sensor packages, 360 degree vision. Auspex sensors, visual enhancements, targetting lasers, enviromental testers etc etc...

And I do know about the Droids, Ive got the nice book with them it thanks.. :wink:
Don't meltaguns fire microwaves? Aren't they ineffective against metal?
They work...if we really go into it, Id like to know the last time a blaster cannon blew up a city thanks, so lets just accept the stated effects of weapons as well as examining how they work, otherwise we'll never get anywhere,
And here's something that the Imperials could use effectively even against Titans: anti-vehicle artillery. It's enormous, and when it fires it shakes the ground even though it's a repulsorlift vehicle.
Well, that is really above and beyond the scope of what I wanted the Thread to discuss, but later on I suppose we could go the whole hog, and throw the Imperial Guard, Marines, Arbites, Sororitas, PDF, Militia, Legio Titanica, Legio Cybernetica, Inquisition, etc etc versus the Forces militant of the GE...

But I would rather not right now....
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:49 pm Post subject:



Now, as for an alternate route that this little discusion could have taken, in response to an inquiry as to what I would rate a standard stormtrooper sidearm as in WH40K terms:


The fully sealed, heat-resistant carapace armor of Imperial stormtroopers leaves them unaffected by attacks using poisonous gases or biological weapons, and allows them a two armor saves versus flamer attacks (though not against inferno cannon). The sensors in stormtrooper helmets also allow stormtroopers to disregard night fighting rules, treating night fights as normal daylight fights, and all stormtroopers are considered to be equipped with targeters.

You dont give the Stormy guns too much credit do you :roll:

AP2 for a gun that on a normal setting, does less damage than a Lasgun on half power ? Are you stoned ?

At full power...do they "cremate" "Immolate" "Reduce..to ash" "incinerate" a human sized target ? These are all words associated with Plasma weapons..


Biological weapons.....hmm, I take it you dont mean weapons like tyranid pyro-acids and such...

As for the rest of it, I hope you are just determining the stormys by 40k rules, because Space Marines have all of what you posted and more.

Its actually rather similar to the descriptions of Imperium Storm Troopers, except they have rather better guns,
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Post by Antediluvian »

Vendetta wrote:
Antediluvian wrote:I saw some advocation of using meltaguns against walkers, and I was wondering...

Don't meltaguns fire microwaves? Aren't they ineffective against metal?

And here's something that the Imperials could use effectively even against Titans: anti-vehicle artillery. It's enormous, and when it fires it shakes the ground even though it's a repulsorlift vehicle.

As for countering Space Marines, SD-10 War Droids and Dark Troopers should be effective, shouldn't they?
Meltaguns certainly are effective gainst metal, and indeed nigh everything else. There's no special dispensation to be gained just by being metal, if you get explosively vapourised, you get explosively vapourised.

Dark Troopers are rubbish, they can't even stop one Kyle Katarn. They're just robots, Space Marines are eight foot tall fanatically loyal homicidal maniac bastards.
Kyle Kataran was also a Jedi Knight, which gave him an edge, and besides when they were sent against a Rebel Base on Talay, it was a one-sided massacre and the Rebels were completely wiped out.

Dark Troopers are not rubbish anymore than Space Marines are. They're an effective counter, and bringing up one incident where they were defeated doesn't invalidate their worth.

Anyway, there's also the X-1, another effective Imperial war droid that can be used against SM's.
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Post by Antediluvian »

white_rabbit: Well, you did raise us a Titan, so I raised you some artillery. :)

But I agree, let's stick to Marines, Troopers, and Droids.
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Post by Vendetta »

They're an effective counter, and bringing up one incident where they were defeated doesn't invalidate their worth.
Given that said incident also lead to the entire eradication of all Dark Trooper production capabilities, it rather does. (and Kyle wasn't a Jedi at that point, just a poor man's Han Solo... Still, could be worse, could've been Dash Rendar).
Anyway, there's also the X-1, another effective Imperial war droid that can be used against SM's.
And be annihilated by Warlord Titans. (Let alone Imperators).
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Post by white_rabbit »

Antediluvian wrote:white_rabbit: Well, you did raise us a Titan, so I raised you some artillery. :)

But I agree, let's stick to Marines, Troopers, and Droids.
Hey, If you want play a high stakes game, Imperium ground troops Versus Star Wars ground troops, we can go for it :twisted:
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Vendetta wrote:And be annihilated by Warlord Titans. (Let alone Imperators).
X1-vipers carry turbolasers, Titans do better to watch out for them or they'll find them downed like a bear by a pack of wolves.
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Post by Antediluvian »

Vendetta wrote:
They're an effective counter, and bringing up one incident where they were defeated doesn't invalidate their worth.
Given that said incident also lead to the entire eradication of all Dark Trooper production capabilities, it rather does. (and Kyle wasn't a Jedi at that point, just a poor man's Han Solo... Still, could be worse, could've been Dash Rendar).
Anyway, there's also the X-1, another effective Imperial war droid that can be used against SM's.
And be annihilated by Warlord Titans. (Let alone Imperators).

Yes he was, according to the Essential Guide for Droids. Besides, did he fight every single droid? Or did he just sneak around and sabotage the operation? One incident still doesn't mean anything (and do character shields mean anything to you?)

And the X-1 main cannons packs the punch of capital ship turbolasers.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

white_rabbit wrote:Meet da Termys...
What kind of firepower do they wield?

Also about the speed and reaction times of the YVH, it's frickin fast, one droid jumped down in the middle of several other targets and had them eliminated before they had a chance to fire back.

This is going to be a big thing, and pitting them against space marines, which was my intent, not to go on to bigger and bigger stuff, the space marines would hurt.
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Post by Antediluvian »

white_rabbit wrote:
Antediluvian wrote:white_rabbit: Well, you did raise us a Titan, so I raised you some artillery. :)

But I agree, let's stick to Marines, Troopers, and Droids.
Hey, If you want play a high stakes game, Imperium ground troops Versus Star Wars ground troops, we can go for it :twisted:
I thought we already were. :twisted:
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Antediluvian wrote:And the X-1 main cannons packs the punch of capital ship turbolasers.
:shock:
agh...
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Post by white_rabbit »

X1-vipers carry turbolasers, Titans do better to watch out for them or they'll find them downed like a bear by a pack of wolves.
And whys that...

unless the Vipers can vape citys and "annhilate population centres" as a Warlord titans 60 metres of shielded power can, I doubt they will bother them
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Post by Antediluvian »

Beats me. That's what the Essential Guide to Droids claims(of course, it doesn't bother to say if this is a light, medium, or heavy TL.)
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Post by Vendetta »

Yes he was, according to the Essential Guide for Droids.
No, he wasn't. Kyle doesn't learn of his Jedi heritage, or gain any use of the Force until LONG after Dark Forces. Dark Forces takes place between ANH and Empire, Jedi Knght taes place five years after Jedi.
Besides, did he fight every single droid? Or did he just sneak around and sabotage the operation? One incident still doesn't mean anything (and do character shields mean anything to you?)
Yep, I remember blasting my way through a fair few of the bastards, in both their forms. (Ironically, the unfinished, non-flying ones are much more dangerous)

Katarn then goes on to blow up a near Executor-sized factory vessel

Oh, and Katarn only has the general game-character shield of the 'load' button, he can die very easily.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

white_rabbit wrote:unless the Vipers can vape citys and "annhilate population centres" as a Warlord titans 60 metres of shielded power can, I doubt they will bother them
I don't see why they have to be able to do that, or do you mean the only way of taking a titan down is with something equally powerfull to punch through it's shields, as a all or nothing concept?
I do know vipers are nearly invulnerable to energy weapons and can shunt that power directly to their own weapons.
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Post by white_rabbit »

Antediluvian wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:
Antediluvian wrote:white_rabbit: Well, you did raise us a Titan, so I raised you some artillery. :)

But I agree, let's stick to Marines, Troopers, and Droids.
Hey, If you want play a high stakes game, Imperium ground troops Versus Star Wars ground troops, we can go for it :twisted:
I thought we already were. :twisted:

Bring t on :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

What kind of firepower do they wield?
Hmm, perhaps not Termys, they have heavy enough armour, but not enough firepower really, alough methinks they could pretty much blast it of its feet with sheer volume of fire.. and tear it to shreds in close combat

weapons availiable are

Heavy Flamers
Assault Cannons....think chain gun that blows up tanks.
Stormbolters..dualbolters, fire DU mass reactive AP rounds,
Cyclone launchers...multirocket system, guided.

They also come with a powerfist as a basic weapon..

Terminator Assualt Squads are equipped with a variety of the following

Storm shields...energy shield,
ThunderHammer, armour negating weapon, also has similar effects to a powerfist.

Lightning claws..extremely damaging power weapon,
Power sword...big sword with powerfield.

In referance to the Thunderhammer, all termy close combat weapons ignore infantry level armour, including power and Termy armour,

Thunderhammers blast through vehicle grade armour, and damage the vehicle regardless unless it has an energy shield..
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Post by Antediluvian »

white_rabbit: I thought I was bringing it on. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Vendetta: So you saying the Essential Guide is wrong about Kyle? It claims he is a Jedi Knight and a commando.

And besides, aren't droids, ships, vehicles and the like always powered down for the purpose of game balance in computer and video games? Is it really fair to compare them to their computer game counterparts?

That would be like saying that Space Marines can't be any more powerful than they are in Inquisitor, even though they were toned down for game balance, you know?
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Post by white_rabbit »

His Divine Shadow wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:unless the Vipers can vape citys and "annhilate population centres" as a Warlord titans 60 metres of shielded power can, I doubt they will bother them
I don't see why they have to be able to do that, or do you mean the only way of taking a titan down is with something equally powerfull to punch through it's shields, as a all or nothing concept?
I do know vipers are nearly invulnerable to energy weapons and can shunt that power directly to their own weapons.
Dont you think that nearly invunerable to energy weapons is rather a broad term ?

After all, if I fired a Lance at a Droid, I would hope you wouldnt believe it could just shunt the power away.

Not to worry, :D

Even if, by some obscure chance the 4 40k Turbolasers, and the main energy weapon of a Warlord fails, theres always the Gatling blaster cannon with its Mega-grade projectile weapon..

Hell, why are we even bothering with a Warlord...the Warhounds got Turbolasers and Megabolters on its own!
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Post by white_rabbit »

Ooookay...right then..lets expandthis a little..

How about...

Imperium heavy Armour and Walkers, versus Imperial Heavy Armour and Walkers (since we are already doing that anyway)

Also Imperium Artillery versus Imperial Artillery.
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