Man beats daughter to death, denies it was murder (UPDATED)

[Shaidar Haran]

he chopped her body up? ah. I should read the article, yeah.

2nd degree seems likely, then. possibly even first.

Yeah, that does help.

I'm not sure about Canadian law, but from the US equivalents, the fact that he chopped up the body and such make it nearly impossible for him to argue his way out of anything less than Murder One.

[Glocksman]

This is Canada, the fucker's almost guaranteed to get nailed for 1st degree murder.

Considering Karla Homolka got a 12 year sentence (and made the Crown prosecutor look like a fool with the deal) for her part in a rape and murder spree, he'll probably be released with apologies for not recognizing his 'unique cultural circumstances'.

[Darth Wong]

This is Canada, the fucker's almost guaranteed to get nailed for 1st degree murder.

Considering Karla Homolka got a 12 year sentence (and made the Crown prosecutor look like a fool with the deal) for her part in a rape and murder spree, he'll probably be released with apologies for not recognizing his 'unique cultural circumstances'.

The Crown prosecutor was indeed a fool. He made a deal with Karla to get her husband, not realizing that videotape evidence would later turn up that made the deal totally unnecessary. The other travesty of that case was that the lawyer who helped conceal this videotape evidence from the police was acquited of charges IIRC.

Anyway, I wouldn't apply that to this case. They aren't worried about establishing guilt; their only concern is his fucking defense that he meant to beat the shit out of her but not kill her.

[Demiurge]

We need Rorshach.

Who?

My avatar.

[Shaidar Haran]

Anyway, I wouldn't apply that to this case. They aren't worried about establishing guilt; their only concern is his fucking defense that he meant to beat the shit out of her but not kill her.

And how likey is that to fly? I know in the US that would allow for 2nd degree charges but the circumstances afterward making it murder one. How does it work in Canada?

[Howedar]

In the US, any death that results from the comission of a felony is automatically first degree murder. I don't know if Canada has any similar provision.

[Darth Wong]

Anyway, I wouldn't apply that to this case. They aren't worried about establishing guilt; their only concern is his fucking defense that he meant to beat the shit out of her but not kill her.

And how likey is that to fly? I know in the US that would allow for 2nd degree charges but the circumstances afterward making it murder one. How does it work in Canada?

I'm not very knowledgeable in Canadian criminal law. If it doesn't involve an engineer getting sued for intellectual property infringement or a company getting sued for product liability, it's outside my area of familiarity.

[Wicked Pilot]

Canada doesn't have the death penalty, does it? Perhaps he can have a little "accident" in prison.

I don't know about the Canadian system, but here in the U.S. a large percentage of prisioners are themselves victims of child abuse. I hope this guy shares a cell with some of these people.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

We need Rorshach.

Who?

My avatar.

"Very bad."

[Pablo Sanchez]

I don't know about the Canadian system, but here in the U.S. a large percentage of prisioners are themselves victims of child abuse. I hope this guy shares a cell with some of these people.

From what I understand, American prisons are dangerous places for offenders against children. Savage beatings and the rest of thing.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Correct. American prison inhabitants have little tolerance for child sex offenders, and many are often beaten or murdered.

[Howedar]

The reason being, as someone stated above, that many of them were themselves molested as children.

[Straha]

Lemme whip out my notes from Criminal Law class..

well lesse, he had guilty state of mind, because he fully and knowingly intended to beat the shit out of her and admitted to it. Whether he intended the murder or not is irrelevant, he is guilty. The question is, of what. I'd like to get him for 1st or 2nd degree, but I suspect he'll get Involuntary Manslaughter. Voluntary Manslaughter at the most.

No, he gets first degree murder. First degree murder occurs if you kill a cop, pre-mediate the murder, or commit the murder while commiting another seperate felony (I.E. Kidnapping, Child Endangerment, maybe Child Abuse, Bank Robbing.) The Jury won't be kind to him, and away to jail he'll go. I don't know about the wife though, does Canada have a "good samaritan" law, or is it like the US in that respect?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Perfect punishment for the baby-killing son of a fucktard: Life in an American prison with no parole and a strict 'no-solitary-confinement' policy. Just as good as lethal injection, but longer, cheaper, quite a bit more apropos, and more satisfying. Only provision: There cannot be any doubt that he did it (after RTFAing, I don't see that being a problem).

[Shaidar Haran]

No, he gets first degree murder. First degree murder occurs if you kill a cop, pre-mediate the murder, or commit the murder while commiting another seperate felony (I.E. Kidnapping, Child Endangerment, maybe Child Abuse, Bank Robbing.) The Jury won't be kind to him, and away to jail he'll go.

He'll probably get murder in the first for the crime. But a decent lawyer might argue his way out of it, especially given an appeal.

I don't know about the wife though, does Canada have a "good samaritan" law, or is it like the US in that respect?

She apparently helped hide the body parts. That makes her an accomplice and at least under US law legally liable for the same crime as her husband.

[muse]

Considering Karla Homolka got a 12 year sentence (and made the Crown prosecutor look like a fool with the deal) for her part in a rape and murder spree, he'll probably be released with apologies for not recognizing his 'unique cultural circumstances'.

That was the biggest series of screwups I can remember in Canadian law. As Mike mentioned the crown made a deal with Homolka since at the time they didn't have any solid evidence to put Paul Bernardo away with and they didn't think they'd find any. So they cut a deal for her to testify against Bernardo and in return she got a much reduced sentence. Not long after they found the stash of videotapes showing the couple abusing, raping, and killing the teens, from that point on Bernardo was good as done, but unfortunately the deal had already been made with Carla so she got off cheap.

Then there was the defence lawyer who had some of the videotapes in his possession and helped hide them for his clients. That lawyer should've been shot, client confidentiality does not cover actively concealing evidence for your clients and covering up their tracks for them. How he got away with it I'll never know, he didn't even get dis-barred or reprimanded or anything, he got off completely scot free.

BTW, Paul is in solitary confinement for the rest of his life and there have been ongoing attempts on his life by other prisoners. None of them have gotten close as far as I know, only a couple made it past the conspiracy stage. Carla is due to be released soon, she was eligeable for parole starting I think about 5-6 years ago, but every single time she applies she is rightfully denied.

Back to the Farah Khan case, not even an all-star defence team like OJ's could get her father out of this one. He is done, murder 1, life in prison, and he's not getting out till he's dead.

[The Yosemite Bear]

We need Rorshach.

Who?

Inkblot test dude.

yes but in comic books specifically Watchmen, Rorshack was the very cold blooded vigilante who BBQed a childmolester/killer along with the dog's the guy fed the little girl too. Rorshack of Watchman verse thoug is now a pile of red snow in Antarica.

Saints or Jason M. hey my psycho your worse then me, I can't help myself so I only let the worst that mankind can offer taste my sickness. Serial Mayhamer loose....

[SCRawl]

Whether it's first degree or second degree murder, the penalty is the stiffest we have in Canada: life in prison. This means that the convicted person gets a chance for parole after 25 years, but really, who'd give this chump parole?

As for knocking it down to manslaughter, the Criminal Code of Canada has this to say:

232(1) Murder reduced to manslaughter

232. (1) Culpable homicide that otherwise would be murder may be
reduced to manslaughter if the person who committed it did so in the
heat of passion caused by sudden provocation.

232(2) What is provocation

(2) A wrongful act or an insult that is of such a nature as to be
sufficient to deprive an ordinary person of the power of self-control
is provocation for the purposes of this section if the accused acted
on it on the sudden and before there was time for his passion to cool.

I doubt that being asked for a sawbuck, even repeatedly, could be considered to be provocation. But that's just me.

[Keevan_Colton]

Unfortunately, how do you claim to methodically chop up a little girls body and bury it in the park under the heat of passion of being asked for a tenner?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Normally, I am against the death penalty. But this fucker needs to die. Maybe not killed by the state, but destroyed by fellow convicts in the yard with a matal pipe.

[Solauren]

He needs to be severly tortured first

I envision something with razor blades, iodine, a fire-ant hill, chinese water torture, tumb screws, a torture rack, and a big man named 'bubba'

Then on the second day...

[The Yosemite Bear]

This is solving nothing.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I think 6 days of torture would be applicable.

Agony chapter 1

1:1
In the beginning God created the Agony and the Torment.

1:2
And the Torment was without form, and void; and respite was upon the face of the pain. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the victims.

1:3
And God said, Let there be Pain: and there was pain.

1:4
And God saw the pain, that it was good: and God divided the testicles from the body.

1:5
And God called the pain exquisite, and the agony he called Delightful. This was the evening and mornng of the first day.

1:6
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the tonail bed, and let it divide the tonails from the toes.

1:7
And God made the firmament, and divided the toas which were under the firmament from the tonails which were above the firmament: and it was so.

1:8
And God called the firmament bamboo. And this was the evening and the morning of the second day.

1:9
And God said, Let the toes under the bamboo be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry blood appear: and it was so.

1:10
And God called the dry blood Sweet Justice ; and the gathering together of the toes was called he Pile: and God saw that it was good.

1:11
And God said, Let the wounds bring forth infection, the bcteria yielding gangrene, and the microbes yielding viruses after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

1:12
And the wounds brought forth infection, and bacteria yielding gangrene after his kind, and the microbe yielding virus, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:13
And such was the evening and the morning of the third day.

1:14
And God said, Let there be chemical burns in the firmament of the skin to divide the skin from the flesh; and let them be for scars, and for lesions, and for hemorages, and peelings:

1:15
And let them be cemical burns in the firmament of the skin to give pain upon the fanatic: and it was so.

1:16
And God made two great burns; the greater burn to rule the day, and the lesser burn to rule the night: he made the lesions also.

1:17
And God set them in the firmament of the skinto give pain upon the fanatic,

1:18
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the skin from the flesh: and God saw that it was good.

1:19
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:22
And God blessed the microbes, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the blood, and let fowl microbes multiply in the blood.

1:23
And such was the evening and the morning of the the fifth day.

1:24
And God said, Let the executioner bring forth the living creature after his kind, parasites, and creeping thing, and vulture of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

1:25
And God brought the beast of the earth after his kind, and parasites after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:26
And God said, Let us make twisted agony in our image, after our likeness: and let it have revelry in the pathogens of the blood, and over the burns of the skin, and over the creeping things, and over all the body, and over every aweful thing that we loose upon this bastards body.

1:27
So God created twisted agony in his own image, in the image of God created he him; Suffering and female torment he them.

1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and ravage the body, and subdue it: and have dominion over the flesh of the perpetrator, and over the virus of ebola, and over every aweful thing that doeth us upon the child killer.

1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every virus bearing host cell, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every pain implement, with which the body may be savaged; to you it shall be for meat.

1:30
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is hunger, I have given every body cell for meat: and it was so.

1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And such was the evening and the morning of the the sixth day.

[Alyrium Denryle]

This is solving nothing.

No, but we are expressing our outrage.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Of course the method of Tolstoy's Dad's vigilante execution for raping multipal gypsy and jewish little girls. "Jewler's vice + multipal days, finally died of shock) or the Roman treatment of "Boating" if you want to answer barbarism with barbarism. Personally giving him a nice long canadian jail sentance and letting the prisoners deal with him. Sure it's messy but it works.