The technology level question answered.

[2000AD]

<snip SW transporters>

IIRC that "hoop" was very limited. You had to have both hoops and it only has only demonstrated a short range (both hoops were on the same ship). On top of that it seems to be "technobabble of the week" material as the magician had nabbed it off of his former employer and he (and IIRC the former employer) didn't know how it worked, who made it or how to fix it.
Presuambly some aliens either long gone or hiding in the Unknown Regions made it.

[Luke Starkiller]

<snip SW transporters>

IIRC that "hoop" was very limited. You had to have both hoops and it only has only demonstrated a short range (both hoops were on the same ship). On top of that it seems to be "technobabble of the week" material as the magician had nabbed it off of his former employer and he (and IIRC the former employer) didn't know how it worked, who made it or how to fix it.
Presuambly some aliens either long gone or hiding in the Unknown Regions made it.

Ah, but going by Stewart's argument that "No technology is ever lost, it only becomes so common as to be invisible." We are forced to assume that that transporter technology is unremarkable. If he wants to refute that he has to admit that his original argument is full of shit.

[EmperorMing]

Umm, after looking at this guy's claimed background, you would think he could construct a better argument?

[Master of Ossus]

<snip SW transporters>

IIRC that "hoop" was very limited. You had to have both hoops and it only has only demonstrated a short range (both hoops were on the same ship). On top of that it seems to be "technobabble of the week" material as the magician had nabbed it off of his former employer and he (and IIRC the former employer) didn't know how it worked, who made it or how to fix it.
Presuambly some aliens either long gone or hiding in the Unknown Regions made it.

The hoop demonstrated at least ground-orbit potential to get on and off of a moving starship.

[PainRack]

Just a little note:

SW has transporters.

In the Essential Guide of Weapons and Technologies, there is an entry of a magical hoop or something similar (don't have the EGWT with me to check what the real name is) that a person uses as a magical trick in his performances (He goes through the hoop/ring and appears somewhere else).

Magallan the magician IIRC. Found in Bobba Fett Death, Lies & Treachery.

Maybe transporters are not used on living beings because of ethical or similar reasons (I for one would not choose to use a transporter because I have serious qualms about being ripped to bits and being reconstructed somewhere else).

Maybe it has been outlawed by the government, because of safety reasons.

Actually, its pretty much explained in the guide that he doesn't know how it works. This doesn't mean someone, somewhere in the SWU won't know how it works, but we should be able to safely attach the label of "lost tech" on it.

Also, its not a transporter. Its a teleporter, and its effects are totally different from ST transporter. For one, it creates a glowing "doorway" that is visible on the exit and entry points, and the person steps through this doorway. Sorta like SG-1 I guess, especially since Bobba Fett explained away the trick as it being a matter transmission device that opens a gateway.

[Darth Wong]

I would still like to see him respond to my point about Japan vs the USSR at its peak. In an all-out war, his "logic" leads to the conclusion that Japan would have easily crushed the USSR thanks to its superiority in certain technological areas.

[Stewart at SDI]

None of the SW movies have ever shown a replicator. In the last one, they go to great lengths to show an automated factory stamping out robots. This would seem to be the very best place to use replicator tech if you had it. After the fact sumises from books do not equate to technology parity. After all, any current factory "replicates what ever it builds. It's the how of the replication proccess that we are concerned with.

Since I have not read the book were it becomes cannon, I must defer to those that have. My only question is is it the same type of proccess that converts energy into mater or assembles things from atoms one at a time, as in the ST universe, or is it some type of automated factory like we all saw in the last SW movie?

The answer to that question implies a tremendious difference in technological capasity. If it's operation is compairable to that in the ST setting, then it must imply that it is not wide spread like in the ST / UFoP civilisation or we would have certainly seen it in the movies. But no evidence of that type of skill is shown, therefore, it must be something so new as to be rair. In the ST / UFoP, they are so common and cheep that every cabin has one and they are given away to indavidual refugees with out cost. They are so reliable that no spair parts or service is ever mentioned as it pertains to that unit given to the last people on the planet. Surely a circumstance were spairs would be issued if needed, don't you think.

That not all nations have it on the scale shown in the various ST serries is proof of it's advanced nature in the UFoP.

Finaly, that there are many instances of that technology displayed is a fair indication that it is widespread and normal in the ST universe.

Your replies are welcome as always, Sincerely, Stewart.

[Darth Wong]

I do like the way you ignored 99% of the points raised against your argument in favour of this one, and the way you tried to pretend that replicators (a manufacturing technology) make ST militarily superior. SW has demonstrated superior manufacturing capability (do a pair of Death Stars ring a bell?), so this is a totally hopeless non-starter for you, yet you must obviously think it's your strongest point since you answered it to the exclusion of all others. Says a lot.

Let me give you a hint: you came in here pretty cocky, and with a generous surplus of ego. The fact that you titled your thread "The Technology Question Answered" alone indicates the arrogant demeanour that you have displayed throughout your posts, and no one is impressed by your claims of expertise or your boasts about your high monthly salary. But people around here are judged by what they have to say, and so far, you haven't said shit. The harder you try to prove that you should be taken seriously on your background alone, the less people will be actually be inclined to do so. Remember this for future reference.

[Darth Wong]

Here's one more hint: instead of posting your little screeds and appearing to ignore everyone's rebuttals, why don't you try answering some of the points raised, the way everyone else does?

[PainRack]

None of the SW movies have ever shown a replicator. In the last one, they go to great lengths to show an automated factory stamping out robots. This would seem to be the very best place to use replicator tech if you had it. After the fact sumises from books do not equate to technology parity. After all, any current factory "replicates what ever it builds. It's the how of the replication proccess that we are concerned with.

But its use is neccesitated in ROTJ, unless you wish to explain how a planet with no manufacturing infrastructure built the Death Star.

And of course, going by your logic, why wasn't replicators used to build starships?

Since I have not read the book were it becomes cannon, I must defer to those that have. My only question is is it the same type of proccess that converts energy into mater or assembles things from atoms one at a time, as in the ST universe, or is it some type of automated factory like we all saw in the last SW movie?

of course, this requires you to answer the question first on why you insist that replicators convert energy into matter, when we know that it requires replicator supplies to do so.

The answer to that question implies a tremendious difference in technological capasity. If it's operation is compairable to that in the ST setting, then it must imply that it is not wide spread like in the ST / UFoP civilisation or we would have certainly seen it in the movies. But no evidence of that type of skill is shown, therefore, it must be something so new as to be rair. In the ST / UFoP, they are so common and cheep that every cabin has one and they are given away to indavidual refugees with out cost. They are so reliable that no spair parts or service is ever mentioned as it pertains to that unit given to the last people on the planet. Surely a circumstance were spairs would be issued if needed, don't you think.

And surely the show could show Picard going to the loo. Hell, in fact, where is the loo? Surely the loo would be seen if the crew required to go to the toilet, right? I mean, less fancy stuff like the transporter, holodeck, shuttlecraft, simple console and computer programmes break down, but not the uber replicator.

That not all nations have it on the scale shown in the various ST serries is proof of it's advanced nature in the UFoP.

Finaly, that there are many instances of that technology displayed is a fair indication that it is widespread and normal in the ST universe.

Your replies are welcome as always, Sincerely, Stewart.

and how do we know that its widescale? Yup, because the Feds uses food replicators, as opposed to the Klingons who like their food raw and bloody, as opposed to the Romulans who we don't see pigging themselves out. We don't see the Borg use replicators, does that mean that they don't have it?

[Crazedwraith]

Steward, shows us hows ST's supposed superior replicatior technology will stop a 200 gigaton turbolasr blast blowing up a fed ship?
Even if ST has suprier tech, the Empire has millions of vessels. The federation has a few thousand at best. Going by those numbers the federation is screwed. Unless your suggest every Federation vessel can destroy tens of thousands of imperial ones.

[PainRack]

I would still like to see him respond to my point about Japan vs the USSR at its peak. In an all-out war, his "logic" leads to the conclusion that Japan would have easily crushed the USSR thanks to its superiority in certain technological areas.

Well, the US lead in refigeration and food related preserving methods did lead to an immeasurable advantage in supplying their forces oversea, which led to an incredible endurance in their ships. The IJN could not have deployed their ships on station as long as the USN did.

[Stewart at SDI]

In reply to your question, the Japanese did defeet the Soviet Union. Mitsubishi built a TV/VCR plant out side Moskow in the '70's. As more and more people got them the spread to the west were East germains got them and started to watch FRG TV. The Sov's could not jam the signal because TV is such a wide band width. 4.5 Mh compaired to 9 or 10Kh for radio, if you jam ch-2 you also get 3-13 as a bonus.

This entailed a spread of information that made the Soviet citizens unhappy. We all were driving cars it seems and causing trafic jams to boot. That dissatisfaction spread and eventialy caused the down fall of the Soviet Union.

On a purely military front, the soviets were not capable of defeeting the IJA without using Nuclear weapons. The IJA was on the other hand was compleatly capable of defeeting the entire Red Army if they, the reds that is, chose to invade Japan. Due to political constraints, the IJA could never invade the Russians.

The first Gulf war has shown that technology does matter and that without it the Ruskies are so much dog meat. While their stuff appears neet to the untrained eye and has some very impressive stats, the details that amatures know nothing about, make such large differences that the world is zero, zero and +-140 verses the F-15 in combat. The IJAF has a whole bunch of them, and AWACS too, more than enough to secure air supiriority over the Islands. That stat includes the best that the rest of the west has to offer too. As it was sold to Israel's oppo's and counts for almost 50 of that number.

You see minor diferences in technology do mater. Sincerely, Stewart.

P.S. I am willing to fight this game from the Jap side for a fair wager if anyone want's.

[Darth Wong]

Obviously, you do not understand what "all-out war" means.

[Darth Wong]

BTW, what do you have to say about all of your other arguments being ripped to shreds? And the other thread, in which your laughable turbolaser argument was torn apart?

[Robert Walper]

Uh, Stewart, how do you defeat an enemy that has the following superiority?

-Numerical advantage
-Industrial capacity
-Raw firepower
-Raw speed
-Ruthless intent

So far your claims(as I've skimmed them) mention replicators and...well, that's pretty much it. Trust me, the Federation loses. Refer to my hatemail section. It's got alot of good laughs, and it could save a bunch on your behalf.

[SirNitram]

Allow me to place this in terms that might be easier to grasp from a Trek point of view.

Why does the Federation fear the Borg?

Numerical Superiority/Industrial Capacity: The Borg apparently controlled the Delta Quadrant, by early estimates. This would make them many times the size of the Federation, and thus able to support fleets that dwarved Starfleet.

Imperial Edge: The Empire controls, at minimum, one spiral galaxy 120,000 LY in diameter. Possibly also controls two satellite spirals seen in AOTC. Can construct an object the size of a large moon to 60% completion in six months.

Combat Power: A Cube massively dwarves even a Galaxy, and outguns it easily after Adaptation. While several dozen/hundred Starships can bring down a Cube in a prolonged battle, a second Cube would cause mayhem.

Imperial Edge: Even by the most conservative estimates, an ISD outguns a Cube by several orders of magnitude, and does not require exposure to a weapon to be defended against it.

Strategic Speed: With their Transwarp drive, a Cube can maintain a speed of 6000c for a year, making them vastly faster than anything in the Federation arsenal. Their Transwarp Conduits allow them to strike from unexpected vectors.

Imperial Edge: Imperial starships easily manage 60 million c on a normal run, and are far harder to detect than a noisy warp drive.

Cultural Fear: The Borg are a ruthless dictatorship bent on conquest.

Imperial Edge: Ditto, minus the stupid plot devices.

This is why the Empire would turn most of Trek into a bug on a windshield.

[Howedar]

On a purely military front, the soviets were not capable of defeeting the IJA without using Nuclear weapons. The IJA was on the other hand was compleatly capable of defeeting the entire Red Army if they, the reds that is, chose to invade Japan. Due to political constraints, the IJA could never invade the Russians.

HAHAHAHA!!!


*takes breath*



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[HRogge]

On a purely military front, the soviets were not capable of defeeting the IJA without using Nuclear weapons. The IJA was on the other hand was compleatly capable of defeeting the entire Red Army if they, the reds that is, chose to invade Japan. Due to political constraints, the IJA could never invade the Russians.

Do you have ANY idea what you are talking about ?

The UDSSR could have crushed the IJA easily... if necessary just by numbers.

[2000AD]

The hoop demonstrated at least ground-orbit potential to get on and off of a moving starship.

Must have missed that one, i only read a couple of the comics.

[GySgt. Hartman]

In reply to your question, the Japanese did defeet the Soviet Union. Mitsubishi built a TV/VCR plant out side Moskow in the '70's.

You sure have a strange definition of "defeat". Japan could have defeated Russia, the US could have defeated the North Vietnamese,... - together with your claims of total US superiority that all just sounds like political propaganda.
You know that after WW I there were nationalist groups in Germany that claimed the German army had been "backstabbed" by the socialists, because they had surrendered, just as the glorious German army had been about to overrun the French lines of defense. They were unable to recognize the superiority of the allied forces. You just seem to extend the myth of US invincibility to the UFP.

The Empire is not only superior in firepower and numbers, they are also more ruthless, and that is what will eventually carry the day.
The US could have won the Vietnam war if they had just nuked the place. They didn't do it (and rightly so) because of moral concerns. The Empire OTOH killed billions of civilians just to set an example to the rebellion.

[EmperorMing]

...SNIP...

What in the HECK are you trying to say?!?!?!

[Kamakazie Sith]

In reply to your question, the Japanese did defeet the Soviet Union. Mitsubishi built a TV/VCR plant out side Moskow in the '70's. As more and more people got them the spread to the west were East germains got them and started to watch FRG TV. The Sov's could not jam the signal because TV is such a wide band width. 4.5 Mh compaired to 9 or 10Kh for radio, if you jam ch-2 you also get 3-13 as a bonus.

You are clearly insane......

[EmperorMing]

In reply to your question, the Japanese did defeet the Soviet Union. Mitsubishi built a TV/VCR plant out side Moskow in the '70's. As more and more people got them the spread to the west were East germains got them and started to watch FRG TV. The Sov's could not jam the signal because TV is such a wide band width. 4.5 Mh compaired to 9 or 10Kh for radio, if you jam ch-2 you also get 3-13 as a bonus.

You are clearly insane......

Exactly what I was commenting on. Ramble, ramble, ramble. No cohesion. When will it end?

[PackMule]

Hmm I'm thinking about it, and maybe we should be nicer to Stewart and see if he comes up with anything.

After all, sd.net would get pretty boring without a random troll turning up now and again to get flamed.

It would be like Batman without any crime to fight ...


Or we could just sit around telling stories and sharing porn ...