244 people trampled to death during Hajj

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-02-01 12:01pm

BBC News wrote: Stampede brings carnage to Hajj

At least 244 people have been trampled to death at the Hajj pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia, the minister in charge of the event, Iyad Madani, has said.

He said a similar number of pilgrims were injured during the stampede, which lasted 27 minutes.

The disaster happened as pilgrims flocked to the Jamarat Bridge in Mina, near Mecca, to hurl stones at pillars representing the devil.

Up to two million Muslims went to this year's event in and around Mecca.

Despite the large number of deaths, the last important rite of the pilgrimage was continuing Sunday.

Mr Madani said most of the victims were from inside Saudi Arabia and many had not been authorised to participate.

In an effort to control the numbers at the Hajj, Saudi Arabia sets quotas for pilgrims from each country and requires its citizens to register.

"There was more than 400 metres of people pushing in the same direction (which) resulted in the collapse of those next to the stoning area... and those behind. That led to panic," he said.

Mr Madani, quoted by Reuters news agency, said some pilgrims were "not organised" and their personal belongings had caused obstructions.

The stoning ritual is usually the most dangerous part of the Hajj - last year 14 pilgrims were crushed to death during it, and 35 died in a 2001 stampede.

The Hajj is now at its climax, with the traditional stoning of pillars representing the devil, followed by the religious feast of Eid al-Adha, when animals are sacrificed.

As rescuers went to the scene, security officials attempted to control the crowds to prevent further crushing.

Physically exhausted after three days of rites, pilgrims surged forward to cast their stones.

Hundreds of thousands of pilgrims crossed over and under the 15-metre (50-foot) bridge spanning a small valley between two cliffs at Mina.

Pilgrims converged on the main pillar from all directions, shouting "God is greatest!" while others chanted "Harder! Harder!" as the faithful threw their stones, Reuters reported.

Such was the size of the crowd that most pilgrims were unaware of what had happened, the BBC's Paul Simpson reports from Jeddah.

"I assure you that all the preparations are always made, but we don't always know God's intentions. What happened will be evaluated," Mr Madani said.

He said another 272 pilgrims had died of natural causes during the Hajj.

All able-bodied Muslims are required to perform the Hajj at least once in their lifetime, if they can afford it.

HAJJ DISASTERS
Stampedes near Jamarat Bridge killed at least 244 pilgrims in 2004, 14 in 2003, 35 in 2001, 119 in 1998, 270 in 1994
1997 - Fire kills 343 pilgrims and injures 1,500 at camp in Mina
1990 - Stampede in crowded tunnel leading to holy sites kills 1,426 pilgrims
1987 - About 400 killed - mainly Iranian Shia pilgrims - in clashes with Saudi forces

Link

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-02-01 12:23pm

Does this seem fucking moronic to anyone else? thousands of people crowd around to throw rocks at a few other rocks? and with such fervor as to trample and KILL 244 people? some Religions just require some fucking stupid shit.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-02-01 12:26pm

Chardok wrote:Does this seem fucking moronic to anyone else? thousands of people crowd around to throw rocks at a few other rocks? and with such fervor as to trample and KILL 244 people? some Religions just require some fucking stupid shit.

I`m 100% for it,if it can rid the world of idiots then continue your pilgrimage

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2004-02-01 12:28pm

Mayabird wrote:*snip*
Link

*shrugs* How good that I don't care for Muslims...

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2004-02-01 01:28pm

It's sad, but not suprising. Having a lot of people in a small area with emotions running high is a recipe for trouble no matter what the event.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-01 02:49pm

The Arabian politicans knew that this whole pilgrimage thing costs lives every year. But they couldn't scale it down, because then they would be in big porblems with the muslim world.
So they had to take it, that deaths are the smaller problem.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2004-02-01 03:40pm

The moral of the story is: Don't throw rocks at Satan, you'll just piss him off.

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2004-02-01 04:20pm

Sir Sirius wrote:The moral of the story is: Don't throw rocks at Satan, you'll just piss him off.

ROFL!

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-02-01 05:37pm

Tribun wrote:The Arabian politicans knew that this whole pilgrimage thing costs lives every year. But they couldn't scale it down, because then they would be in big porblems with the muslim world.
So they had to take it, that deaths are the smaller problem.

IIRC, Muslims are supposed to believe that anyone who dies while on the Hajj goes straight to heaven. So why even bother preventing deaths? Just call them blessed and start collecting fees from the next few million who want to go. A few hundred here or there won't mean anything as long as the women keep popping out the children.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2004-02-01 05:41pm

Mayabird wrote:
Tribun wrote:The Arabian politicans knew that this whole pilgrimage thing costs lives every year. But they couldn't scale it down, because then they would be in big porblems with the muslim world.
So they had to take it, that deaths are the smaller problem.
IIRC, Muslims are supposed to believe that anyone who dies while on the Hajj goes straight to heaven. So why even bother preventing deaths? Just call them blessed and start collecting fees from the next few million who want to go. A few hundred here or there won't mean anything as long as the women keep popping out the children.

Except that then people start complaining about how anyone else could do a better job running Mecca than the house of Saud, and that leads to problems the Saudis would rather avoid.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-02-01 06:29pm

Posbi wrote:*shrugs* How good that I don't care for Muslims...

Um, am I the only one that thinks remarks like this are a tad inappropriate? I mean they're still people, and while it's an idiotic way to go over a stupid religious ritual it's still pretty tragic. I hate Christianity, but most of my friends and family are Christians. See where I'm going here? Not that I can't sympathize with a dislike for Islam as a culture mind you, but people are still dying.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-01 10:49pm

I do like the irony of them dying during a religious ceremony in which they hurl rocks at what they believe to be Satan. "Religion of peace", eh?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-02-01 10:53pm

I don't think there exists a single organized, institutionalized religion which has had a peaceful history. And yes, that includes Buddhism.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-02-01 11:36pm

Muslims,Christians,Jews and every others,i wonder why none of them has noticed that the only thing religion does is bring violence.

Posbi · Post by **Posbi** » 2004-02-02 02:51am

Lazy Raptor wrote:
Posbi wrote:*shrugs* How good that I don't care for Muslims...
Um, am I the only one that thinks remarks like this are a tad inappropriate? I mean they're still people, and while it's an idiotic way to go over a stupid religious ritual it's still pretty tragic. I hate Christianity, but most of my friends and family are Christians. See where I'm going here? Not that I can't sympathize with a dislike for Islam as a culture mind you, but people are still dying.

They knew the risks of going there fully well, as such incidents tend to happen every single year. So seriously, why should I care for someone who knew that it was dangerous but still insisted at taking part in a ritual as idiotic as hurling rocks at another huge rock?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-02-02 02:52am

Montcalm wrote:Muslims,Christians,Jews and every others,i wonder why none of them has noticed that the only thing religion does is bring violence.

Because it gives a warm, glowing feeling in your gut... oh wait, that's just a flesh wound caused by religious violence. Nevermind...

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2004-02-02 03:03am

Meh, I'm pretty sure more people died during that football game in Brazil.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-02 03:17am

Montcalm wrote:Muslims,Christians,Jews and every others,i wonder why none of them has noticed that the only thing religion does is bring violence.

Only? I'd say not even primarily.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-02-02 06:19am

None of immedietly family were present in Mecca in this eid but there were some of my fellow countryman who were killed in this incident. I feel really sorry for them.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-02-02 07:35pm

Darth Wong wrote:I do like the irony of them dying during a religious ceremony in which they hurl rocks at what they believe to be Satan. "Religion of peace", eh?

Wait, your telling me the devil is a rock?

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-02 07:46pm

Hadn't the divat sat on a rock, when taunting Jesus in the desert?

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2004-02-02 09:23pm

Somewhat off-topic, but I had a thought about how to reduce tensions with Islam. The rock in the middle of Mecca is supposed to be a meteorite, isn't it? What if we took a durable piece of stone, carved "knock the terrorism off" into it in arabic, and dropped it from orbit? Instant "message from Allah..."

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-02-02 10:42pm

beyond hope wrote:Somewhat off-topic, but I had a thought about how to reduce tensions with Islam. The rock in the middle of Mecca is supposed to be a meteorite, isn't it? What if we took a durable piece of stone, carved "knock the terrorism off" into it in arabic, and dropped it from orbit? Instant "message from Allah..."

The writing would probably burn/melt off.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-02 11:13pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I do like the irony of them dying during a religious ceremony in which they hurl rocks at what they believe to be Satan. "Religion of peace", eh?
Wait, your telling me the devil is a rock?

It's their goofy rock-throwing religious ceremony, not mine.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-02-02 11:28pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
beyond hope wrote:Somewhat off-topic, but I had a thought about how to reduce tensions with Islam. The rock in the middle of Mecca is supposed to be a meteorite, isn't it? What if we took a durable piece of stone, carved "knock the terrorism off" into it in arabic, and dropped it from orbit? Instant "message from Allah..."
The writing would probably burn/melt off.

You could just drop it from an airplane...

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244 people trampled to death during Hajj

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