1 SSD vs all of the Federation and It's allies

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-10-12 08:59pm

I suppose it should be pointed out that the "consumables" on an Executor-class last for about six years (same as on an ISD) - exactly what "consumables" means, I dunno. That probably gives us a rough idea on the operational duration of an Executor though before it does run out of s upplies

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-12 10:00pm

An Executor-class wouldn't need A year, let alone six years, to bring down the Feds.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-12 10:45pm

It should be pointed out as I calcuated Earily Sean

Even if every ship was a Defaint and Q-Torped armed, Not only do they need a half an hour to do it

They have to stop to re-arm TWICE

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-10-12 10:57pm

Alyeska wrote:Mapping out areas is not that fast. Observed, probe droids merely go where people have been before, but they check to see what is there. It took the better part of a decade for Thrawn to map out the Uknown Regions, and even then it was not fully mapped out because Baron Fel was still taking part in the work. Given the time it took them to map out that area, I doubt they could map the A/BQ in just days.

Actually, Thrawn already had the Chiss's maps of the area, plus AOTC indicates that the entire galaxy has already been mapped. What took 10 years was the conquering of races and the forging of alliances out there.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-12 11:02pm

Alyeska wrote: Mapping out areas is not that fast. Observed, probe droids merely go where people have been before, but they check to see what is there. It took the better part of a decade for Thrawn to map out the Uknown Regions, and even then it was not fully mapped out because Baron Fel was still taking part in the work. Given the time it took them to map out that area, I doubt they could map the A/BQ in just days.

Thanks, Alyeska, you just disproved your own point and the viewpoint that I've been struggling to defeat in Rabid Trekkies for years. Since Thrawn was able to conquer the Unknown Regions with incomplete maps, this demonstrates that SW ships do not need complete, highly detailed and accurate maps in order to plot courses in hyperspace. I owe you a big one, Alyeska.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-12 11:03pm

IG-88E wrote:An Executor-class wouldn't need A year, let alone six years, to bring down the Feds.

The AQ has nothing that can oppose it militarily. The only problem the SSD would have would be the sheer scale of the area, and its highly limited number of troops.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-13 12:46am

On the ramming idea, if we are as generous as humanly possible, it would take a minimum of 42 GCS ramming at near light to bring down the Executor's shields. This is going by the 1/14 volume of an ISD a GCS has, and making the ridiculous assumption that each of them is equally dense for the equivalent volume. Since a GCS doesn't have any armor, much less armor technology as advanced as Star Wars, it will take a truly ludicrous quantity of ships successfully kamikazeing to even make the SSD captain a little worried.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-13 04:05am

Btw wouldn't it somehow be bad for the moral of the Feds if they saw their ships smashing themselves into the Executor (with thousands of their people dying) without any result at all?

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-10-13 04:49am

Was it in Voyager, they said it was 70,000ly to cross the galaxy. That's just over half the size of the Star Wars Galaxy, and we know they can cover that distance in a few hours. Taking only the Alpha Quadrant wouldn't even be a sweat. Also, as far as charting, it's a little sticky. The Falcon even though it was traveling to Alderaan plotted a course. The nav computer actually looked for novas and other objects that might be in the path during the flight. An SSD would easily begin marking targets. It wouldn't take but a few days to wipe the worlds clean before moving on to the Borg.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-13 12:15pm

I just find it funny that all of a sudden SF is going to resort to tactics they thought were barbaric and insane during the Dominion War to try and stave off defeat (in other words, in the same situation as the Dominion, they were going to use the same methods that the Dominion used). If anything, the Dominion's attempts to ram their ships were MORE justified, because the SSD cannot conquer all of their territory and is not going to be killing any gods.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-13 01:55pm

Good observation, MoO.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-13 02:44pm

IG-88E wrote:Good observation, MoO.

Thanks.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-10-13 03:56pm

Akira wrote:I wonder what would happen with 6-8000 cloaked Warbirds moving on the SSD?

Congrats Akira, you get a place on the "Top ten most moronic tactics"

Lets assume the Romulans actually have 7000 warbirds (which is impossible, since that the RSE way more powerful then the Feds, since a Warbird is a match for a GCS). How the fuck are they going to gather them all up and then finding the SSD? And why would it stay and fight? Romulas would be a much better target/

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-13 04:00pm

I guess he assumes that the warbirds will be able to fire a salvo of torps before decloaking, that the SSD won't be able to scan them, and that 8000 torps are actually enough to overcome the shields and moreover, destroy the ship

.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-13 04:54pm

Ender wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:Anyone done calacs on what would happen if a couple hundred or thousand ships rammed using warp at .99C?
I question the viability of the "ram them till they give up!" strategy. Mass-lightening fields mean that even at high acceleration, you are not going to get anywhere near as much force.

Thats why you have the ships arranged in a pattern first, those that mis turn around and come back for another pass.

Even if the ship only masses a thousand tons, you still would get a quite a bit of energy form an impact at that speed, teraton range I belive.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-10-13 05:37pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: Thats why you have the ships arranged in a pattern first, those that mis turn around and come back for another pass.

Even if the ship only masses a thousand tons, you still would get a quite a bit of energy form an impact at that speed, teraton range I belive.

Yes, but those that miss will very qiucly find themselves a very long way away. In the time they've slowed, turned around, and accelerated to ramming speed again, (especially with Trek turning and acceleration) the target ha sgone and BDZed their homeworld.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-10-13 05:46pm

IF these mass kamikaze attacks (which the Feds never do) actually started damaging the SSD, it could simply split. This is a war, not a battle. And it could holotape it. As someone said, your ships slamming harmlessly into a huge frightening ship isn't a morale booster.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-13 06:03pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Alyeska wrote: Mapping out areas is not that fast. Observed, probe droids merely go where people have been before, but they check to see what is there. It took the better part of a decade for Thrawn to map out the Uknown Regions, and even then it was not fully mapped out because Baron Fel was still taking part in the work. Given the time it took them to map out that area, I doubt they could map the A/BQ in just days.
Thanks, Alyeska, you just disproved your own point and the viewpoint that I've been struggling to defeat in Rabid Trekkies for years. Since Thrawn was able to conquer the Unknown Regions with incomplete maps, this demonstrates that SW ships do not need complete, highly detailed and accurate maps in order to plot courses in hyperspace. I owe you a big one, Alyeska.

I did nothing of the sort. I pointed out that it took him time to map out and secure the regions. You yourself just said he had partial maps, and with partial maps you can not totally conquer an area because you do not know where things are. He took partial maps and spent the better part of 10 years exploring AND conquering.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-10-13 06:07pm

Akira wrote:Even using your calcs for the SSD, the allied fleet would wipe the floor with it.

1 ship vs 30k+ ships? I don't think so.

1. The Feds have ~4000 ships based on BOBW. 30 000 ships would mean that their ships are only equal to Jem'Hadar buggies, which get blown away with a shot or two.

2. You think this is some huge battle with the entire AQ in one system vs a SSD?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-13 06:21pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Akira wrote:Even using your calcs for the SSD, the allied fleet would wipe the floor with it.

1 ship vs 30k+ ships? I don't think so.

1. The Feds have ~4000 ships based on BOBW. 30 000 ships would mean that their ships are only equal to Jem'Hadar buggies, which get blown away with a shot or two.

2. You think this is some huge battle with the entire AQ in one system vs a SSD?

The Feds have 12,000 based on DS9 Dominion War information. Durring peace they only field 4,000 ships.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-10-13 07:31pm

Okay just for any naysayers

Let's say I have a Gundam or hell a Veritech.

Now with this weapon, I have near unlimited ammo(it would take me say 6 years to expend it all).

Now let say all my opposition are just spear chuckers.

What's possibly preventing from winning?

Seriously...I don't see how the SSD doesn't win.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-10-13 07:58pm

Alyeska wrote:
The Feds have 12,000 based on DS9 Dominion War information. Durring peace they only field 4,000 ships.

How? If each fleet has 350 ships (average between 100 ship 7th fleet and "major" 600 ship) fleet and they have TWENTY fleets (highest ever heard was 11th, thats still 3500 ships.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-13 08:02pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
The Feds have 12,000 based on DS9 Dominion War information. Durring peace they only field 4,000 ships.

How? If each fleet has 350 ships (average between 100 ship 7th fleet and "major" 600 ship) fleet and they have TWENTY fleets (highest ever heard was 11th, thats still 3500 ships.

Give me a break CS, you can't be serious. I have covered this issue time and time again and no one could reasonably deny that the Federation has 12,000 ships.

FYI, the word Elements when used in combination with numbers means parts of. So when you combine elements of two fleets together, that means you have also left parts out. So that means PART of a Fed fleet had 300 ships. And this was after 3 months of fighting and these fleets were on the front line.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-13 08:10pm

SF fleet size is covered in depth in this thread.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-13 08:46pm

I don't see how that thread resolved anything. As far as I could tell, it was simply you trying to take offscreen hearsay comments and use them as evidence (without even bothering to print the full quote!).

Come on, this is not exactly up to snuff, and certainly not enough for you to say that the issue was laid to rest. At the very least, if you're going to use a hearsay quote, you must provide the full unabridged quote and then explain why your interpretation thereof should be given any credence. That is a bare minimum to even consider the thing (and that's assuming we're not being picky about canon), and you still haven't met it.

{EDIT: after checking, it appears that you didn't even print a FRAGMENT of the aforementioned quote, never mind a justification for considering such offscreen on-line quotes as "evidence". Again, I say that this hardly lays the issue to rest}