Nathan F wrote:Whoa now. You're saying that to say you're proud to be a German, or your proud of your German heritage, then you're labelled an ultra-right looney?
And some of our most popular songs involve pride in being an American...
Our top-politicians couldn't be brought to outright say We are proud of Germany" in a debate about pride some time ago. Our federal President said "YOu can't be proud of something you haven't done yourself, only of what you do..."
If you show pride in Germany, most people will look strangely at you, and might think you really are a ultraright looney.
And that's the reason some people look down on Americans: because of their pride. It now has an quite bad connotation when applied to nations.
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
As for the relationship with France: It's an extremely strong one. Granted, it's still a pipe dream, but a not so small percentage is thinking about a Franco-German state, especially when the EU shouldn't move where we want it to...
Not exactly.
Ok, we show the great friedship with the Frensh to the outside and all think that we are the best f friends in the world. Reality is, that German and French have not very much im common, and tend to ignore each other, and only work together, if they could gain both something of it. They are stil Rivals, but now behind closed doors.
As for the population, we don't really like the French. They somehow seem to be arrogant, and most of us trow the language French away in school when we can. (Compare it with our realations to GB. They are MUCH better)
Then I suggest you take a look at the border regions. Your opinion is null and void there.
I don't like the French, myself, but I still think we, as nations, have many things in common, and would contribute to each other nicely.
The dislike for the French is in most cases just that of mockery. We are far away from the hatred our nations had for each other.
As for the relations to the UK: In my opinion they are not as good as with FRance. They tend to be a bit on the isolationist side, and don't mention the war!!
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"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
You're both generalising. Different regions of Germany will have different social standards.
Care to elaborate?
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"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Maybe Tribun's area is more nationalistic then Stuttgart?
Unless he's from the Eastern Zone, I doubt it...
After all, this is the Black Heartland of Germany
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Tribun wrote:Eigentlich wollte ich mich nur ein wenig wichtig machen, und habe mir das alles einfach so ausgedacht. Und bitte, ich bin kein Ossi....
That above is only for Dahak.
Gut, ich lach dann später...
Hat der Schwachsinn dann einen tieferen Grund, oder war dir nur langweilig?
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Nathan F wrote:
Our top-politicians couldn't be brought to outright say We are proud of Germany" in a debate about pride some time ago. Our federal President said "YOu can't be proud of something you haven't done yourself, only of what you do..."
If you show pride in Germany, most people will look strangely at you, and might think you really are a ultraright looney.
And that's the reason some people look down on Americans: because of their pride. It now has an quite bad connotation when applied to nations.
It's not that we look down on other countries or nationalities, heck, I'm of German descent, to say I looked down on Germans would mean I looked down on my ancestry. I see no problem in being proud of what your country is and the things it has accomplished.
Sure, Germany had it's dark days, but it has also had some great accomplishments. If it wasn't for Germany, we wouldn't have alot of the technologies we take for granted (modern jet engines, rocketry, etc....). They played an important role during the Cold War. Germany has a rich history dating back thousands of years. What's not to be proud of (other than the aforementioned dark days, that is)?
Nathan F wrote:
Our top-politicians couldn't be brought to outright say We are proud of Germany" in a debate about pride some time ago. Our federal President said "YOu can't be proud of something you haven't done yourself, only of what you do..."
If you show pride in Germany, most people will look strangely at you, and might think you really are a ultraright looney.
And that's the reason some people look down on Americans: because of their pride. It now has an quite bad connotation when applied to nations.
It's not that we look down on other countries or nationalities, heck, I'm of German descent, to say I looked down on Germans would mean I looked down on my ancestry. I see no problem in being proud of what your country is and the things it has accomplished.
Sure, Germany had it's dark days, but it has also had some great accomplishments. If it wasn't for Germany, we wouldn't have alot of the technologies we take for granted (modern jet engines, rocketry, etc....). They played an important role during the Cold War. Germany has a rich history dating back thousands of years. What's not to be proud of (other than the aforementioned dark days, that is)?
That is all true.
Yet it is tainted by those few years of Nazism. Being proud of Germany could possibly be considered as a budding nationalism, and that is to be stopped, at all costs.
Might call it an eternal self-mortification...
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
We slaughtered Indians en masse and half of our states wouldn't give blacks civil rights until they were forced to do so, but we still have a very patriotic populace. That may not be equal in magnitude to the crimes of the Nazis, granted, but it shows that you can still be patriotic despite having a lot of poison in your country's history.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Joe wrote:We slaughtered Indians en masse and half of our states wouldn't give blacks civil rights until they were forced to do so, but we still have a very patriotic populace. That may not be equal in magnitude to the crimes of the Nazis, granted, but it shows that you can still be patriotic despite having a lot of poison in your country's history.
But you didn't have a massive "Re-education" process by the Allies going.
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
The point is we acknowledge the bad parts of our history without throwing out patriotism altogether. Our textbooks, at least at the high school level, don't ignore our war crimes and injustices, but they don't teach us that we should hate our country because of them, either.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Well, we can blame the allied for this mess.
40 years of seperation into two states did the rest.
But at least this doesn't seem to be a permanent phenomen. The younger generations (up to 25 years) seem to have much less problems with national pride.
I, personally, can't be brought to be proud of Germany. I instantly connect that with Bad Things Happening(TM), almost like a reflex.
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Dahak wrote:I, personally, can't be brought to be proud of Germany. I instantly connect that with Bad Things Happening(TM), almost like a reflex.
Maybe it's because of the educational system, where it is hammered into you how bad Germany is, and that you have to be ashamed of your nation.
But the effect seems to lessen more and more.
I know several others, who found this even stupid, to be directed to hate thier own nation.
I don't hate Germany, nor am I ashamed of it. I quite like living here.
But being proud is something entirely else...
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Ah, I love Germany and the natives. Great engineering, great beer, great efficiency, even if the language (which I still studied and like) is arse backwards.
I think Britain should accept our original Fatherland more openly. Brining up THE WAR and 1966 makes a big rift.
Dahak wrote:I, personally, can't be brought to be proud of Germany. I instantly connect that with Bad Things Happening(TM), almost like a reflex.
Maybe it's because of the educational system, where it is hammered into you how bad Germany is, and that you have to be ashamed of your nation.
But the effect seems to lessen more and more.
I know several others, who found this even stupid, to be directed to hate thier own nation.
*blink*
You haven´t seen a german school from the inside.
I would not object against the notion that too much time is invested into WWII but we are not directed to hate our nation and it is not hammered into us how bad our nation is.
Frankly put I regard the fact that we are quite unnationalistic as good and rational.
Jesus Christ. I know European feelings about American jingoism, but having "pride for one's country" being "extremely bad" is not a culturally good place to be.
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Dahak wrote:I, personally, can't be brought to be proud of Germany. I instantly connect that with Bad Things Happening(TM), almost like a reflex.
Maybe it's because of the educational system, where it is hammered into you how bad Germany is, and that you have to be ashamed of your nation.
But the effect seems to lessen more and more.
I know several others, who found this even stupid, to be directed to hate thier own nation.
*blink*
You haven´t seen a german school from the inside.
I would not object against the notion that too much time is invested into WWII but we are not directed to hate our nation and it is not hammered into us how bad our nation is.
Frankly put I regard the fact that we are quite unnationalistic as good and rational.
Yes, I second that.
In my whole 13 years in school, never was there said we should hate ourselves, or that Germany was "bad".
It was always a rational analysis of the things that happened.
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Jesus Christ. I know European feelings about American jingoism, but having "pride for one's country" being "extremely bad" is not a culturally good place to be.
I prefer it that way. Better that, than German nationalism again...
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
