Schroder was a 'prisoner' of Chirac

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-03 06:30pm

Then my teachers must must have been a really idiotic bunch of people.... (Thank god that this ended somewere in 8th grade when most of them were replaced)...

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-02-03 06:32pm

Tribun wrote:Then my teachers must must have been a really idiotic bunch of people.... (Thank god that this ended somewere in 8th grade when most of them were replaced)...

HA HA! </Nelson>
That's what you get when you have a fucked-up school

I don't like the CDU for all that much, but I'm thankful that they managed to keep Baden-Württemberg's schools on top, together with the Bavarian schools, of course

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-03 06:35pm

That seems the curse of extrem left-wing teachers, eh?

But the one in 9th and 10th grade were cool. Espesicially the one teaching economy and politics....

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-02-03 07:38pm

Dahak wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Dahak wrote:*snip*
Jesus Christ. I know European feelings about American jingoism, but having "pride for one's country" being "extremely bad" is not a culturally good place to be.
I prefer it that way. Better that, than German nationalism again...

The possibility of having a Germany of the 1930s and 40s again is fairly impossible, no matter who takes over, what with the advent of mass media and the near impossibility to hide something like that from the rest of the world.

A bit of nationalism or pride in your nation in and of itself isn't bad or wrong, it's part of being human, being proud of what you are and who you are, and your country is a big part of that, whether you'd like to admit it or not. Just because your a bit nationalistic or proud doesn't mean you have to go around singing 'Deutschland Uber Alles'.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-02-03 07:42pm

Dahak wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Dahak wrote:*snip*
Jesus Christ. I know European feelings about American jingoism, but having "pride for one's country" being "extremely bad" is not a culturally good place to be.
I prefer it that way. Better that, than German nationalism again...

Sounds like a false dilemma. Germany has accomplished a lot in the past 60 years and despite Nazi Germany has always been a pillar of western civilization culturally, technologically and economically. Surely you can acknowledge this and be proud without glorifying Nazi Germany.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2004-02-03 08:27pm

I'm still trying to figure out where I stand on national pride and/or shame...I think that my country has done great things, and terrible things too, but what trips me up is that I never contributed to any of it, the good or the bad (not yet, anyway...). I just don't feel right about feeling pride or shame in something that I, personally, had nothing to do with.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-02-03 09:10pm

Dahak wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Dahak wrote:*snip*
Jesus Christ. I know European feelings about American jingoism, but having "pride for one's country" being "extremely bad" is not a culturally good place to be.
I prefer it that way. Better that, than German nationalism again...

See, there you go. You imply right there that pride in one's country is directly responsible for WW2. That is, at best, an incredible oversimplification.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-02-03 09:26pm

Any body else find it strange that we're trying to instill national pride into someone from another country?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-02-03 09:57pm

Nathan F wrote:Any body else find it strange that we're trying to instill national pride into someone from another country?

God bless THAILAND! All hail whatever ruling body they have!

Yes. That is odd.

MarkIX · Post by **MarkIX** » 2004-02-03 11:22pm

Nathan F wrote:Any body else find it strange that we're trying to instill national pride into someone from another country?

I think the sentiment is good, it's about time that people from the US realised that there exists a world outside their own country and that world is populated with other people who have their own individuality, wants and desires not that I'm suggesting that National pride is good I think that Andrew J summed it up the best pride in your own achivement not your luck.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-02-03 11:56pm

MarkIX wrote:
Nathan F wrote:Any body else find it strange that we're trying to instill national pride into someone from another country?
I think the sentiment is good, it's about time that people from the US realised that there exists a world outside their own country and that world is populated with other people who have their own individuality, wants and desires not that I'm suggesting that National pride is good I think that Andrew J summed it up the best pride in your own achivement not your luck.

Whoa now, what? Try and use periods next time.

If I'm getting this right, then you need to open your eyes up a bit. I think that the US has been aware of the problems and the people of the rest of the world for a long while, seeing as though we are one of the most philanthropic nations in the world when it comes to providing foreign aide.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2004-02-04 04:13am

Joe wrote: Sounds like a false dilemma. Germany has accomplished a lot in the past 60 years and despite Nazi Germany has always been a pillar of western civilization culturally, technologically and economically. Surely you can acknowledge this and be proud without glorifying Nazi Germany.

I´m proud that Immanuel Kant did wrote "Kritik der reinen Vernunft" (Critique of pure reasons).
I´m proud that Gutenberg did invent the printing press.
I´m proud that Goethe did wrote "Die Leiden des jungen Werthers".

Sorry, that just sounds weird.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-02-04 05:26am

Joe wrote:
Dahak wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Jesus Christ. I know European feelings about American jingoism, but having "pride for one's country" being "extremely bad" is not a culturally good place to be.
I prefer it that way. Better that, than German nationalism again...
Sounds like a false dilemma. Germany has accomplished a lot in the past 60 years and despite Nazi Germany has always been a pillar of western civilization culturally, technologically and economically. Surely you can acknowledge this and be proud without glorifying Nazi Germany.

We know all that.
Yet our past is still looming over us like nothing else. I guess you have to be German to understand it

We were never an optimistic people to begin with, and prefer to look at, and wallow in, our bad and less glorious sides.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-02-04 09:59am

i can´t see a point in national pride.
pride comes up when you are better at something than other people or when you achieved somthing.
national pride is if you think that your country is better than another or your country or has achieved certain things. now how can a country achieve stuff? it´s not the country that invents stuff it´s always the individual. if i was proud of germany because einstein was german that would be like taking credit for something i dont even understand.

national pride is IMO like stealing credit from other people because they happen to have the same passport as you.

national pride in sports is cool though.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-02-04 12:46pm

Thinkmarble wrote:I´m proud that Immanuel Kant did wrote "Kritik der reinen Vernunft" (Critique of pure reasons).
I´m proud that Gutenberg did invent the printing press.
I´m proud that Goethe did wrote "Die Leiden des jungen Werthers".

Sorry, that just sounds weird.

Just to nitpick

It's Critique of Pure Reason.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-02-04 01:32pm

You guys can be proud of lederhosen.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-02-04 01:42pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:You guys can be proud of lederhosen.

Die! Die! Die!

"Lederhosen" and all that stuff, is something purely Bavarian and thusly has to burn eternally in hell, and then some.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-02-04 01:43pm

Not to forget Gil:

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-04 01:46pm

Dahak wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote:You guys can be proud of lederhosen.
Die! Die! Die!

"Lederhosen" and all that stuff, is something purely Bavarian and thusly has to burn eternally in hell, and then some.

You don't seem to be very fond of Bavaria. (And I thought that only is true for people northern of the Weißwurst-Äquator)

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2004-02-04 01:49pm

Tribun wrote:
Dahak wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote:You guys can be proud of lederhosen.
Die! Die! Die!

"Lederhosen" and all that stuff, is something purely Bavarian and thusly has to burn eternally in hell, and then some.
You don't seem to be very fond of Bavaria. (And I thought that only is true for people northern of the Weißwurst-Äquator)

I hate it. Germany should invade that pesthole and burn Stoiber and his ilk on poles in Munich.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-04 01:51pm

Dahak wrote:
Tribun wrote:
Dahak wrote: Die! Die! Die!

"Lederhosen" and all that stuff, is something purely Bavarian and thusly has to burn eternally in hell, and then some.
You don't seem to be very fond of Bavaria. (And I thought that only is true for people northern of the Weißwurst-Äquator)
I hate it. Germany should invade that pesthole and burn Stoiber and his ilk on poles in Munich.

ZIEHT DEN BAYERN DIE LEDERHOSEN AUS! (I hope that they will loose today in the DFB-cup game against Aachen)

Gambler · Post by **Gambler** » 2004-02-04 03:27pm

Tribun wrote:ZIEHT DEN BAYERN DIE LEDERHOSEN AUS! (I hope that they will loose today in the DFB-cup game against Aachen)

So do I, the game has just begun.

As for national pride, like some have said, there realy isn't much sense to be proud of something you had nothing to do with.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-02-04 04:23pm

Gambler wrote:
Tribun wrote:
As for national pride, like some have said, there realy isn't much sense to be proud of something you had nothing to do with.

Which is the opposite of what they teach in America. I find it amusing that they tell, say, the decendants of some Irish or Italian immigrant who was likely looked down upon by the natives to be proud of those natives.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2004-02-04 04:54pm

There's a thing called 'national unity'. You're proud of each other's accomplishments, much like a friend might be proud of another friend's accomplishments. You don't have to participate something to be able to say, "An American made that, and I'm proud of it."

Is it any different than, say, supporting the Americans (or whatever) in the Olympics, and being proud of them when they win?

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-02-04 05:17pm

SIE HABEN IHNEN DIE LEDERHOSEN AUSGEZOGEN!
Ohne Bayern geht es nach Berlin!

Note: This above speaks about my joy, that the munich scoccer club (the most aggogant of all) is out of the german cup.