Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
It is always good to see the underdog win. The game was ok, I liked the first half a lot.Tribun wrote:SIE HABEN IHNEN DIE LEDERHOSEN AUSGEZOGEN!
Ohne Bayern geht es nach Berlin!
Note: This above speaks about my joy, that the munich scoccer club (the most aggogant of all) is out of the german cup.
That's the way you see itNathan F wrote:There's a thing called 'national unity'. You're proud of each other's accomplishments, much like a friend might be proud of another friend's accomplishments. You don't have to participate something to be able to say, "An American made that, and I'm proud of it."
Is it any different than, say, supporting the Americans (or whatever) in the Olympics, and being proud of them when they win?
Tell me this, at it's current state, what is there not to be proud of in Germany? It has one of the highest standards of livings of any country. It has a strong economic and industrial sector. It's a democratic nation. It's citizens have a good amount of civil liberties and rights. It's a central nation in the western world. It has admitted to it's past mistakes and taken measures to help ensure that it never happens again, and that's an honorable thing in and of itself.Dahak wrote: That's the way you see it
That's not how it is seen here. Sure, you can be proud of a sports team, or Germany winning in the Olympics.
But to be proud of Germany, as a whole, is something that is Not Done.
Pride is not so high up in our appreciation.
I guess nothing.Nathan F wrote:Tell me this, at it's current state, what is there not to be proud of in Germany? It has one of the highest standards of livings of any country. It has a strong economic and industrial sector. It's a democratic nation. It's citizens have a good amount of civil liberties and rights. It's a central nation in the western world. It has admitted to it's past mistakes and taken measures to help ensure that it never happens again, and that's an honorable thing in and of itself.Dahak wrote: That's the way you see it
That's not how it is seen here. Sure, you can be proud of a sports team, or Germany winning in the Olympics.
But to be proud of Germany, as a whole, is something that is Not Done.
Pride is not so high up in our appreciation.
It's a good country to live in, from what I can see, and from what I hear from my relatives residing in the country. What's not to be proud of?
Colonel Olrik wrote:Meh, nationalism is vastly overrated. It is right on top together with religion as the major cause of misery and war. We don't need it over here.
I don't know. I think there needs to be an optimistic, idealism to drive and keep society and nation-states alive and ticking. Y'know, bad in extreme, but good in moderation?
well, i think that´s a different feeling. not pride. it´s more like deep happiness. similar but slightly different.Nathan F wrote:There's a thing called 'national unity'. You're proud of each other's accomplishments, much like a friend might be proud of another friend's accomplishments.
You don't have to participate something to be able to say, "An American made that, and I'm proud of it."
i´d say the main difference between sports and non sports is that sports is nothing serious. in sports you just need something to shout for. what exactly this something is, is irrelevant.Is it any different than, say, supporting the Americans (or whatever) in the Olympics, and being proud of them when they win?
well, being non nationalistic doesn´t necessarily mean that you´´re ashamed of your country. just neutral. after all nationality is something completely abstract. nationality simply means that you´re part of a random group of people. it doesn´t change anything about you in principle.Illuminatus Primus wrote:
I think the myopic and ashamed-to-be-Western attitude of Western Civilization is a very negative thing. Our institutions and beliefs systems are certainly objectively superior to the current Arab ethic, and Chinese Communism, as well as Latin American and African attitudes. Our civilization is objectively more productive. And I think we should be more enthusiastic about propogating and fostering intellectualism, science, secularism, republicanism, etc.
Sorry I tend to write like I talkNathan F wrote: Whoa now, what? Try and use periods next time.
I think you misinterpreted the slant of my accusation. My observations of the people from the States I have dealt with has been, that for the most part they display an adversarial attitude to the rest of the world. Some would call it arrogance but I don't think it's that, it's more that People in your country think that if anybody disagrees with them the reasons must be to oppose your view not because the other person just sees things differently.If I'm getting this right, then you need to open your eyes up a bit. I think that the US has been aware of the problems and the people of the rest of the world for a long while, seeing as though we are one of the most philanthropic nations in the world when it comes to providing foreign aide.
Oh, I'm proud of who I am, who my friends are, and of the values I defend and which my society upholds. I certainly think they're superior to most out there. I am also willing to fight so that the things I take for granted remain true. But proud of being born in the E.U? That wasn't my doing, that was sheer luck. Any lowlife idiot can be proud of that. It depends of how you want to define nationalism, really, but I just don't like the word particulary. It attracts too many morons, everywhere.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Colonel Olrik wrote:Meh, nationalism is vastly overrated. It is right on top together with religion as the major cause of misery and war. We don't need it over here.
I think the myopic and ashamed-to-be-Western attitude of Western Civilization is a very negative thing. Our institutions and beliefs systems are certainly objectively superior to the current Arab ethic, and Chinese Communism, as well as Latin American and African attitudes. Our civilization is objectively more productive. And I think we should be more enthusiastic about propogating and fostering intellectualism, science, secularism, republicanism, etc.
Cynicism, greed, and special interests drive nations and societies, not ideals or optimism.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Colonel Olrik wrote:Meh, nationalism is vastly overrated. It is right on top together with religion as the major cause of misery and war. We don't need it over here.
Well I don't see why one cannot be proud of the relative superiority and efficiency of one's civilization. I think it is a good thing to be glad to be in such a situation.Colonel Olrik wrote:It depends of how you want to define nationalism, really, but I just don't like the word particulary. It attracts too many morons, everywhere.
Yeah and myopic viewpoints aren't hurting us in social and biological progress. What about new space programs? Etc.?Andrew J. wrote:Cynicism, greed, and special interests drive nations and societies, not ideals or optimism.
