What would Trek do in the face of a SW invasion?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-10-12 05:36pm

The Federation, if it's smart, can actually come out ahead here.

The word you're looking for is Toadie.

Get friendly with the Imperials. Offer starmaps, intelligence, sensor data. Make sure the Empire knows these funny primitive humans will help them, if only they would be so kind as to help fight against the oppressive aliens coming from all sides. In short, they should grovel and get on the New Boss's good side.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-10-12 06:41pm

Die. Die a horrible fiery death.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-10-12 07:18pm

Howedar wrote:
Ender wrote: That's about a single LTL. Also, assumping dry air and STP, since energy is transmitted at the speed of sound, the cube would be gone in 9.13 seconds.
Energy is transmitted at the speed of sound now? Why was I not informed?

I took that bit from one of the debates here. Apparently a rather large fuck up on my part. Note to self, check sources.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-12 11:15pm

The Empire's presence in their outer holdings is NOT light. Tatooine is an example of a very heavy presence, with three orbital ISD's and a large garrison of stormtroopers on Tatooine. I've already been over this with DarkStar. Everyone agreed with me.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-10-12 11:34pm

I don't agree, I simply didn't pipe up. While I believe the garrison of troops was there, I think the ISDs were simply called in because the plans were that important.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-10-13 12:00am

While I hate to disagree with Ossus, I must in turn agree with Ender. The only reason that there was an Imperial presence at Tatooine was directly related to the plans of the Death Star. This is supported numerous times within the novelisation. However, the territory controlled by the United Federation of Planets would not be remote, nor backwater. They have personell and resources that would be valuable. Also, the Imperials, once discovering that they posses space fairing vessels capable of mass destruction (on a purely Star Trek scale) they would place mutliple star bases, garrisons, troops, fleet ships and of course included are Imperial Star Destroyers. The UFP may at first think it is nothing and abide by the Empire's rules, they will eventually grow tired of being goverened by the Empire. Then when the decide to 'rebel' the crushing heel of Imperial oppression will weigh on them. Lastly, when they mobilize the pitiful collection of starships they have, possibly coupled with corvettes and frigates they will attack the fleet. If they manage a victory it will be short and sweet. The Emperor is not as forgiving as a Moff is.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-10-13 12:45am

THE UNITED IMPERIAL PLANETS.

cue imperial march

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-13 12:22pm

Only the Devastator (with Vader) was there specifically for the plans. The other ships (Conquest and another unnamed ISD) were there for no apparent reason, but it may have had to do with interdicting Jabba's spice shipments. The garrison in Mos Eisley was certainly there on a permanent basis (it had everything from Dewbacks to law enforcement droids), and was responsible for law enforcement on Tatooine (as evidenced in ANH when bar patrons asked stormtroopers to get involved in a law enforcement matter). This demonstrates that the stormtroopers in Mos Eisley at the very least were there on a permanent basis. Further, Luke's surprise at hearing about Imperial stormtroopers killing Jawas was not their presence on Tatooine (though that was his first experience with Imperials during the trilogy), but with their slaughter of Jawas. He was not surprised that they were there. Han came to the conclusion that they were trying to stay out of LOCAL trouble, further demonstrating that the Imperials were in full control of Tatooine, and potentially the nearby areas, as well. Clearly he was used to having people barter for transports that were in trouble with the Imperials, as was further demonstrated when he blasted his way out of Mos Eisley.

All of the evidence firmly points to a permanent Imperial presence on Tatooine. I cannot believe that so many people disagree with this, as it is clearly shown in the movies.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-10-13 12:34pm

We're not disagreeing about the presence of Imperial troops on the ground Ossus, we are disagreeing about the fact that those 2 star destroyers were permanently stationed there instead of specifically called in to ensure no one got off the planet (not that it did any good).

Tell me, you've got at least a million planets, and only 25,000 star destroyers. Are you really going to station 2 of them at that worthless ball of dust instead of, say, a dreadnaught or something less valuable?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-13 12:38pm

Ender wrote:We're not disagreeing about the presence of Imperial troops on the ground Ossus, we are disagreeing about the fact that those 2 star destroyers were permanently stationed there instead of specifically called in to ensure no one got off the planet (not that it did any good).

Tell me, you've got at least a million planets, and only 25,000 star destroyers. Are you really going to station 2 of them at that worthless ball of dust instead of, say, a dreadnaught or something less valuable?

I think that they were not there on a permanent basis, but that they were there for law enforcement purposes, regarding Jabba. If one of the largest crime-lords in the Galaxy (two of the largest, if you count the Whipid) are on a planet, you may indeed need to dispatch ISD's there to try and control the problem.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-13 12:39pm

Ender wrote:We're not disagreeing about the presence of Imperial troops on the ground Ossus, we are disagreeing about the fact that those 2 star destroyers were permanently stationed there instead of specifically called in to ensure no one got off the planet (not that it did any good).

Tell me, you've got at least a million planets, and only 25,000 star destroyers. Are you really going to station 2 of them at that worthless ball of dust instead of, say, a dreadnaught or something less valuable?

Tatooine was THE smuggling capital of the galaxy. It's make sense to have them on station there to try to clamp down on smuggling.

Then again the fact that smuggling is routine there argues that they aren't a regular presence. Most likely they were called in to try to stop any smuggler trying to get off planet threw the quarintine they slapped on. I know I'd call for reinfocements if I was trying to keep secret documents from getting off a planet full of smugglers and pirates.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-10-13 01:44pm

Would it be more believable if the two Stardestroyers in question were part of the sector fleet that Tatooine is a part of and were called in for support when the Devistator took up a position around Tatooine to find the missing plans.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-10-13 02:35pm

That would make a lot of sense. Part of the sector fleet is very resonable. If they had been there at Tatooine we would have seen them at the beginning of the movie closing off the ship. Han's exclaimation 'Our passengers must be hotter than I though.' when he sees those ships also points to a lack of an Imperial presence. As far as ground troops go, in another thread I think we figured up they had some form of garrison there. However, the characters in the novelisation just don't believe Luke when he informs them of the battle up above. They don't believe that the Imperials would have anything to do with Tatooine. Further more it's noted that they have Banthas in the novelisation as well as Dewbacks. Luke reasons that they would have had to kill Tuskens to acquire them. Vader instructs the commander before he leaves for the surface to be discreet. Vader didn't want any attention to what was happening.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-10-13 05:00pm

For the record there were 5 Star Destroyers (or destroyer level vessels) at Tatooine according to Han:

[quote=Star Wars pg 93] "They're going to try o box us up before we can jump. Five ships...What did you two do to attract that kind of company?"[/quote]

Also when lookig at the /Devastator/ the crowd at Anchorhead assumed it was a bulk freighter because the Empire simply wouldn't bother to send out a major combatant of that size to Tatooine.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-10-13 10:25pm

I'd say Ylesia or Kessel would be more likely to be seen as the "smuggler" capital, or Nar Shaddaa. Tattooine is a useless dustball from what we're told in the movies, and most of the criminal stuff in the EU is associated with Jabba or with the fact that Tattooine lied along several major hyperlanes across the galaxy. It's just a gas station for criminals and other then that, a dust ball. The Moff was almost certainly being bribed to look the other way. I completely disagree that the other SDs (other then the Devestator, that is) were there for anything but helping secure the planet for retrieval of the Death Star I plans. All of the galaxy was ruled by the Empire (with the exception of the galactic halo which is the Unknown Regions in Mr. Saxton's excellent interpretations) and Nal Hutta and Nar Shaddaa were permitted to exist (nix one abortive attempt to bring it to heel under the command of Baron Fel) by the Imperial administration, so I doubt that SD complement of 5 ships at Tattoine was anything but to hold down the planet for securing the Death Star plans. According to the X-Wing game, the Rebels already had capital ships by this time, and they knew how valuable those plans would be to the Alliance. The Imperials under the efficient operational control of the Lord Darth Vader could've thought it was possible the distress signal Vader ordered transmitted as part of the rouse would've been detected and that the Alliance could launch an all-out assault to capture those plans. The presence of 5 Star Destroyers under that possibility is completely reasonable. I doubt that Imperial ships with the exception of the occasional corvette or system patrol craft ever crossed Tattooine.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-14 09:00am

At the point od ANH the Rebels would have had nothing larger than a Nebula B Friget, this much is stated. Most of the Mon Cal Cruisers were being used to protect Mon Calmari or still being refitted with Turbo Lasers. In other words nothing to tie up 5 ISD's for. It's seems most likely that they were part of the local sector fleet and were called in by Vader

TOWNMNBS · Post by **TOWNMNBS** » 2002-10-14 09:37am

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Besides shit themselves? Hmm. diplomatic attempts. That's what they always do. Even after they have been givin an ass whippin'. When given the choice to fight or flight, they usually fly the coop if they can. The Dominion War would be how they'd act once they realized peace was not going to happen. It would also show thier fleet tactics before the Empire's opening salvo.

Act in what - a display of pointless arrogance?!? The Federation only fights when its back is to the wall. The Federation ( as all of Trek does) believes in the CONSTRUCTIVE use of force as a solution to a conflict not random murder. And they fight to win a'la the Dominion War.

Besides the Federation has organizations like S13 to make sure that the Empire would never become a significant threat. A little freedom spread around all the endentured worlds of the Empire would lead to a mass revolt, which effectivly removes any (if any) numerical advantage the Empire has in fleet size.

If it came to actual combat though the NDF effect of common phasers is more than adiquate to engage and destroy anything the empire field.

Thnaks

TJ

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-10-14 11:57am

TOWNMNBS wrote:
DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Besides shit themselves? Hmm. diplomatic attempts. That's what they always do. Even after they have been givin an ass whippin'. When given the choice to fight or flight, they usually fly the coop if they can. The Dominion War would be how they'd act once they realized peace was not going to happen. It would also show thier fleet tactics before the Empire's opening salvo.
Act in what - a display of pointless arrogance?!? The Federation only fights when its back is to the wall. The Federation ( as all of Trek does) believes in the CONSTRUCTIVE use of force as a solution to a conflict not random murder. And they fight to win a'la the Dominion War.

Besides the Federation has organizations like S13 to make sure that the Empire would never become a significant threat. A little freedom spread around all the endentured worlds of the Empire would lead to a mass revolt, which effectivly removes any (if any) numerical advantage the Empire has in fleet size.

If it came to actual combat though the NDF effect of common phasers is more than adiquate to engage and destroy anything the empire field.

Thnaks

TJ

Was there any point whatsoever to your post besides annoying me. The Alpha Quadrant stands absolutely no chance of survival in any scenerio against the Galactic Empire. One way or another, they go down. Live with it. Newb.

Vapthorne · Post by **Vapthorne** » 2002-10-14 12:21pm

"Act in what - a display of pointless arrogance?!? The Federation only fights when its back is to the wall. The Federation ( as all of Trek does) believes in the CONSTRUCTIVE use of force as a solution to a conflict not random murder. And they fight to win a'la the Dominion War. "

And how many times had the Federation had it's back to the wall. None, in space walls don't nonexist. This is plain common sense.

"Besides the Federation has organizations like S13 to make sure that the Empire would never become a significant threat. A little freedom spread around all the endentured worlds of the Empire would lead to a mass revolt, which effectivly removes any (if any) numerical advantage the Empire has in fleet size. "

False. Freedom is not like jelly, you can't spread it across a world like it's bread. Beside there is more freedom on Imperial worlds than on Federation ones.

"If it came to actual combat though the NDF effect of common phasers is more than adiquate to engage and destroy anything the empire field. "

Picard: Transmit in all frequencies, 'We surrender.'

"Thnaks "

Thnaks? I think you mean 'Thanks'

(Giving this post the seriousness it deserves.)

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-10-14 01:27pm

Nope. They had heavier capitals, just not as many as later. Calamari was host to the majority and the surrounding space was probably littered with mines to stave off possible Imperial assault (source: Saxton speculation). Even nixing the MC80s, the Alliance still had a number of Dreadnaughts and a few Bulwark Battlecruisers (source: Rebellion game). You're right, I don't think they had anything that could outfight 5 Star Destroyers. I think they could've scrapped together enough firepower to hold off perhaps two while they made a run for the plans. You proved my point, basically...that Vader brought in the other 4 SDs (likely from the local sector group) to secure the planet and ensure any Rebel attack would be futile. Vader thought the same thing you did. Maybe the Rebels could hold of an SD or two, but not five. So he brought the others in for security. Exactly what I thought.