Get on the Bus (Spike Lee movie)

[Darth Wong]

I recently saw "Get on the Bus", and I have this to say: why do black "entertainers" have to continually harp on the state of being black? After about one quarter of the movie, I was so sick of the movie's overt "look at me, I'm black!" and "let's talk about blackness!" bullshit that I was ready to throw a brick through the TV.

Yes, you're black. Get the fuck over it already. Don't these people realize that they're not solving or helping anything by obsessing over that which makes them different?

PS. It received critical raves, of course. And naturally, every black guy in the movie refers to every other black guy in the movie as "nigger".

[Stravo]

The culture of black entertainers is all about the celebration of blackness and in my view is connected to the belief among many African Americans that mainstream media doesn't do enough to acknowledge their culture that black entertainment has to go into overdrive.

Besides, just about anything by Spike Lee sucks donkey balls.

[Darth Wong]

The culture of black entertainers is all about the celebration of blackness and in my view is connected to the belief among many African Americans that mainstream media doesn't do enough to acknowledge their culture that black entertainment has to go into overdrive.

That's the whole problem, isn't it? The notion that the black race in America must have some kind of distinct "culture" from everyone else. If you want to get people to accept you, make every effort to stand apart and distinct from the mainstream, right?

It's funny how Martin Luther King talked about black kids being just like everyone else and modern so-called "black leaders" have completely reversed his message, so that they spend their time harping on the uniqueness of the black experience

Besides, just about anything by Spike Lee sucks donkey balls.

True. I wish I knew why he was considered a brilliant filmmaker. I think white critics are just afraid to slam his movies.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Its' Spike Lee and anyone who's been to the cinema in the UK and seen the latest Orange ad with him in it will know what he's like. It's funny watching the film board take the piss out of him.

[Stravo]

What blacks might say in response is that Jews are allowed to have and respect their own distinctive culture, American Indians also have their own distinct culture and no one rags on them for not assimlating or shedding their uniqueness.

They feel as if they are being singled out to be assimlated into what they see as 'white culture'. Sadly my experience growing up among African Americans in school is that part of the 'white culture' that they ridicule is acting white which they mean: well spoken, reading, caring about their own education and all the other traits that would help them pull themselves out of the mess they are in. Instead they have embraced precisely the image and morals that will keep them where they are: the thug life.

No one did that to them. They embraced that freely and its sad to see.

[Darth Wong]

What blacks might say in response is that Jews are allowed to have and respect their own distinctive culture, American Indians also have their own distinct culture and no one rags on them for not assimlating or shedding their uniqueness.

I do. The native American obsession with a dead culture is just sad, and the problems of Jews deliberately standing apart from everyone else are never more evident than they are in the existence of Israel.

They feel as if they are being singled out to be assimlated into what they see as 'white culture'. Sadly my experience growing up among African Americans in school is that part of the 'white culture' that they ridicule is acting white which they mean: well spoken, reading, caring about their own education and all the other traits that would help them pull themselves out of the mess they are in. Instead they have embraced precisely the image and morals that will keep them where they are: the thug life.

No one did that to them. They embraced that freely and its sad to see.

Maybe that's why so many "black leaders" resent Asians so much; Asians are a standing rebuttal to their bullshit that the white man will never let you succeed by playing the white man's game.

[Stravo]

Maybe that's why so many "black leaders" resent Asians so much; Asians are a standing rebuttal to their bullshit that the white man will never let you succeed by playing the white man's game.

That resentment is not just limited to the black leaders. You see it from the people itself against any up and coming immigrant group. They are angry that these johnny come latelies are all rising and living in better neighborhoods, better jobs, their kids are being educated and they immediatley start stewing in their world view that they are somehow being held back, handicapped, kept in their place.

They will not or cannot see the simple fact that these new immgrants usually enbrace so called white culture and most immigrant groups value above all else their children's education. They bring themselves to their points of success and no one helps them, no secret illumanati group says "Today we will elevate the Paksitani and Indian immigrants." "What about the blacks?" "Naw, they need another few generations before we'll allow them to succeed."

The saddest part of all is that their leadership does not recognize this and instead parrots some of the more ignorant bullshit coming from the community about being held back and the invisible grip of racism in America.

Racism exists, but I did not use it as an excuse for not going to law school and making a professional of myself while my father worked his ass off as a waiter to raise his two kids on a single paycheck.

[Mayabird]

I once read some articles where black African immigrants in the US and several-generation black Americans were polled, asking how much racism and discrimination they faced. Nearly all of the Americans claimed to have experienced varying amounts (sometimes a good deal) of discrimination, but the immigrants said they had experienced very little, if any.

[Joe]

I like Spike Lee. He does make good films; The 25th Hour, which really didn't harp on race that much, was a really enjoyable film about post 9/11 NY. But he is kind of racist, and white critics do seem to be afraid to criticize him of this.

[Darth Raptor]

The thing that always bothered me is how there seems to be an open racism double standard in America. I mean, what would happen if I got up and started raving about things like white culture or the white experience? What if I demanded a white magazine or a white entertainment channel or a white history month? I'd have a hard time convincing people I wasn't a Klansman that's what! Racism should be considered bad on all fronts, even from the minority.

[Stravo]

The thing that always bothered me is how there seems to be an open racism double standard in America. I mean, what would happen if I got up and started raving about things like white culture or the white experience? What if I demanded a white magazine or a white entertainment channel or a white history month? I'd have a hard time convincing people I wasn't a Klansman that's what! Racism should be considered bad on all fronts, even from the minority.

To which Black Americans will tell you: "You ALREADY have a white culture and white experience. your magazines vater to that culture, your fashions cater to that mindset, your entertainment in general is geared towarrds the white person and his culture. The African American culture needs to be strrong in order to survive in the midst of such a powerful and assimlating cultuire as the white culture."

And yes, I have dealt with this mindset all my life from people I grew up with.

[Darth Wong]

To which Black Americans will tell you: "You ALREADY have a white culture and white experience. your magazines vater to that culture, your fashions cater to that mindset, your entertainment in general is geared towarrds the white person and his culture. The African American culture needs to be strrong in order to survive in the midst of such a powerful and assimlating cultuire as the white culture."

So the doctrine is to define education and professionalism as "white" properties? Doesn't that mindset guarantee failure? And what about all of the well-educated and professional people of other races, including blacks? I guess we're all whites too, right?

I listen almost exclusively to music made by people who happen to be white. I guess I must not have fought hard enough for my own culture

And yes, I have dealt with this mindset all my life from people I grew up with.

Did you grow up in NYC?

[Stravo]

To which Black Americans will tell you: "You ALREADY have a white culture and white experience. your magazines vater to that culture, your fashions cater to that mindset, your entertainment in general is geared towarrds the white person and his culture. The African American culture needs to be strrong in order to survive in the midst of such a powerful and assimlating cultuire as the white culture."

So the doctrine is to define education and professionalism as "white" properties? Doesn't that mindset guarantee failure? And what about all of the well-educated and professional people of other races, including blacks? I guess we're all whites too, right?

Yes, that was a point I made earlier when many young African Americans have embraced the "Thug Life" and make fun of other kids who act "White" in their eyes. They are called Oreos (black on the outside white on the inside) or worse. Its an awful self perpetuating cycle where sucess is equated with white culture that they must rebel against and "keep it real."

And yes, I have dealt with this mindset all my life from people I grew up with.

Did you grow up in NYC?[/quote]

Born and raised here but I grew up and still live in Washington Heights, bodering Harlem and my school was predominately minority (as was I) with a large black contingent and this was the culture I was exposed to. And the Thug life did not really come into its own until I was in College. But I was there growing up during the birth of rap and the ascendence of the "street" hero.

[Lord Poe]

You only really see this crap in the media, where the (insert name here) leaders whine cry and bitch at anyone who'll listen. In REAL LIFE, I've never experienced half of this crap. From what I've heard black leaders say, I should see white people crossing the street when they see a black persion coming toward them, or clutch their purse closer to them, or see white people purposely sitting on the othr side of the room from the black people.

Where I work, there's no "us against them" attitude, no one is crying because they are a certain race, no one I know gives TWO SHITS for the Al Sharptons or the Spike Lees of the world. I asked one worker to come in on MLK day last month. He said, "I can't work that day, it's a black thang!" I told him I didn't get Columbus Day off, so he has to come in. We had a great laugh about that.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Maybe that's why so many "black leaders" resent Asians so much; Asians are a standing rebuttal to their bullshit that the white man will never let you succeed by playing the white man's game.

I think part of the problem was that for a very long time, the predominant culture in America was focussed on the idea that blacks had a place where they were supposed to be and occasionally had to be put back into. The black militant movements of the 1960s (Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, etc.), IMO, rejected the idea of rapprochement with the majority and instead focussed on the Marcus Garvey idea of a strong and separate Black identity. Modern black minority culture seems to carry that idea as one of its central pillars.

The most fascinating side effect of this thing (the minority culture-within-a-culture which constantly and compulsively asserts itself) is the white people who try to assume the public face of that culture. 'Posers,' 'whiggers,' 'wannabes,' young white men trying to be black, you know the story; Justin Timberlake talking in that ludicrous false accent, etc. I find it all so amusing.

[General Zod]

The most fascinating side effect of this thing (the minority culture-within-a-culture which constantly and compulsively asserts itself) is the white people who try to assume the public face of that culture. 'Posers,' 'whiggers,' 'wannabes,' young white men trying to be black, you know the story; Justin Timberlake talking in that ludicrous false accent, etc. I find it all so amusing.

unfortunately that's a result of people somehow adapting the mindset that it's 'cool' to be the opressed minority, so they want to imitate it.

[RedImperator]

Maybe that's why so many "black leaders" resent Asians so much; Asians are a standing rebuttal to their bullshit that the white man will never let you succeed by playing the white man's game.

I think part of the problem was that for a very long time, the predominant culture in America was focussed on the idea that blacks had a place where they were supposed to be and occasionally had to be put back into. The black militant movements of the 1960s (Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, etc.), IMO, rejected the idea of rapprochement with the majority and instead focussed on the Marcus Garvey idea of a strong and separate Black identity. Modern black minority culture seems to carry that idea as one of its central pillars.

The final irony: now that most of the whites who felt blacks needed to be kept in their place are dead, dying, or irrevelant, the blacks are staying in "their place" of their own free will.

[Defiant]

You only really see this crap in the media, where the (insert name here) leaders whine cry and bitch at anyone who'll listen. In REAL LIFE, I've never experienced half of this crap. From what I've heard black leaders say, I should see white people crossing the street when they see a black persion coming toward them, or clutch their purse closer to them, or see white people purposely sitting on the othr side of the room from the black people.

Unfortunately, its not just in the media. I have had people cross the street when they've seen me coming, and I have seen women clutch their purses tightly when they see me, and I have had white people purposely get up and move somewhere else when I've walked in a room.

Does it suck? Hell yes! Does it make me angry? YES! But I get through it. What else am I going to do, curl up into a little ball and hide? No way am I going to let some jackasses dictate the way I live my life.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Once I was hanging out at the dorms at Berkeley with some of my friends and I called one of them "beeotch". A few blacks overheard this and made comments about it. It is a classic example of one thing about some blacks that annoys me.

Nobody can ever tell a black man he should not talk a certain way, or strive for a certain goal. But sure enough, there are some forms of expression that are black only.

I might catch heat for this but having seen few of the blacks from my high school get far, Ive come to the conclusions that too large a segment of black culture is dysfunctional. I went to high school where there was a black VP, black teachers, etc. So it not that they didnt have role models. Just that like others have mentioned, doing well in school was viewed as selling out to "whitey". An odd notion in a school where white people only make up about 25-30% of the population.

[Defiant]

I recently saw "Get on the Bus", and I have this to say: why do black "entertainers" have to continually harp on the state of being black? After about one quarter of the movie, I was so sick of the movie's overt "look at me, I'm black!" and "let's talk about blackness!" bullshit that I was ready to throw a brick through the TV.

I don't believe it was intended to do that. Other movies of his may have, but not this one. IMO, it showed several individuals who, while they were all black, were individuals. I myself found this refreshing, because there have been times where all blacks have been portrayed as acting in one particular fashion. The people on that bus ranged the entire economic spectrum, from the poor old man who had lost everything, to a couple of guys who were very successful, and everything in between. You had a couple of guys who were racist, and there were even two guys who were homosexual (and even those two were at different ends of political views). The point is that among blacks (just like everyone else) we are all seperate individuals whose choices have dictated the outcome of our lives.

Yes, you're black. Get the fuck over it already. Don't these people realize that they're not solving or helping anything by obsessing over that which makes them different?

You're assuming that all blacks do this. Some do, but most are just trying to get through life the best way they know how, just like everyone else. Maybe its the minority of those that do obsess that grab the attention because they're the most vocal, or maybe those are the ones the media chooses to focus on. I've seen cases of both in my experiences. As for myself, I was not raised that way. The best example of this was when I was in elementary school. After 5th grade, my parents transferred me from the public school I went to (which was 60% black), to a private school (where there were only 3 blacks in a class of about 50). My first year, I heard and experienced things that made me very angy. I got my first n-bomb experience, I had a kid come up to me and ask if my mom breast fed me chocolate milk, and I had two other kids who tried to accuse me of theft. Of course, I complained to my parents and told them that I wanted to leave that school. Know what my parents told me? They said that I would face this kind of thing for the rest of my life, and I could either run from it, or face it and succeed despite of it. They understood what I was going through, but they wouldn't let me run away from the chance of getting a better education. So I stayed and dealt with it. In retrospect, I'm glad I did because it toughened me and made me stronger. And even though I still experience this type of thing, I get through it for two reasons:

1. The racism we experience now is nothing compared to what it was during my parent's generation, and they got through it. And theirs was nothing compared to what my grandparents went through. This encourages me to keep going

2. I refuse to let anyone (white, black, or otherwise) hold me back.

PS. It received critical raves, of course. And naturally, every black guy in the movie refers to every other black guy in the movie as "nigger".

I can't deny this at the beginning. But a curious thing happened during that movie. When that sleazy car salesman got on the bus, and he dropped n-bombs all over the place, the others realized just how shitty that word actually is. In fact, he eventually got thrown off the bus, and you didn't really hear that word aftwards.

As for that word, I hate it, and I have never in my life used it myself, even when talking to other blacks. But as for the use of that word, I'll give my personal opinion. Its all about the context of the use and the familiarity of the user. There's a lot of hate and bad memories associated with that word. When blacks use it with each other, they're speaking from common experience. I personally don't approve of it, but when another black person uses it with me (which isn't very often), I tolerate it once and let them know I don't like it.

When a white person uses it, I again look at the context. If they're attempting to get to know me, and are trying to "fit in" with me, I let them know that I hate that word, and not to use it with me. If they're using it to be hurtful, that's when I start swinging. I had a friend of mine in that same grade school who once called me a "nigger". He wasn't being friendly, he was actually saying it to be hurtful. My fist hit his face so quickly, I hadn't even realized that I had done it until afterwards. The funny thing about it was that later he realized he was wrong and apologized, and we're pretty good friends to this day.

Oh well. I'm sure I've opened the floodgates with this post. Bring on the flames.

[Tsyroc]

Besides, just about anything by Spike Lee sucks donkey balls.

There was one scene in "Mo Better Blues" where Spike Lee (he was playing a character) gets the dog shit beat out of him. That was a pretty good scene.

[Darth Wong]

I don't believe it was intended to do that. Other movies of his may have, but not this one. IMO, it showed several individuals who, while they were all black, were individuals. I myself found this refreshing, because there have been times where all blacks have been portrayed as acting in one particular fashion. The people on that bus ranged the entire economic spectrum, from the poor old man who had lost everything, to a couple of guys who were very successful, and everything in between. You had a couple of guys who were racist, and there were even two guys who were homosexual (and even those two were at different ends of political views). The point is that among blacks (just like everyone else) we are all seperate individuals whose choices have dictated the outcome of our lives.

That's nice, but the fact remains that they were all obsessed with their own blackness, and the movie was too. Far too much of the movie's conversational dialogue revolved around being black.

Yes, you're black. Get the fuck over it already. Don't these people realize that they're not solving or helping anything by obsessing over that which makes them different?

You're assuming that all blacks do this. Some do, but most are just trying to get through life the best way they know how, just like everyone else. Maybe its the minority of those that do obsess that grab the attention because they're the most vocal, or maybe those are the ones the media chooses to focus on. I've seen cases of both in my experiences.

Granted; I was not trying to generalize about all black people, just the people who are making movies like this.

As for myself, I was not raised that way. The best example of this was when I was in elementary school. After 5th grade, my parents transferred me from the public school I went to (which was 60% black), to a private school (where there were only 3 blacks in a class of about 50). My first year, I heard and experienced things that made me very angy. I got my first n-bomb experience, I had a kid come up to me and ask if my mom breast fed me chocolate milk, and I had two other kids who tried to accuse me of theft. Of course, I complained to my parents and told them that I wanted to leave that school. Know what my parents told me? They said that I would face this kind of thing for the rest of my life, and I could either run from it, or face it and succeed despite of it. They understood what I was going through, but they wouldn't let me run away from the chance of getting a better education. So I stayed and dealt with it. In retrospect, I'm glad I did because it toughened me and made me stronger. And even though I still experience this type of thing, I get through it for two reasons:

1. The racism we experience now is nothing compared to what it was during my parent's generation, and they got through it. And theirs was nothing compared to what my grandparents went through. This encourages me to keep going

2. I refuse to let anyone (white, black, or otherwise) hold me back.

I've experienced my share of racism in my life too, but I try not to dwell on it. It reflects on the jackass who makes racist remarks more than it does on me.

PS. It received critical raves, of course. And naturally, every black guy in the movie refers to every other black guy in the movie as "nigger".

I can't deny this at the beginning. But a curious thing happened during that movie. When that sleazy car salesman got on the bus, and he dropped n-bombs all over the place, the others realized just how shitty that word actually is. In fact, he eventually got thrown off the bus, and you didn't really hear that word aftwards.

Yeah, you just get treated to a scene of a street fight between the gay guy and a homophobe, with the rest of the guys on the bus hooting and hollering like idiots. When I saw that, I couldn't help but wonder if Spike Lee was trying to promote negative stereotypes.

As for that word, I hate it, and I have never in my life used it myself, even when talking to other blacks. But as for the use of that word, I'll give my personal opinion. Its all about the context of the use and the familiarity of the user. There's a lot of hate and bad memories associated with that word. When blacks use it with each other, they're speaking from common experience. I personally don't approve of it, but when another black person uses it with me (which isn't very often), I tolerate it once and let them know I don't like it.

When a white person uses it, I again look at the context. If they're attempting to get to know me, and are trying to "fit in" with me, I let them know that I hate that word, and not to use it with me. If they're using it to be hurtful, that's when I start swinging. I had a friend of mine in that same grade school who once called me a "nigger". He wasn't being friendly, he was actually saying it to be hurtful. My fist hit his face so quickly, I hadn't even realized that I had done it until afterwards. The funny thing about it was that later he realized he was wrong and apologized, and we're pretty good friends to this day.

Do you ever hear Asians address each other as "chink" or "Chinaman"? Nope, at least I don't. It's another way of reminding yourselves (and everyone within audible range) of your minority status. Same goes for "nigger", no matter who uses it. "Brotherhood" among blacks is an unhealthy mentality; it implies that all blacks are bound together in a way that can't be shared with other races.

Oh well. I'm sure I've opened the floodgates with this post. Bring on the flames.

I don't see anything flameworthy here, but I disagree that the use of epithets as a racial-bonding technique can be acceptable, or that "Get on the Bus" does anything but reinforce the notion of blacks being separate and distinct from the rest of society.

[Montcalm]

I`ve seen only one Spike Lee movie "Do the right thing" and in it when the racist cops beat the shit out of a guy and carry him away,what does all the blacks do,they go destroy and burn the local pizzeria then they want to trash the Asians store

[Joe]

Incidentally, Mike, this kind of talk would quickly earn you the "racist" label in the U.S. were you a public figure of some sort.

[Defiant]

I don't believe it was intended to do that. Other movies of his may have, but not this one. IMO, it showed several individuals who, while they were all black, were individuals. I myself found this refreshing, because there have been times where all blacks have been portrayed as acting in one particular fashion. The people on that bus ranged the entire economic spectrum, from the poor old man who had lost everything, to a couple of guys who were very successful, and everything in between. You had a couple of guys who were racist, and there were even two guys who were homosexual (and even those two were at different ends of political views). The point is that among blacks (just like everyone else) we are all seperate individuals whose choices have dictated the outcome of our lives.

That's nice, but the fact remains that they were all obsessed with their own blackness, and the movie was too. Far too much of the movie's conversational dialogue revolved around being black.

I can accept that. Guess its a matter of opinion.

As for myself, I was not raised that way. The best example of this was when I was in elementary school. After 5th grade, my parents transferred me from the public school I went to (which was 60% black), to a private school (where there were only 3 blacks in a class of about 50). My first year, I heard and experienced things that made me very angy. I got my first n-bomb experience, I had a kid come up to me and ask if my mom breast fed me chocolate milk, and I had two other kids who tried to accuse me of theft. Of course, I complained to my parents and told them that I wanted to leave that school. Know what my parents told me? They said that I would face this kind of thing for the rest of my life, and I could either run from it, or face it and succeed despite of it. They understood what I was going through, but they wouldn't let me run away from the chance of getting a better education. So I stayed and dealt with it. In retrospect, I'm glad I did because it toughened me and made me stronger. And even though I still experience this type of thing, I get through it for two reasons:

1. The racism we experience now is nothing compared to what it was during my parent's generation, and they got through it. And theirs was nothing compared to what my grandparents went through. This encourages me to keep going

2. I refuse to let anyone (white, black, or otherwise) hold me back.

I've experienced my share of racism in my life too, but I try not to dwell on it. It reflects on the jackass who makes racist remarks more than it does on me.

I wasn't dwelling on it either. Just stating my perspective so you can see what my opinion is based on.

PS. It received critical raves, of course. And naturally, every black guy in the movie refers to every other black guy in the movie as "nigger".

I can't deny this at the beginning. But a curious thing happened during that movie. When that sleazy car salesman got on the bus, and he dropped n-bombs all over the place, the others realized just how shitty that word actually is. In fact, he eventually got thrown off the bus, and you didn't really hear that word aftwards.

Yeah, you just get treated to a scene of a street fight between the gay guy and a homophobe, with the rest of the guys on the bus hooting and hollering like idiots. When I saw that, I couldn't help but wonder if Spike Lee was trying to promote negative stereotypes.

As for that word, I hate it, and I have never in my life used it myself, even when talking to other blacks. But as for the use of that word, I'll give my personal opinion. Its all about the context of the use and the familiarity of the user. There's a lot of hate and bad memories associated with that word. When blacks use it with each other, they're speaking from common experience. I personally don't approve of it, but when another black person uses it with me (which isn't very often), I tolerate it once and let them know I don't like it.

When a white person uses it, I again look at the context. If they're attempting to get to know me, and are trying to "fit in" with me, I let them know that I hate that word, and not to use it with me. If they're using it to be hurtful, that's when I start swinging. I had a friend of mine in that same grade school who once called me a "nigger". He wasn't being friendly, he was actually saying it to be hurtful. My fist hit his face so quickly, I hadn't even realized that I had done it until afterwards. The funny thing about it was that later he realized he was wrong and apologized, and we're pretty good friends to this day.

Do you ever hear Asians address each other as "chink" or "Chinaman"? Nope, at least I don't. It's another way of reminding yourselves (and everyone within audible range) of your minority status. Same goes for "nigger", no matter who uses it. "Brotherhood" among blacks is an unhealthy mentality; it implies that all blacks are bound together in a way that can't be shared with other races.

In fact, I have heard several people of various ethnic groups do this, not just blacks. Is it unhealthy? Probably. And its partially true, various groups are bound together by common experiences. But that doesn't mean those experiences can't be shared, or that someone from another group can't truly understand. I've never been the only person of Asian descent in a group of whites, but if you told me about an experience, I could relate. We're all a minority in one way or another. If it isn't ethnically, then its politically, or gender-based, or by sexual orientation. Its that unwillingness to share the experiences that causes so much trouble.

Oh well. I'm sure I've opened the floodgates with this post. Bring on the flames.

I don't see anything flameworthy here, but I disagree that the use of epithets as a racial-bonding technique can be acceptable, or that "Get on the Bus" does anything but reinforce the notion of blacks being separate and distinct from the rest of society.

Well, if we all agreed on everything, this board would get pretty boring. The fact that we can discuss this issue rationally is so good to me, I'm even willing to deal with all of these damn quotes!