Space Marines Versus Stormtroopers.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-10-13 01:44pm

It's standard on the model.

Jet packs are an upgrade, to form Assault Squads (designed to drop in on top of enemy units and massacre them up close)

Eldritch Storm · Post by **Eldritch Storm** » 2002-10-13 01:50pm

(wow, look-ee, my Seventh post here after a several month long period)

HDS, you asked about Bolters, while, I don't have the exact quotes in my lap, as Storm of Iron is buried somewhere under my case, but according to it, Bolters;

Have mini-thrusters to accelerate the shell after it leaves the Bolter Barrel

Have a rocket tip

Will blow a basket-ball sized hole in your Typical Imperial Guardsman.

I'll go find that quote now, too.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-10-13 01:56pm

Vendetta wrote:It's standard on the model.

Jet packs are an upgrade, to form Assault Squads (designed to drop in on top of enemy units and massacre them up close)

Eh? You mean the normal backpack thing? Thats a power generator for the armour. and air processors for vaccuum

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2002-10-13 01:57pm

Vendetta wrote:It's standard on the model.

Well, if models always reflected the actual "stats" of the model (IE what they actually have), then the Despoiler battleship wouldn't have that huge freaking hanger piece on the front of it, even though it's stats have no such thing. And The Desolator battleship would have 6 lances on each side instead of 4.

Yes I know Battlefleet Gothic doesn't have any real relevance here, I'm just using a couple of ships from it to show that the models do not necessarily represent what the actual unit will have. At it's most basic, 40K is a game, and it's better to go by stats, not models, for what a individual/unit/vehicle/ship/whatever has.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-13 02:05pm

I'm generally equating a stormie rifle to something of a weaker kind of standard lasgun, maybe 50-70% of that one, and they will have different effects, the Lasgun will do deeper penetration while the blaster will act more like a meltagun(I've been researching) and do more damage on the outside so to speak.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-10-13 02:09pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:I'm generally equating a stormie rifle to something of a weaker kind of standard lasgun, maybe 50-70% of that one, and they will have different effects, the Lasgun will do deeper penetration while the blaster will act more like a meltagun(I've been researching) and do more damage on the outside so to speak.

On standard power. On maximum power it would act like a hellgun. (extra powerful lasgun). I wonder.. would a stun blast damage power armour's systems? {just had the amusing image of all the marines falling over

}

Eldritch Storm · Post by **Eldritch Storm** » 2002-10-13 02:15pm

Various tidbits taken from SoI;

Assault Cannons have supersonic shells (pg15)

Guardsmen Hawke unloaded about half the powercell of a Lasgun into an Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marine at about two or three -feet- away and didn't do all that much damage (also pg15)

Little thing on Magma Bombs fired from a Battlebarge.. (pg24)

"the battlebarge Stonebreaker fired three salvos of magma bombs into the desolate rocky slopes surrounding the spaceport, blasting vast chunks of rock hundreds of metres into the air, and flattening almost all torpedo silos in the mountains with unnering accuracy"

A Dreadnaught ripped a several meter thick adamantium door right out of it' place (note, wasn't a hinged door) (Pg36)

a Chaos Space Marine backhanded someone in the face and "decapitated him in an explosion of blood and bone" (pg39)

a Multimelta fired into a bunker incinerated half the troops and turned the rest into 'scorched and blackened limbs' and also warped the barrel on a Leman Russ variant MBT (pg32)

I've gotta go do like...important IRL stuff now, so I'll finish taking down relevant shit later.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-13 02:35pm

NecronLord wrote:On standard power. On maximum power it would act like a hellgun. (extra powerful lasgun). I wonder.. would a stun blast damage power armour's systems? {just had the amusing image of all the marines falling over }

You mean an E-11 on standard kill setting is equal to a lasgun?
I wouldn't take it that far I'd say on it's standard killpower it's only 50-70% of a standard lasgun.

And an E-11 on fullpower is equal to a hell-gun?

I'd guesstimate a fullpower E-11 blast at 5-6MJ of thermal energy though.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-10-13 02:43pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
NecronLord wrote:On standard power. On maximum power it would act like a hellgun. (extra powerful lasgun). I wonder.. would a stun blast damage power armour's systems? {just had the amusing image of all the marines falling over }
You mean an E-11 on standard kill setting is equal to a lasgun?
I wouldn't take it that far I'd say on it's standard killpower it's only 50-70% of a standard lasgun.

And an E-11 on fullpower is equal to a hell-gun?

I'd guesstimate a fullpower E-11 blast at 5-6MJ of thermal energy though.

no, I'd go with yours. On ful power it is probably equal to a hellgun. Just a guess mind.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-13 02:50pm

I'd like to note that the 5-6MJ is just approximated and involved heavy guessing and assumptioning(is that a word?) of MW's figure of 8MJ for a Clone-rifle blasting .5metre craters in ferrocrete.
MW used some mix of steel concrete, but I think it's important to note that Ferrocrete is alot stronger since Coruscants foundation is made of it and the multi kilometer towers are made of it too and have stood for thousands of years.

It's hard to know really.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-10-13 03:15pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:I'd like to note that the 5-6MJ is just approximated and involved heavy guessing and assumptioning(is that a word?) of MW's figure of 8MJ for a Clone-rifle blasting .5metre craters in ferrocrete.
MW used some mix of steel concrete, but I think it's important to note that Ferrocrete is alot stronger since Coruscants foundation is made of it and the multi kilometer towers are made of it too and have stood for thousands of years.

It's hard to know really.

humm...

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-13 04:36pm

Eh?
Elaborate

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-10-13 05:59pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Vendetta wrote:A Standard Marine is equipped with a Bolter and Jump Pack, and wears Powe Armour.
Ok, a bolter is a weapon that fires physical projectiles, any calcs on it?
Same goes for the power armor.

Ah yes I found some info on the armor:
"This is a complete enclosing armour as worn by Space Marines. It is made from thick ceramite plates and would be heavy and cumbersome but for electrically motivated fibre bundles implanted in the armour to replicate the movements of the wearer and supplement his strength. Power armour is fully sealed to provide protection against gas weapons and hard vacuum it also commonly includes numerous auxiliary systems such as communicators, auto-senses, etc. Power armour increases a characters strength by 1 when wearing the armour."

They also get Inertial damperners...where did you get that quote from BTW ?
Sounds like space-trooper armor.

Does sounds like Space Marines have better equipment than stormies yes.

the Lasgun will do deeper penetration while the blaster will act more like a meltagun(I've been researching) and do more damage on the outside so to speak.

Sounds better, although Hellguns act more like the descriptions of Blasters on higher power settings Ive seen.

Will blow a basket-ball sized hole in your Typical Imperial Guardsman.

Or bigger, most of the descriptions I have read of bolter fire..i.e. lots describe disintigration of body parts..

In Storm of Iron the Iron Warriors general who takes out a Titan, shot a Guard in the leg and took it off at the hip..

Marines have skimmers (lowish altitude repulsorcraft

Ive got the stats for a Tornado Speeder somewhere,

They can pull 17 gee turns..

Bolters..

They fire a .75 cal shell at a "relitively" low velocity, a second stage rocket engine ignites and propels the shell into its target.

There are various types, but most are Semi-auto.

The standard bolter round has a Armour piercing "Diamantine" tip, and a DU element.

The main explosive charge is a mass reactive device, that detects when the round has penetrated and then explodes causing damage.

Damage is usually fatal, Head/limb shots will remove said head or limb, a shot to the Torso will splatter bits of Imperial Guardsmen all over.

They will punch straight through the Thermoplas flak armour of Guardsmen, as well as the energy dissapation armour of Eldar.

In Inquisitor the basic damage is enough to rip through Carapace armour, then there an extra 20 possible damage.

In inquisitor, a direct bolter hit usually causes severe damage, crippling is not uncommon, and your average human better have a Medskull handy..or a priest.

There are various types of ammo availiable, not really standard issue, but Marines do get to play with them, Hellfire shells in particular for Heavy bolters.

Hellfire rounds do basic bolter damage, plus extra for a payload of mutagenic acids and razor ceramic shards.

Metal storm rounds blow up before they ht the target and create a hail of shrapnel.

Kraken penetrators are super armour penetrators

Stalker shells are used by the scouts and for covert ops..lower velocity, but unobtrusive.

BTW, the basic damage for Flamers will also penetrate base carapace armour....

Space Marine armour gets bonuses for being hit with melta, plasma and flamer weapons due to its ceramite composition

Oh, I think someone mentioned stun setting ?

There are several types of stun weapons in Inquisitor, none interfere with Power armour.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-13 06:20pm

Would the "let the navigator show the entire massed ranks of stormies its third eye" trick work (from the book "Harlequin" when Lex has to work on the navigators eye and uses his power armour as a shield)? Or do they have similar psychic shielding/ability to stop that kind of thing as 40K Power Armour?

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-10-13 06:21pm

white_rabbit: What kind of artillery does the Imperium have anyway?

Off-Topic: I'm curious about something. Perhaps you could help. The Imperium has all this fancy weaponry, psionic powers, and the like, right?

So how do the Chaos Spawn stand up to them in combat? All they seem to have is archaic weaponry, magical and all, but kind of useless against artillery and the like.

So what threat do they truly pose? Because of sheer numbers? Corruptive effect? Psionic powers? Or do they buy alien weaponry and employ it or what?

A little help please?

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-10-13 06:37pm

Antediluvian wrote:white_rabbit: What kind of artillery does the Imperium have anyway?

Off-Topic: I'm curious about something. Perhaps you could help. The Imperium has all this fancy weaponry, psionic powers, and the like, right?

So how do the Chaos Spawn stand up to them in combat? All they seem to have is archaic weaponry, magical and all, but kind of useless against artillery and the like.

So what threat do they truly pose? Because of sheer numbers? Corruptive effect? Psionic powers? Or do they buy alien weaponry and employ it or what?

A little help please?

I posted a brief summary on Imperial ground warfare technology about 2 pages ago..

By Chaos Spawn, do you mean Chaos marines , or Daemons, ???

Cultists are employed by several of the Renegade chapters as support troops and Cannon fodder, in Storm of Iron the Iron Warriors used cheaply , but basic weapon equipped humans as their ablative force.

Some are going to be just crappy gangs, maybe with some pretentions to chaos worship, some are renegage Imperial Guard or PDF troops.. well equipped and trained, with fanatical zeal...etc etc

The real threat of Cultists is when they get hold of some psykers,

An Alpha + level psyker is extremely dangerous..

When around 30 escaped into a Hive city, they scattered and fought.

1 psyker killed 2 space marines, 800 Imperial Guardsmen, several Inquisitors and a few Arbites officers and devastated an area several kilometers around.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-10-13 06:46pm

Antediluvian wrote:white_rabbit: What kind of artillery does the Imperium have anyway?

Space Marines have support from Whrlwinds (think MLRS) and Vindicators (Large gun, short range, massive power). Imperial Guard use meatier things, and have super-heavy battle tanks and mobile fortress transporters (things that can hold a whole army)

Antediluvian wrote:Off-Topic: I'm curious about something. Perhaps you could help. The Imperium has all this fancy weaponry, psionic powers, and the like, right?

So how do the Chaos Spawn stand up to them in combat? All they seem to have is archaic weaponry, magical and all, but kind of useless against artillery and the like.

So what threat do they truly pose? Because of sheer numbers? Corruptive effect? Psionic powers? Or do they buy alien weaponry and employ it or what?

A little help please?

Chaos forces are most commonly corrupted versions of humans that turned during the Horus Heresy. They use Imperium technology melded and infested with Daemons, aslong with some of their own magic. (Chaos Titans are both greater Daemons and massive war machines at the same time)

Different chaos powers use different mixtures of things, Tzeentch relies more on magical power, Khorne on brute force, Nurgle on pestilence and corruption, and Slaanesh on temptation and pleasure.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-13 06:47pm

Tornado Speeder
They can pull 17 gee turns..

Wow
Ok so TIEs can turn oooh by a factor of 20x tighter than that even in an Atmosphere and are faster too with weapons that can burn it from the Sky in a shot or two

Ok So in Air-Combat at least the Marines are outclassed

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-10-13 06:54pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Tornado Speeder
They can pull 17 gee turns..

Wow
Ok so TIEs can turn oooh by a factor of 20x tighter than that even in an Atmosphere and are faster too with weapons that can burn it from the Sky in a shot or two

Ok So in Air-Combat at least the Marines are outclassed

A landspeeder is an open two man vehicle, more like an attack helicopter. It's a ground support craft, not a space superiority ighter (besides which, the TIE squadrons are attached to the Imperial Navy, not the Stormtrooper divisions, wheras Landspeeders are part of a Marine chapter.)

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-10-13 06:57pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Tornado Speeder
They can pull 17 gee turns..

Wow
Ok so TIEs can turn oooh by a factor of 20x tighter than that even in an Atmosphere and are faster too with weapons that can burn it from the Sky in a shot or two

Ok So in Air-Combat at least the Marines are outclassed

I wouldnt say that...

Not with handy Thunderhawk Gunships to kick some unshielded Tie arse!

Multiple auto-tracking Lascannons, Heavy bolters etc, missiles and a large nasty Turbolaser...

Speeders are fast support vehicles...they aint whats gonna be engaging the Ties....so you can take your sarcasm and shove it

That will probably done by Whirlwind AA units..Yes, they do exist, they are releasing a model..so there if anyone wants to claim Im making stuff up. e-mail Forgeworld and then shut up

Or Storm Bolters/Heavy Bolters.

But really, I suppose it would better to combat Ties with Lightnings and so forth, or the Imperial Guards Hydra AA batteries etc...if its becoming a Combined arms fight.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-10-13 08:12pm

Multimelta.

"..the air within the bunker ignited with atomic fury, spurts of vapourised flesh and superheated oxygen blasting from the weapons slits...Its walls ( the bunkers)..flowing like wax across the ground...those stationed too close to the bunker, the backwash of the melta impact had burnt flesh and bone to cinders in an instant.."

Space Marines in combat etc

" He spun, plucking the pistol from the man and tearing the hand from his wrist "

"Lashed out with his fist, reducing the slaves ribs to splinters"

Maximum yield Laspistol at close range on a Marine

" Kroeger rocked back on his heels as the impact blaster a crater in his armour, before the Imperial could shoot again he was upon him, backhanding him across the face and decapitating him "

"kicked another soldier in the gut, rupturing his belly and shattering his spine "

" Forrix swept his power glove..through the chest of a man wearing a re-inforced flak vest,his upper body exploding in flesh and bone "

"inside was darkness, but Gorans enhanced vision easily pierced the gloom"

Titan combat with Land Raiders

" ..Carlson...lashed out with his Titans foot catching the closest vehicle...buckling its armoured hull with ease and hurling the wreck through the air.."

Thats how you play football with 80 tonne tanks!

Titan weapon leak.

"gouts of searing energy...vapourised a 100 men"

Thats just a mild energy leak..

Bolters

" ...shooting him in the head...blood sprayed from the stump.."

" and my bolter is 0.75 cal, diamantine tipped with a depleted uranium core..."

" A clutch of humans fell, their bodies blown apart by the bursts "

" Sparks flew as his shots (bolter) richocheted off the spacemarines armour"

A torpedo..

The first stage exploded, flattening everything within 300 metres and blasting a crater 50 metres deep, the tail section blew and thrust the torpedo deeper into the rock...the more powerful centre charge detonated with the power of the sun, ripping the rock of tor christo apart..Night became day as blinding light fountained from the impact, tank sized chunks of rock where hurled through the air like pebbles as an expanding wave of smoke and dust filled the valley. The thunderclap of the detonation was like a hammer of the gods..and a surging mushroom billowed a thousand metres in the air, hurling debris and burning rock in all directions..the crater in the centre of the promontory expanded rapidly tonnes of rubble and artillery sliding into the fiery pit..millions of tonnes of rock slid with a tortured groan...the death toll had reached 10,000 by the time the light of the detonation and the blast wave had faded.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-10-13 08:51pm

Terminators in combat.

"The warrior ducked an rolled aside, Forrixs blow smashing an iron prop apart and pulverising a huge section of wall, rock and dust filled the air...He pistoned his fist through the space marines chest smashing his ribcage and ripping out his heart and lungs...bolter fire blasted the rock away and pounded his armour, Somehow a bolt found its way though his shoulder guard and blood ran from the wound"

"Forrix fired the underslung meltagun, the white hot blast punched into the Imperial Fist, incinerating his torso with a hissing detonation, the oxygen rich blood flashing into steam, a pile of armoured limbs and a head dropped to the ground, the cauterised stumps hissing.."

"the Imperial fired, hosing Forrix with bullets, he rocked under the impacts then fired"

"Forrix roared in battlefury as he felt the crackling blade of a powersword rip through his armour, between his ribs and into his heart, angrily he slammed down on the blade , removing it from the Marines grip before tearing off his arm with a backhand, he shouldercharged the other, crushing his helmet against the wall before disembowelling the marine.."

" Gunfire hammered him and he felt the boneshield in his chest crack as a boltershell exploded inside his armour..He pulled the sword out of is chest and hacked the Marines legs out from under him"

" A bolt took Forrix high in the temple, blasting a portion of his helmet free...slammed into his visor ripping his helmet away and shattering his jaw...he felt the wide blade of another sword pierce his chest, tear through his lungs and burst out the back of his armour, He gripped the sword blade and smashed his powerfist down upon the blurred shape, breaking it apart in a flurry of crushing blows, His chest burned in agony as his secondary heart and Multilung fought to keep him alive after the massive trauma his body had suffered "

This combat was fought in a tunnel flooded with toxic waste that had reduced armour humans to drowned and rotted corpses, the Terminator was immersed in this, first with a helmet, then without a helmet..

He survived both times happily (sortof) and slaughtered a dozen or so Space Marine assualt troopers..

I do think Terminators would do rather well in ISD boarding actions..

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-10-14 08:02am

bump...

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-14 02:16pm

There are 9000 stormies and 30.000 other soldiers and officers on an ISD, if they can lay down a choke point with heavy repeating blasters they could take down a terminator I think.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-10-14 02:50pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:There are 9000 stormies and 30.000 other soldiers and officers on an ISD, if they can lay down a choke point with heavy repeating blasters they could take down a terminator I think.

Unless he cuts though the walls with Lightnng Claws, allowing a comrade with an Assault Cannon to stomp around behind the ambush......

(Assault Cannons are pure death to infantry)

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Space Marines Versus Stormtroopers.

Well ?