Return of the King Discussion Thread (MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-02-08 07:59pm

T-1000 wrote:
Meest wrote:Thought it was great way of cutting all the necessary parts of the book to make the movie work. George Lucas really needs to pull a miracle to top this.
Not even, I would go far as to suggest that it is impossible for Lucas to top this. While being as brash and thoughtless as possible, I would say that there is simply nothing Lucas could do in episode 3 that would possibly be able to outdo ROTK.

Sure there is. But he won't do it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-02-09 05:03am

Joe wrote:
Sure there is. But he won't do it.

A kickass space battle would be enough to top it in my book.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-02-09 03:11pm

Vendetta wrote:It's also hogwash.

There was nothing special about Merry stabbing the Witch King other than the distraction it provided.

Anyone could have killed him at any time, however at the fall of Angmar Glorfindel sees some flash of how he is killed, and that's where the prophecy comes from about his doom being far off and not falling at the hand of mortal man. (ie. He knew it weas a woman that stabbed him in the face)

There was nothing special about Merry, but there was something special about the weapon he used (in the book, at least). It had been forged using old Numenorean methods that allowed it to harm wraiths. Merry's blow alone could not have killed the Witch King, but without it, Eowyn's blow wouldn't have harmed him, since she only had a mundane blade.

Other weapons existed that could also have done the job: Glamdring and Anduril in particular. The Ringwraiths fled from Glorfindel at the Ford of Bruinen for good reason, as well, since he had the means to harm them.

The Ringwraiths weren't indestructible, but you did need to have the right tool for the job.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2004-02-09 03:16pm

Ted C wrote:
There was nothing special about Merry, but there was something special about the weapon he used (in the book, at least). It had been forged using old Numenorean methods that allowed it to harm wraiths. Merry's blow alone could not have killed the Witch King, but without it, Eowyn's blow wouldn't have harmed him, since she only had a mundane blade.

Actually Eowyn never would have had the chance to stab the witch king were it not for Merry's stab. And mundane blade or not I tend to think it would have hurt the witch king even if she did what she did without Merry's help. Just because Merry's blade stabbed the witch king doesn't necessarily mean its attributes would be carried over to Eowyn's sword.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-09 03:21pm

Melkor wrote:Actually Eowyn never would have had the chance to stab the witch king were it not for Merry's stab. And mundane blade or not I tend to think it would have hurt the witch king even if she did what she did without Merry's help.

It probably would have. But remember Frodo got a shot in on the Witch-King with his Barrow-blade and it didn't kill him. So it's unlikely that Eowyn's sword would have done the job alone, even had she been able to deliver it earlier.

Melkor wrote:Just because Merry's blade stabbed the witch king doesn't necessarily mean its attributes would be carried over to Eowyn's sword.

No, but it probably did help to weaken whatever magic animated the Witch-King and gave him form.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2004-02-09 04:42pm

Stormbringer wrote:
It probably would have. But remember Frodo got a shot in on the Witch-King with his Barrow-blade and it didn't kill him. So it's unlikely that Eowyn's sword would have done the job alone, even had she been able to deliver it earlier.

All Frodo's sword hit was the Witch Kings cloak. As Aragorn says if it had hit the WK himself that sword also would have disintegrated.

Stormbringer wrote: No, but it probably did help to weaken whatever magic animated the Witch-King and gave him form.

Thats true, good point.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-09 04:47pm

All Frodo's sword hit was the Witch Kings cloak. As Aragorn says if it had hit the WK himself that sword also would have disintegrated.

Given that Frodo was sans sword...

Thats true, good point.

Yes.

Melkor · Post by **Melkor** » 2004-02-09 08:52pm

Stormbringer wrote: Given that Frodo was sans sword...

What do you mean? Frodo still had his sword after Weathertop. It broke at the Fords of Bruinen when he fell off Asfaloth. Bilbo gives him Sting because he kept the other sword but forgot to have the elves reforge it.