Castro dogs the U.S... But brings up some interesting...

[Superman]

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34 ... d&cat=cuba

Wow, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate, no illiteracy and free health care... even after years of U.S. sanctions! Interesting...

[Vympel]

LOL: "Bush couldn't debate a Cuban 9th grader"

Probably true. I think Dubya's mental development stopped sometime before that. Maybe he lived next to a nukular power plant.

[Superman]

On the flip side of that coin

http://www.chicoer.com/Stories/0,1413,1 ... 07,00.html

[Glocksman]

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34 ... d&cat=cuba

Wow, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate, no illiteracy and free health care... even after years of U.S. sanctions! Interesting...

That's if you trust Cuba's official statistics.

Given the long history of Communist states lying like rugs in their official statistics, I'd sooner trust Clinton if he took an oath of celibacy.

[Superman]

According to the Chico ER, these are true statistics. Maybe we could check some other sources as well.

[Glocksman]

But how do we verify the stats published by a Communist police state?
If Fidel isn't lying, Cuba has a higher literacy rate than Switzerland.

The only data I would trust would be that obtained independently by a third party working in Cuba. UNESCO gets its data from the Cuban government.

Any data the Cuban government collects is automatically suspect in my mind.

Don't get me wrong, Castro has made some improvments, notably in the field of health care, but does that justify a level of repression that would make the Gestapo blush?

Batista was corrupt, yes, but he wasn't an egomaniacal Stalinist like Fidel is.

Also when you hear about the Cuban literacy rate, keep in mind that even before Castro, Cuba had the highest literacy rate in Latin America and one of the highest standards of living. Castro made some improvments, but he didn't do anything revolutionary in regards to the literacy level of the Cuban people.

[RedImperator]

The much vaunted high literacy rate disgusises the fact that the Cuban education system is hardly better than a Pakistani madrass. All the kids can read, and what they get to read is Communist propaganda from start to finish.

I assume their math education is pretty good too, considering how many engineers Cuba turns out (real engineers, not "sanitation engineers" and whatnot). On the other hand, being an engineer in Cuba pays less than being a sanitation engineer in the US, and even if it payed well there'd be nothing to buy.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I assume their math education is pretty good too, considering how many engineers Cuba turns out (real engineers, not "sanitation engineers" and whatnot). On the other hand, being an engineer in Cuba pays less than being a sanitation engineer in the US, and even if it payed well there'd be nothing to buy.

They've also got a shitload of doctors who are apparently competent. But they also get paid almost nothing.

[Axis Kast]

That "free health care" consists of access to only the most basic medicines. Like the A great many of these statistics lose their impact when digested in context. Cuba’s health care infrastructure is, for example, no better than that of Iraq during the 1980s. Both nations tended to produce a great many doctors by proportion to the regional average, but the system itself was dominated (A) by what we in the West might call “simple” medicine, and (B) even more important, by reactive rather than preventative treatment. Cuban doctors proscribe medications and treatments; their doctrine does not, however, emphasize the healthy, resistant individual. The United States, by contrast, devotes significant energy to encouraging healthy lifestyles and instigating the use of daily supplements; Cuba does not. And, of course, aside from these basic considerations, there’s such a disparity in terms of technology and specialized treatment methods to begin with.

And, incidentally, Cuba sometimes boasts of uniquely low figures for HIV and AIDS cases – precisely because they build “colonies” for the purpose of containing such persons.

[Nathan F]

Since when did Castro loose the paramilitary look and get the business suit?

[Mayabird]

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34 ... d&cat=cuba

Wow, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate, no illiteracy and free health care... even after years of U.S. sanctions! Interesting...

That's if you trust Cuba's official statistics.

Given the long history of Communist states lying like rugs in their official statistics, I'd sooner trust Clinton if he took an oath of celibacy.

Yes, but at the same time Communist countries (at least, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and Cuba was a subsidiary of the Soviet Union) did have a good tract record for making their population literate. Of course, the problem later was if they would have anything to read at all, but they could read and write.

Not saying I support them, but it's the truth.

[Glocksman]

The best non-governmental estimates of the Cuban literacy level I've seen are between 70-80% percent (based on the tested literacy level of refugees from Cuba).

Respectable, but a far cry from the 97%+ claimed by Castro and only an incremental improvement from the 60+% pre-Castro literacy level, not the revolutionary overhaul his defenders would have you believe.

As I said earlier, Castro has done some good for the Cuban people.
The problem is that he's also an egomaniac of Stalinist proportions.

[Master of Ossus]

Yes, but at the same time Communist countries (at least, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and Cuba was a subsidiary of the Soviet Union) did have a good tract record for making their population literate. Of course, the problem later was if they would have anything to read at all, but they could read and write.

Not saying I support them, but it's the truth.

Those statistics are fairly misleading because the nations in which communism arose tended to have exceptionally poor literacy rates compared with capitalist nations, and also had extremely poor education systems and quality control standards. Simply by standardizing public schooling and developing stronger governments capable of enforcing literacy laws, many communist countries were able to rapidly increase literacy rates compared with capitalist nations that appeared to stagnate in terms of education. However, they had the advantage that they were plaing catch-up, and today the former USSR nations boast weaker literacy rates than most developed western countries.

[Ma Deuce]

Uh huh... Perhaps El Presedente could answer one simple question: If life in Cuba is as wonderful as you claim, why are so many of your citizens trying to defect to the US? .

[h0rus]

Uh huh... Perhaps El Presedente could answer one simple question: If life in Cuba is as wonderful as you claim, why are so many of your citizens trying to defect to the US? .

Did he say it was wonderful? He's saying that the country is 'managing' even with the trade sanctions. managing!=wonderful. Maybe those people want a better shot in a stronger country? Your comment doesn't invalidate that claim.

[Ma Deuce]

Did he say it was wonderful? He's saying that the country is 'managing' even with the trade sanctions. managing!=wonderful. Maybe those people want a better shot in a stronger country? Your comment doesn't invalidate that claim.

Did you even read the article? Castro is clearly trying to imply that quality of life in Cuba is better than in the United States by using bullshit claims (judging by the aforementioned literacy rates of the Cuban refugees). Besides, did it ever once occur to you that Cuba is a neo-stallinist police state, and maybe thats part of the reason so many Cubans have expatriated to the US?

Dammit! Why won't Castro just hurry up and expire?!

[Uraniun235]

Maybe Cuba wouldn't be quite the shithole it is if we didn't sanction the fuck out of it.

[Glocksman]

Maybe Cuba wouldn't be quite the shithole it is if we didn't sanction the fuck out of it.

Doubtful.

The rest of the world trades with Cuba and will sell them the things the US wont. The US isn't the sole source for anything Cuba needs except perhaps parts for all of the 1950's cars you see still in use on the island.


The problem is Castro's government has fucked things up so badly that Cuba has nothing to trade with except cigars and sugar. And given Communism's stunning successes with agriculture, you can see just how much those are worth.


The only thing the sanctions really do is give Castro something to blame his failures on.

[Joe]

Maybe Cuba wouldn't be quite the shithole it is if we didn't sanction the fuck out of it.

Castro has an interesting dilemma going on in Cuba. On one hand, he prides himself on how he has created this wonderful life for his people (in theory, anyway) without decadent American capitalism. Yet, he contradicts himself when he demands Bush allow Cuba to participate in the very thing he despises.

[Howedar]

The best non-governmental estimates of the Cuban literacy level I've seen are between 70-80% percent (based on the tested literacy level of refugees from Cuba).

Would not refugees tend to have a lower literacy rate than the overall Cuban population? I'd expect the undereducated to be the least able to get good jobs (such as they are in Cuba) and therefore the most likely to try to get out.

[Glocksman]

Here's a comparative list of pre-Castro and post-revolution statistics.

Cuba is the only country in Latin America whose production of rice has fallen since 1958, when it ranked fourth in the region in production of this staple. Two of the countries ranking ahead of Cuba in rice production in 1958 -- Colombia and Peru -- have since seen their rice production grow by more than three fold. Cuba's Caribbean neighbor, the Dominican republic, has increased its rice production by four fold since 1958. Perhaps even more telling are Cuba's yields per hectare in rice production. Whereas the Dominican Republic has increased rice yields from 2100 kg per hectare in 1958 to 5400 kg per hectare in 1996, Cuba's yields today are only 2500 kg per hectare, a negligible increase from the 2400 kg per hectare registered in 1958, according to UN FAO data.

A closer look at some basic food groups reveals that Cubans now have less access to cereals, tubers, and meats than they had in the late 1940's. According to 1995 UN FAO data, Cuba's per capita supply of cereals has fallen from 106 kg per year in the late 1940's to 100 kg today, half a century later. Per capita supply of tubers and roots shows an even steeper decline, from 91 kg per year to 56 kg. Meat supplies have fallen from 33 kg per year to 23 kg per year, measured on a per capita basis.

Although some would blame Cuba's food problems on the U.S. embargo, the facts suggest that the food shortages are a function of an inefficient collectivized agricultural system -- and a scarcity of foreign exchange resulting from Castro's unwillingness to liberalize Cuba's economy, diversify its export base, and pay off debts owed to its Japanese, European, and Latin American trading partners during the years of abundant soviet aid. This foreign exchange shortage has severely limited Cuba's ability to purchase readily-available food supplies from Canada, Latin America, and Europe. The U.S. Embargo has added, at most, relatively small increases in transportation costs by forcing Cuba to import food from non - U.S. sources elsewhere in the hemisphere

This report is reproduced on the No Castro site, but it was authored by the US State Department in 1998.

[Glocksman]

The best non-governmental estimates of the Cuban literacy level I've seen are between 70-80% percent (based on the tested literacy level of refugees from Cuba).

Would not refugees tend to have a lower literacy rate than the overall Cuban population? I'd expect the undereducated to be the least able to get good jobs (such as they are in Cuba) and therefore the most likely to try to get out.

My personal belief is that the true rate is somewhere in between the refugee rate and the Cuban government published rate. The refugees tested were from the Mariel boatlift.

Something to consider is that a lot of refugees from Communist countries are political refugees, not economic refugees. In fact, most of the Cubans who fled to the US immediately following the revolution were of the educated middle class.

Even during the heyday of Soviet aid, a lot of Cubans fled Cuba.
Fully 10% of the population (more than 1 million Cubans) fled to the US between 1960 and 1995.