What would trek look like if all tech is applied logically

[Isolder74]

uh whats wrong with techno-wanking? I mean this is sci fi right?

Right, but when someone who's never designed anything in his life tries to "design" something in sci-fi, the result tends to incorporate the childish assumption that you can just put unlimited amounts of everything you like into it without penalty. People tend to design phallic uber-power machines.

Sci-fi just gives people more opportunity to be asinine about it. We can all see how stupid it is when Manji does it with MODERN technology (see moronic mile-long battleship idea, or giant tank with 16" guns), but when sci-fi fans do it with fictional futuristic technology, they are often incapable of seeing the problem.

There is mile long ship design(The Freedom Ship) out there but it is basically a giant floatong city and will probably never get built.

[Master of Ossus]

Incidentally, Freedom Ship is another terrible idea. It will fail economically, even if it is somehow constructed.

[Isolder74]

here's a picture of it


And its web site
http://www.freedomship.com/

[Isolder74]

How about black hulls, and NO FUCKING LIGHTS ON THE OUTSIDE OF TEH SHIP!

Formation lights are nessesary the others can go

[SWPIGWANG]

If they still need formation lights with ftl seners and down to the quantum state accuracy....

Right, but when someone who's never designed anything in his life tries to "design" something in sci-fi, the result tends to incorporate the childish assumption that you can just put unlimited amounts of everything you like into it without penalty. People tend to design phallic uber-power machines.

Well, the fact is sci-fi is filled with those penis-envy designs anyway. I mean sci-fi repeated break laws of physics and sanity just for it to look cool. We pop up almost unproven and often impossible physics like warp and hyperspace. The vehicle designs are no smarter, from 1 gillion weapon tanks with impossible armor to computers faster than planck's time. The impossible top speed of many non-ftl ships also places much doubt. Also think about all the macross/robotech missiles and imperium tanks with half a dozen guns. Lets not get into the control problems of 4000g acceleration fighters with only eyeball mk1 or the problems with energy shields.

But sci-fi we are talking about here is really fantasy with technobabble replacing magic. And the good part about technobabble, unlike magic, is that it can be some what consistant, but it is not consistant enough to stop techo-wanking :p

[Patrick Degan]

The real question, I think, should be "what if ST technology was designed logically"? Suppose that the designers for Star Trek were capable of thinking along the lines of form following function? What would be the result?

The result was TOS' version of the Enterprise.

Say what you might of the overall design (which was an effort to break away from many of the clichéd missile-shaped spacecraft used in so many SF movies of the period), the original USS Enterprise was a testament to the philosophy of form following function. In large measure, this was due to the fact that the gentleman who designed the starship for the series, Walter Matt Jefferies, had himself been a B-17 pilot during the Second World War. He certainly understood how machines worked and how they were built, and this thinking is reflected in his form for the starship. Subsequent writers who also had experience beyond the world of television also had some idea of how a thing is supposed to work or how it can work believably, and this process was also helped along by the notes and consultations of a Rand Corporation physicist named Harvey Lynn. Many of his observations were executed into the design of the sets and the overall tech of the original series.

Now, warp drive is impossible, at least as far as we can possibly know. It will probably never be possible to devise a practical means of traveling FTL. We accept this under "suspension of disbelief" rules becuase we know that conventional propulsion will never get us to Alpha Centauri or Rigel within anyone's lifetime. Given these conditions, the designers sought to provide the Enterprise with a propulsion system and power source which could not be readily shot down as unbelievable by even a high school physics student. Warp drive may, as a scientific concept, be unbelievable, but it is certainly more believable than rocket-thrusting your way across the galaxy, and that was the point.

Same for the matter/antimatter power source; it was reasoned logically that ordinary nuclear fission would be utterly inadequate to the requirements of providing sufficent energy for the ship to do what it has to in the episodes. Controlled fusion power, which was itself almost SF back then, wasn't considered sufficent to transcend common-sense objections. Hence, the matter/antimatter reactor in combination with lithium (later dilithium) crystals used as a power-converter or transducer. Not perfect by any means, particularly since subsequent writers seemed to get confused over how everything fit into the overall system, but at least the writers weren't coming up with anything in the epiaodes which would cause anyone to say "this is BULLSHIT!" while watching.

The transporters, as originally envisioned and executed, was another concession to production convenience but also logically utilised in the series. The series designers and writers understood that the things could do only one thing and one thing only: getting people to and from the ship. That's ALL they did. The transporters were also limited in their function: no willy-nilly site-to-site beaming, no pattern-buffer jiggery pokery or whatever other bullshit the TNG-era writers have piled up over the years to make the things capable of doing anything. Transporters in TOS were single-function devices. This makes considerable sense in and of itself.

TOS wins in the believability catagory because of the number of things they got right in the design of the ship. The bridge layout was envisioned to provide the captain with full intelligence on everything that was going on. And while the ship did have those circuitry access tubes sandwiched into some tight spaces, there were also easily-accessible maintenance conduits located in the corridors, the rooms, and even under the control consoles. While the Enterprise did have a main matter/antimatter reactor, it also had multiple auxilliary reactors onboard (referred to in "Catspaw", "Who Mourns For Adonais" and "Day Of The Dove"), emergency batteries, and power transducers. Dilithium crystals, in TOS, seemed to fulfill the function of converting the magnetic flux from the M/AM reaction into electrical power rather than as some sort of reaction moderator in the TNG scheme; hence their placing within power converter assemblies rather than at the core of the reactor itself.

The TOS Enterprise, in every episode, appears to have only one forward twin emitter assembly and a single photon torpedo launch tube. The ship is not bristling with weaponry over every section and the oft-referred to "phaser banks" seem to describe not seperate weapons emplacements but rather to power reserve banks which are charged up prior to battle ("Balance Of Terror", "The Doomsday Machine"). In this aspect, starship combat capability in TOS seems to follow the submarine model rather than that of the battleship.

The Enterprise computer, in TOS, seems to be a comparatively simple affair. It runs the ship's systems, can sort and analyse data, read recorded information, display systems status both through information screen displays and simple analogue indicators, and has only a limited degree of interactivity dependent upon the usage of the wafer-like "tapes" which had to be fed into reader slots (somewhat like the X-Box). In short, the ship has a basic cybernetic control and feedback-monitoring system. And in point of fact, it is not really necessary to have anything more complex to run a starship. The ship had a number of seperate computers which could be linked into the ship's main computer banks when necessary but which were not seperate terminals sharing a common server. This is utility design as opposed to the TNG-era full-service AI. And while such a concept was not conceivable quite in 1966, even in our era of the PC and the internet, no military or NASA designer would dream of rigging a ship's system along such lines. Greater complexity means more than can fail, and this would be fatal to a starship in any real world —a concept unfamiliar to most TV writers today.

The believability of Trek technology began to nosedive the moment they failed to consult engineering logic in favour of what looked cool and what served the needs of plot-convenience and left the design of the series wholly to the art directors and soap-opera writers. The degeneration was accelerated when they decided that everthing had to be explained down to the Nth degree —especially to justify some new capability they invented for a given script which didn't exist beforehand.

After ten-plus years of this process, its no wonder that Treknology makes no damn sense today.

[Enlightenment]

After ten-plus years of this process, its no wonder that Treknology makes no damn sense today.

Indeed. The way Trek tech looks today is very much a result of a group of technically illiterate hacks 'adopting' technologies, both from prior Trek and elsewhere, without having the slightest clue about why that technology existed or was used in the first place.

The current bunch of Trek people are the kind of technological dolts who'd look at a ship, see the propeller, and decide that a Trek ship must have a prop because it's a ship too. Never once would they stop to consider why[i/] water ships have props and why they're not useful on spacecraft.

[ClaysGhost]

...Dilithium crystals, in TOS, seemed to fulfill the function of converting the magnetic flux from the M/AM reaction into electrical power rather than as some sort of reaction moderator in the TNG scheme; hence their placing within power converter assemblies rather than at the core of the reactor itself.

What magnetic flux?

[Patrick Degan]

...Dilithium crystals, in TOS, seemed to fulfill the function of converting the magnetic flux from the M/AM reaction into electrical power rather than as some sort of reaction moderator in the TNG scheme; hence their placing within power converter assemblies rather than at the core of the reactor itself.

What magnetic flux?

An electron/positron collision generates a Pair Electromagnetic Pulse; the M/AM reaction analogue to the EMP effect which accompanies fission and fusion reactions. The effect was observed in the study of gamma ray bursters conducted by the Chandra and Rossi-Levi satellites and announced last year. The press release on the study can be found at: http://www.cnrs.fr/cw/en/pres/compress/SursautGamma.htm

Besides, how else would you imagine energy could be extracted from a matter/antimatter reaction?

[NecronLord]

Logical trek Design; Ra'kolth class modular frigate, (Romulan)

length 90M
Bredth 90M
Depth 30M

1. It's balck.
2. It uses three TOS era warp cores, and therefore does not go BANG when someone sneezes,
3. Cloaking device a la ST:VI
4. Point defense disrupetes by the engines to eliminate pesky homing torpedoes.
5. Six largely empty spaces in the hull, put what you like in them. e.g. torpedo launchers. fighter bays (yes the romulans have a fighter, it's probably useless though)
6. Unmanned
7. Swarm Principle.
8. It fits with trek continuity while outclassing fed ships twice it's size.

[EmperorMing]

Apply treknology with logic and they will loose thier plot devices...Oh wait, that's a good thing...

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Well, shields wouldn't be set at a certian frequency, the war core would be more than 0.001% efficent, holodecks wouldn't be so common, phasers would be more ergonomic, there wouldn't be so many touchscreens, the Enterprise series wouldn't exist since the crew won't run into a problem with dumb engineering, and that would mean that in the futire, people have brains after all.

[EmperorMing]

Which means we could get to see well written shows with good plot devices and real drama, and not some B&B wankfest.

[ClaysGhost]

An electron/positron collision generates a Pair Electromagnetic Pulse; the M/AM reaction analogue to the EMP effect which accompanies fission and fusion reactions. The effect was observed in the study of gamma ray bursters conducted by the Chandra and Rossi-Levi satellites and announced last year. The press release on the study can be found at: http://www.cnrs.fr/cw/en/pres/compress/SursautGamma.htm

Besides, how else would you imagine energy could be extracted from a matter/antimatter reaction?

Ah, the electromagnetic flux. Trek, TOS or otherwise, is the only thing I've seen where AM/M is suggested for anything but direct propulsion. There's not a lot you can do in the way of manipulating the gamma-ray photons (your PEP) produced by the reaction without recourse to magic. But I thought Trek used hydrogen and antihydrogen, which would produce pions rather than photons anyway.

[ClaysGhost]

Logical trek Design; Ra'kolth class modular frigate, (Romulan)

length 90M
Bredth 90M
Depth 30M

1. It's black.

Won't this make it far more effective at emitting (and absorbing!) radiation? I don't think this'll provide much of a stealth benefit; the enemy just has to have IR sensors. Trek seem to have semi-decent sensors, about the only area in which I could believe they outclass SW.

2. It uses three TOS era warp cores, and therefore does not go BANG when someone sneezes,

But it makes a funny noise, and regularly cannae take the strain.

8. It fits with trek continuity while outclassing fed ships twice its size.

? Only because you say it does. Maybe it outclasses ships three times its size! Ahahaha! Aha.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Troll Sighted off the Bow! Bogey is at 12 o' clock high and closing fast. Shields up, lock main forward Turbolaser batteries on target and prepare to fire.

Won't this make it far more effective at emitting (and absorbing!) radiation? I don't think this'll provide much of a stealth benefit; the enemy just has to have IR sensors. Trek seem to have semi-decent sensors, about the only area in which I could believe they outclass SW.

Point an IR laser at the general direction of the offending ship, and it'll stand a good chance of blinding the enemy IR sensors, plus the hull of the stealth ship'll be designed to minimize emmisivity toward the front (the way REAL stealth fighters are designed FYI), so I'd reconsider the black coating on the front surfaces of the ship for a nice silver, and rely on the angular, pointed shape to deflect active sensor pulses (light as well as radar) away from the enemy sensor array. As for Trek having better sensors, I seriously doubt that a civilization (SW) that can build massive quantities of starfighters that individually outclass anything put up by the other civ (ST) will have much to worry about when it comes to even being detected...

But it makes a funny noise, and regularly cannae take the strain.

Funny Noise? You think warships are quiet? ROFL!!! Besides, it's not a "funny noise" if it makes it during its normal operation anyway. By your standards, a human heart makes a "funny noise." Would you like to exchange it for one that makes no noise but stands a chance of exploding if you bang your shin too hard? I didn't think so.. As for the "Canna Take the Strain" bit, I'd like to see you make a ship designed for Warp 8 flight go to Warp 14 as long as Kirk, Scotty, and co. did. I'd say the Ent Nil was doing pretty good to make that kind of performance. May I direct your attention to this? http://totl.net/Eunuch/Eunuch2.html These guys made a 33MHz 486 run at 247MHz long enough to play Half-Life, an overclock ratio of 7.48! If a bunch of drunk Brits can do it, Kirk and Scotty can do it too!

? Only because you say it does. Maybe it outclasses ships three times its size! Ahahaha! Aha.

That's because it's OPTIMIZED for its role, which is submarine-style combat, pure and simple. I'd say it can reliably take out boats 3x its tonnage too, if you use it right. Remember, a so-called "snubfighter" was able to destroy a starship 160km in diameter (I know it's a special case, but this just proves that a 3-to-1 ratio is piddly compared to what uneven matchups can happen.)

(For the Mods) BTW this is only the first salvo, so...
Lata and Have A Nice Day™

[ClaysGhost]

Troll Sighted off the Bow! Bogey is at 12 o' clock high and closing fast. Shields up, lock main forward Turbolaser batteries on target and prepare to fire.

Hm. Obviously been overdoing the special mushrooms again. Whenever I see this sort of thing I think "three year old", but then, I'm replying to your post, so why am I talking?

Point an IR laser at the general direction of the offending ship, and it'll stand a good chance of blinding the enemy IR sensors

If they spot you before you spot them, they could do exactly the same to you. Besides which, this will only be effective against a limited set of sensing methods, at any wavelength. Actually, I can think of a way to extract the direction to your ship from your "blinding" laser, since you've conveniently given me a nice flat wavefront to use.

, plus the hull of the stealth ship'll be designed to minimize emmisivity toward the front (the way REAL stealth fighters are designed FYI)

You just make it radiate more strongly towards the rear - better hope you're always facing the enemy when they spot you. I know nothing of REAL stealth fighters, but I doubt that many stealth techniques would be shared by atmospheric fighters and spacecraft. For one, that trick of cooling engine exhaust through atmosphere will not work in space.

so I'd reconsider the black coating on the front surfaces of the ship for a nice silver, and rely on the angular, pointed shape to deflect active sensor pulses (light as well as radar) away from the enemy sensor array.

Yes.

As for Trek having better sensors, I seriously doubt that a civilization (SW) that can build massive quantities of starfighters that individually outclass anything put up by the other civ (ST) will have much to worry about when it comes to even being detected...

Assuming they don't all get drunk and fly into each other; if it can happen to the pride of the Imperial navy over Hoth, it can happen to anyone.

Funny Noise? You think warships are quiet? ROFL!!!

That's right, the noiser it is the more efficient it is. Diesel, innit. You can almost hear each photon appear from the M/AM reaction!

Besides, it's not a "funny noise" if it makes it during its normal operation anyway. By your standards, a human heart makes a "funny noise." Would you like to exchange it for one that makes no noise but stands a chance of exploding if you bang your shin too hard? I didn't think so.. As for the "Canna Take the Strain" bit, I'd like to see you make a ship designed for Warp 8 flight go to Warp 14 as long as Kirk, Scotty, and co. did. I'd say the Ent Nil was doing pretty good to make that kind of performance. May I direct your attention to this? http://totl.net/Eunuch/Eunuch2.html These guys made a 33MHz 486 run at 247MHz long enough to play Half-Life, an overclock ratio of 7.48! If a bunch of drunk Brits can do it, Kirk and Scotty can do it too!

It's easy to make a ship do that. Say "We're at warp 14", rather than "We're at warp 8". Sorted.

That's because it's OPTIMIZED for its role, which is submarine-style combat, pure and simple. I'd say it can reliably take out boats 3x its tonnage too, if you use it right. Remember, a so-called "snubfighter" was able to destroy a starship 160km in diameter (I know it's a special case, but this just proves that a 3-to-1 ratio is piddly compared to what uneven matchups can happen.)

I wasn't really disputing the existence of the ratio > 1, just the random number. 2? Why not 3? Or 4?

(For the Mods) BTW this is only the first salvo, so...
<image>
Lata and Have A Nice Day™

Salvo. Salvo. I'm debating with someone who thinks he/she is a submarine. Fantastic.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Hm. Obviously been overdoing the special mushrooms again. Whenever I see this sort of thing I think "three year old", but then, I'm replying to your post, so why am I talking?

MMMMM Shr0000mz!!! LOL Seriously that was a bit justified because of my excessive hubris...

If they spot you before you spot them, they could do exactly the same to you. Besides which, this will only be effective against a limited set of sensing methods, at any wavelength. Actually, I can think of a way to extract the direction to your ship from your "blinding" laser, since you've conveniently given me a nice flat wavefront to use.

Point conceded in entirety (Sorry guys, yall were expectin a flamewar but he IS making spot-on points! )

You just make it radiate more strongly towards the rear - better hope you're always facing the enemy when they spot you. I know nothing of REAL stealth fighters, but I doubt that many stealth techniques would be shared by atmospheric fighters and spacecraft. For one, that trick of cooling engine exhaust through atmosphere will not work in space.

Yes it does radiate more strongly to the rear, and it really isn't feasible 100% of the time to always be nose-first toward an enemy, but stealth is only meant to buy time to detect an enemy before he can detect you. If he's behind you, you're pretty much screwed as far as stealth goes. This stealth design is optimized for undetected penetration into enemy space, not escape from it, which is why this ship should be outfitted with very fast sublight and FTL drives. As for the engine exhaust problem, a reservoir of extremely compressed cold gas'll do in a pinch if push comes to shove. it'll be limited in net thrust and duration, and hope it doesn't crystallize into pretty snow-white flakes...

Yes.

We can agree on that. Good.

Assuming they don't all get drunk and fly into each other; if it can happen to the pride of the Imperial navy over Hoth, it can happen to anyone.

Exactly. If it can happen to the Hoth Imperials, it can happen to anyone. Case in point: Me attacking you as a "troll"...

That's right, the noiser it is the more efficient it is. Diesel, innit. You can almost hear each photon appear from the M/AM reaction!

Noise really doesn't have very much to do with efficiency, but it's been my experience that high-energy systems like that diesel engine or a jet turbine or a battleship cannon, to take a few examples, tend to make a bit more noise (and in a lot of the cases, a LOT more)

It's easy to make a ship do that. Say "We're at warp 14", rather than "We're at warp 8". Sorted.

Ok, try to tell a police officer who radared you at 90mph that you were doing 60. I'm not sure how the warp speed scale works, but if we say that a ship is rated to top out at X times c, there's nothing to stop someone from running it above the design rating, or modifying it (hot-rodding so to speak) to safely go faster than the rated speed. Saying you're going speed X when you're going at speed Y won't change your ship's speed to X.

I wasn't really disputing the existence of the ratio > 1, just the random number. 2? Why not 3? Or 4?

Ok, point taken. I'm not a fan of arbitrary numbers myself.

Salvo. Salvo. I'm debating with someone who thinks he/she is a submarine. Fantastic.

LOL! You have quite the sense of humor. BTW I believe it's "battleship" you might've been looking for.
In All, Good response. Lata and GG!

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

(3.13, 1.49, -1.01)

Hmm, that's in interesting sig. I'd love to know the story behind it. Lata and Happy Fragging!

[NecronLord]

Logical trek Design; Ra'kolth class modular frigate, (Romulan)

length 90M
Bredth 90M
Depth 30M

1. It's black.

Won't this make it far more effective at emitting (and absorbing!) radiation? I don't think this'll provide much of a stealth benefit; the enemy just has to have IR sensors. Trek seem to have semi-decent sensors, about the only area in which I could believe they outclass SW.

Errm you ignored the Cloaking Device I mentioned?
fool

2. It uses three TOS era warp cores, and therefore does not go BANG when someone sneezes,

But it makes a funny noise, and regularly cannae take the strain.

A funny noise or a huge explosion, if you prefer the explosion then don't even bother replying.

8. It fits with trek continuity while outclassing fed ships twice its size.

? Only because you say it does. Maybe it outclasses ships three times its size! Ahahaha! Aha.

Watch ST VI. Watch the BoP kick the shit out of two ships twice its size for about twenty minutes. Realise that this ship cant be take out the same way. Realise you just fired off a load of crap.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Damn I'm a \/\/uss.... LOL Lata and GG!

[Shadow]

Logical trek Design; Ra'kolth class modular frigate, (Romulan)

length 90M
Bredth 90M
Depth 30M

1. It's balck.
2. It uses three TOS era warp cores, and therefore does not go BANG when someone sneezes,
3. Cloaking device a la ST:VI
4. Point defense disrupetes by the engines to eliminate pesky homing torpedoes.
5. Six largely empty spaces in the hull, put what you like in them. e.g. torpedo launchers. fighter bays (yes the romulans have a fighter, it's probably useless though)
6. Unmanned
7. Swarm Principle.
8. It fits with trek continuity while outclassing fed ships twice it's size.

No one uses that cloak anymore. It was either destroyed with the BoP, or a flaw was discovered that allowed it to be detected. Remember that the method they used to to target the torpedo probably worked on all cloaks. Presumably, a method to block this was discovered.

[NecronLord]

Logical trek Design; Ra'kolth class modular frigate, (Romulan)

length 90M
Bredth 90M
Depth 30M

1. It's balck.
2. It uses three TOS era warp cores, and therefore does not go BANG when someone sneezes,
3. Cloaking device a la ST:VI
4. Point defense disrupetes by the engines to eliminate pesky homing torpedoes.
5. Six largely empty spaces in the hull, put what you like in them. e.g. torpedo launchers. fighter bays (yes the romulans have a fighter, it's probably useless though)
6. Unmanned
7. Swarm Principle.
8. It fits with trek continuity while outclassing fed ships twice it's size.

No one uses that cloak anymore. It was either destroyed with the BoP, or a flaw was discovered that allowed it to be detected. Remember that the method they used to to target the torpedo probably worked on all cloaks. Presumably, a method to block this was discovered.

Ignoring the fact that there is supposed to be one in Nemesis. No flaw has ever been mentioned. Furthermore this is if tech was applied logically, and as you know, it is highly illogical to not have the designs to build a new one.

If a US ship were fitted with something funky, and it sunk, would that make the US unable to build another identiacl funky thing?

The point defeces are added for the fact that they did not need to fix this weakness. Other ships could not fire when cloaked, therefore they never drew the same 'tender attention' from fed ships.

[ClaysGhost]

MMMMM Shr0000mz!!! LOL Seriously that was a bit justified because of my excessive hubris...

Yes, leave fungi out of this.

Yes it does radiate more strongly to the rear, and it really isn't feasible 100% of the time to always be nose-first toward an enemy, but stealth is only meant to buy time to detect an enemy before he can detect you. If he's behind you, you're pretty much screwed as far as stealth goes. This stealth design is optimized for undetected penetration into enemy space, not escape from it, which is why this ship should be outfitted with very fast sublight and FTL drives. As for the engine exhaust problem, a reservoir of extremely compressed cold gas'll do in a pinch if push comes to shove. it'll be limited in net thrust and duration, and hope it doesn't crystallize into pretty snow-white flakes...

Trouble is, it will still carry the thermal energy you put into it. Of course, it's better from a stealth point-of-view to have a rapidly expanding gas carry away that energy, than radiate it from a solid object, but the question is when to use it. I doubt it would last very long, if you're trying to cool a starship.

Noise really doesn't have very much to do with efficiency, but it's been my experience that high-energy systems like that diesel engine or a jet turbine or a battleship cannon, to take a few examples, tend to make a bit more noise (and in a lot of the cases, a LOT more)

Those systems all involve combustion, and so more power = bigger explosion = louder noise. Compare them to a petawatt laser or fusion reactor prototype. Mind you, those all make some noise because of the cooling and what-have-you.

Ok, try to tell a police officer who radared you at 90mph that you were doing 60. I'm not sure how the warp speed scale works, but if we say that a ship is rated to top out at X times c, there's nothing to stop someone from running it above the design rating, or modifying it (hot-rodding so to speak) to safely go faster than the rated speed. Saying you're going speed X when you're going at speed Y won't change your ship's speed to X.

Well, as you can probably tell, I wasn't proposing this as a real solution. I have real trouble taking warp drive, in any of its incarnations, very seriously.

LOL! You have quite the sense of humor. BTW I believe it's "battleship" you might've been looking for.
In All, Good response. Lata and GG!

OK. E-4, D-3, C-2.

[ClaysGhost]

Errm you ignored the Cloaking Device I mentioned?
fool

Well, if you have a magic cloaking device why do you care about the colour? The enemy'll never see it. Although I imagine that any ship using a cloaking device would have real trouble getting rid of waste heat and engine exhaust.

A funny noise or a huge explosion, if you prefer the explosion then don't even bother replying.

Or something decent.

8. It fits with trek continuity while outclassing fed ships twice its size.

? Only because you say it does. Maybe it outclasses ships three times its size! Ahahaha! Aha.

Watch ST VI. Watch the BoP kick the shit out of two ships twice its size for about twenty minutes. Realise that this ship cant be take out the same way. Realise you just fired off a load of crap.

No, I really meant that perhaps it can tackle ships three times its size. Or four. Really depends on the ships, doesn't it?