Toyota vs. Ford

Gunshy · Post by **Gunshy** » 2004-02-20 06:32am

Recently, I've been thinking about getting a new vehicle for college. Since this is going to be something purely fuctional, I don't care about add ons or extras. I'll probably only get a radio. That said, I have been looking at either a Ford Ranger, or a Toyota Tacoma.

So, I was wondering if anyone has had much experience with Toyotas or Fords in general. Although I'd really appreciate feedback on the compact trucks I mentioned.

I'm mainly looking for reliabilty. Torque, towing capacity, and horsepower don't matter to me. It's going to be a utility vehicle, not a racer.

Thank you.

Daltonator · Post by **Daltonator** » 2004-02-20 06:40am

I drove a Ford once. Dumped thousands of dollars into repairs for that piece of shit. Nice power, bad reliability.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-20 06:42am

Ford's dinky pedels are evil...

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-02-20 07:55am

The Ford will cost you less upfront but more in repairs and much less resale at the back end.....

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-02-20 10:59am

I think the Tacoma is a bit smallish and set up more like a car than most of the current light trucks but I think you'll like it much more than a Ranger. They seemed to have crept back up in size to where they are closer in size to the F150 than they used to be.

My dad has a recent model Tacoma and it is nice with decent power. He's put quite a few miles on it and it still runs and looks good.

If you really want to buy a Ford product I'd suggest you get the Mazda version instead. To me they've always seemed to be put together a little bit better.

Sebastin · Post by **Sebastin** » 2004-02-20 12:48pm

Well if reliability is what you are looking for then I´d suggest a toyota. The german ADAC publishes a yearly report about the reliably of cars based on their business and toyota´s always come out near the top, more specificly the toyota corrolla usually occupies the top spot but the other models are good too. Ford models on the other hand have a very bad reputation in this regard.

My own toyota corolla was damn near indestructable too, .... till the engine broke down. But that was after 170 000 km berlin city traffic without so much than a hiccup and I handled it really rough. Once drove it for about 1000km without a drop of oil in the engine.

PS: ADAC is a german organisation that renders help to cars with a breakdown. They do this about 3.5 million times a year, repairing 80% of the cars on the spot, so they know what they´re talking about when comparing reliability. The last report avaiable online has toyota winning 3 out of four categories (fourth was bmw) with the losers being renault(2), skoda and Ford.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-20 06:43pm

Interestingly enough, my father has two Toyotas (both Camry models) and he spends more on their repair than I do on my Ford despite much greater mileage (actually a Mercury, although I don't see why that should make a difference).

The problem is fragility and repair costs; when a Toyota breaks it costs an arm and a leg to fix it, because the parts costs are outrageous. It also seems to be more easily damaged from small shit like driving over a chunk of ice, and it generally doesn't seem to handle extreme cold very well (the fucking defogger sucks shit; with 4 people in the car the windows are still foggy even with the system on full blast). It may be noteworthy that almost identical parking-lot incidents (driving over a curb which was not visible because of ice and snow cover) with my Marquis and his Camry resulted in a big repair bill for his Camry and nothing for my Marquis. And his Camry stationwagon blew out its power steering which cost nearly $2000 to fix.

And this is actually my second Mercury Grand Marquis, since I never had any major problems with the first one. I suppose YMMV. But I certainly don't find myself inclined to put a lot of faith in Toyota reliability. Maybe they just aren't built to handle cold weather.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-02-20 06:54pm

Part of that is just your having a larger car.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-02-20 07:13pm

I have read that no idividual owner will ever own enough cars in his life to build a broad enough basis of comparison for an accurate statistical analysis. The problem is that different cars from the same factory, despite modern quality control methods, may vary a good deal in their mechanical reliability. Personally, the sourest lemon I ever saw in my life was a Ford I once owned. Everything went wrong with that car. The fuel gauge broke. The AC stopped working. The shocks went out (and they were special, expensive, pneumatic shocks particular to that model, plus one or two others, so they cost $180 each, not the $25 bucks you pay for normal shocks). The radiator leaked. The power steering pump failed, and the power steering system developed a leak. The horn failed. The engine broke 3 pushrods and 3 valve springs (not all at once, of course - that would have lessened repair costs). The electrical system developed problems. The alternator needed replacing. The torque converter on the automatic transmission failed. The carburetor needed reparing. You name it, that car had problems with it. I was ready to dynamite the mother fucker by the time I got rid of it.

It kind of put me off Fords. I'll probably never buy another one. My mother has a Toyota, and she's had very few problems with it. It's now ten years old, and has a lot of mileage on it, since she commutes a total of 40 miles a day to work.

But these stories are anecdotal. Statistically speaking, the Toyota is liable to be more reliable than the Ford, and to hold its resale value better.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-20 07:16pm

I just wonder if these reliability statistics have ever been separated out to warm and cold climates. Cold climates are much harder on cars for a variety of reasons, and there's no better way to find out how tough your suspension is than driving over a pothole-ridden road at high speed every day. And given the enormous repair costs of Toyotas, you'd better hope that nothing ever goes wrong with it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-20 07:26pm

BTW, where would one go on-line to find reliability statistics for specific manufacturers and models anyway?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-02-20 07:38pm

My family has had three Mazdas, two of them still being in our ownership. They have given us no problems whatsoever.

Had a '86 323. Got 195,000 miles on it before we decided it was due for retirement. Never broke down once. Engine was still in good condition when we were done with it, had good compression and such. All we did was regular maintenance.

Currently have a '96 Protege. Have had no problems so far.

Currently have a '99 Miata. Have had no problems so far except for a fouling spark plug (taken care of with injector cleaner).

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-02-20 07:41pm

Darth Wong wrote:It may be noteworthy that almost identical parking-lot incidents (driving over a curb which was not visible because of ice and snow cover) with my Marquis and his Camry resulted in a big repair bill for his Camry and nothing for my Marquis.

Yeah, but you have that heavy duty cop car suspension package. You can run that car over curbs all day and the thing will just laugh at it, my cop buddy does that with his Crown Vic a lot and has yet to do any damage to the car. He's actually dented a wheel or 2 but hasn't done any harm to the suspension yet.

As for cars, most of our family friends drive Hondas or Toyotas and from what I've seen I'm not too impressed. The cars work great when they're new, but maintenance costs really start climbing once the car's about 4-5 years old. Electronic glitches start popping up, the HVAC system dies, and stupid things like water pumps, alternators, and ignition systems go south.

What I've noticed is this, a Toyota will either work flawlessly or it won't work, there's nothing in between. When the parts go south they die hard and leave you stranded. Any one of a million little glitches which wouldn't harm one of the GM cars we've owned will result in the Toyota being towed to the nearest garage. They just don't seem to have any fault tolerance.

It's kinda strange since I worked for Ford-Visteon (the Ford electronics division) when Toyota came to us with a major contract and did a full quality audit of the workplace. They did a lot to improve our quality and procedures, we had fewer defects and products lasted longer in accelerated life testing after they got through with us. Strange since despite our improved quality we did not have a measurable decrease in electronics glitches for Ford after the upgrades were done.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2004-02-20 07:42pm

We've had Ford Mondeo Estates for 10 years at least, don't know about fuel consumption and stuff, but the only repairs we've had to make have been a circuit replaced in the door electric windows.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2004-02-20 08:59pm

Individual models vary more than manufacturers do.
A Ranger is a piece of shit, and Crown Vics are bulletproof. You might as well be compairing an Escort and an Explorer.
Compairing a 4 door passenger car against a truck is apples and oranges by any standards.
Go to comsumer reports, car and driver, and other consumer product testers, and you will find the Ranger is one of the LEAST reliable minitrucks, and is a serious rolloever problem.
All that said and done, remember, you are NOT buying Ford Rangers, or Toyota Tacomas, you are buying ONE SPECIFIC car. This is a reality, not a probability.
You can get lucky and find the 1 in 100k that is balanced and blueprinted, by coincedence, or get the lemon from hell.

As you are from California, and will not be driving in the snow, or off road, go with the Toyota if you are buying it new.
Or did you mean "new to you?"

Sebastin · Post by **Sebastin** » 2004-02-20 09:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:BTW, where would one go on-line to find reliability statistics for specific manufacturers and models anyway?

Unfortunatly ADAC has only very basic data online. They only show best and worst in 4 Categories (compact, lower middleclass, middleclass, upper middleclass) and only up to 1999. Look here:Panne99. German but probably easy to understand, the car names are the sames anyway. This study is widely recognized as THE reference on the topic over here, mostly due to the very large sample size and the impartiality of the organisation.

Now the climate is of course a factor for reliability. This is for the average german climate which is quite a bit more temperate than canadian climate. On the other hand we do get quite harsh winters around here and we also have alpine regions which should make for a good extreme weather test. Now I don´t know if they have statistics broke down by regions or seasons in their publications but I wouldn´t put it past them. (german organisations have this thoroughness that comes with being the most anal people in the world).

I get access to their publications tomorrow anyway, I can look what I find if you are interested.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2004-02-20 10:34pm

Fuck the cop car suspension. I run the shit out of my '99 Taurus, the std V6 and it's like a charm. Has almost 70k miles on it. My dad's had all types of Ford's and there's been little problems. Plus being here in the south, that seems to be what everyone knows how to work on, Ford's and Chevy's.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2004-02-20 11:15pm

Darth Wong wrote:I just wonder if these reliability statistics have ever been separated out to warm and cold climates. Cold climates are much harder on cars for a variety of reasons, and there's no better way to find out how tough your suspension is than driving over a pothole-ridden road at high speed every day. And given the enormous repair costs of Toyotas, you'd better hope that nothing ever goes wrong with it.

Thats a good point, here in the mild climate of the Bay Area, Toyotas and Hondas last a very long time. So do a lot of Fords, but my "personal" experience is that Fords dont outlast Honda or Toyota.

Tranan · Post by **Tranan** » 2004-02-21 03:35am

If you want torq. Dissel is the only way to do it.

I drive a MB 220 CDI and i got torque. Ca 400Nm from 2,2liter.

And toyota and ford meaks god dissel. I wod get the Mondeo TCDI.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2004-02-21 11:59am

The Tacoma is by far the more solid piece of machinery, and as far as performance is concerned, I'd go with the Tacoma any day.

'Course, I'd do a bit of work on it... Tacoma has the better ground clearance, IIRC. But I'm a bit hungover at the present time, so I could be wrong.

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2004-02-21 03:31pm

I drive a Ford Ranger. I have never had any problems with it for the 5 years that I have owned it. The only thing not original is the oil, brake pads, etc.... I have never had a single problem with it. Also with a 5-speed automatic you end up getting pretty good gas mileage with it.

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