Saudi Arabia warns US about imposing reform

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-02-20 11:20am

link

The money quote:

"Even in your schools you prevent the use of the cane to teach students," he added.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2004-02-20 11:31am

What does he think is accomplished by caning student?

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2004-02-20 11:45am

Directory Listing Denied for me.

Anyway, who didn't see this coming.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-02-20 05:00pm

KrauserKrauser wrote:Directory Listing Denied for me.

Anyway, who didn't see this coming.

go to http://www.megaproxy.com/ and type in "www.arabnews.com"
You'll find it there.

I thought the idea in caning was that pain was the most effective method of disciplining those who can not be disciplined by other means such as words or separation. If anyone hear has read Heinlein's "Starship Troopers," the idea was that pain is the basic instinct built in human beings to identify when one's life was endangered, so pain was the most effective means of permanent discipline.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-02-20 05:09pm

Montcalm wrote:What does he think is accomplished by caning student?

Robert Heinlein actually had an excellent explanation of it. We've spent millions of years fine tuning a system that makes sure we learn from our mistakes, so why waste it? Pain makes sure we don't do stupid shit, so why not use it when we need to teach our children a lesson?

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2004-02-20 08:22pm

There is also that Pavlovian conditioning thing.
Like it or not,the hickory stick increases motivation.

As ANY graduate of armed services basic training can atest to.

However, there is the ethical part to consider. Physical punishment is the easiest to abuse. America seems to have thown the baby out with the bathwater. Somewhere between senceless beating, and being a doormat must lie the better way.
If any one here has seen the South Park episode, where all the kids take Ritalin, and the clinicians show the "New Experimental" drug free way to deal with problem children. Whackem! This needs only be applied to the worst few, as the majority don't risk it.
Part of the problem in American education is the inability to disiplin the children. Children can litteraly get away with telling the teacher to fuck off.
The biggest part is the lack of disipline at home. Too much self esteem, and not enough self repsect. All children are "special."
It seemes more important that the child be understood, than that the child under stand.
WRONG! Until you get towards voting age, it is more important that you understand certain behaviour IS forbidden, than to understand WHY it is forbidden. I am not about to get into a debait with a snot nosed punk, about WHY you should shut the fuck up in a library, or not be disrespectful of your teachers.
Start arguing about 16/18, when you are about to leave anyway.

As to the Saudis, freedom can't be drunk by the thimble.
Most important of all, is the false logic, that beacause America is a bit too permissive with their youths, (which we are going through a reversal off) that our free speech, civil liberties, and political rights are "too permisive" as well.

Totalitarian shitheads like the Saudi speaker see the number of aquittals in court as a failure of justice, the opposite of the way the west sees it.
Freedom goes with higher crime, so freedom must be bad?

This is very much like claiming because of families, there are honor killings, thus, families are bad! So arabs shouldn't have families, because they can't be trusted not to kill for family honor.

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2004-02-20 09:33pm

Strange....I've been hit with various kinds of rods since grade 1 for not doing my homework, and I still don't today.... (after....~8 years on and off as I changed schools)

Being hit is alot less painful than homework....ALWAYS

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2004-02-20 09:37pm

Note: i grew up in asia

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-02-20 10:55pm

Super!

Criticism of not beating our kids coming from an abslolute monarchy that abolished slavery as early as 1964.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-02-22 04:20am

The sad thing is that he does have a point. While it may smell like a cheesy excuse, rapid reforms in their society might very well lead to chaos and a popular uprising.