Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
That's disgusting.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:For example on this matter, I have heard several anti-semites who have, instead of denying the holocaust, simply applauded it.Darth Wong wrote:
It is possible for someone to hate Jews without necessarily denying the Holocaust, although I'd still like to see this clip.
I honestly don't think I'd be able to control the urge to introduce their faces to my fists.I must have mentally overwritten that shit, because I only vaguely remember it. The battle scenes were, not surprisingly, more memorable. I only saw it twice, though. I'm like that with all war films, I see it once or twice and I just think "that's enough for me."Darth Wong wrote:The church scene was pretty blatant, but what about the "let's all pray together" scene at Mel's home, with his kids?
I've always wondered about that, some of the hardcore Neo-Nazis have openly stated that they belief that Jews should be exterminated, they also applaud Hitler as their hero and then claim that the Holocaust never took place. Why would they do that? I mean they wan't to exterminate the Jews, Hitler - their hero and idol - tried to exterminate the Jews and succeeded killing 6 million of them, but for some reason they like to claim that he didn't try to do the very thing they wan't to do. I don't get it.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:For example on this matter, I have heard several anti-semites who have, instead of denying the holocaust, simply applauded it.
It's a highly irrational mindset created by the idea that anything propagated by the Jews is Bad, and that Hitler must be snow-white and his reputation saved from negative things; or maybe that somehow he'll look good, and their ideology will, if they just get rid of the holocaust charge. I've actually heard a few Muslims make the same claim, that Hitler was a great guy, but that he Holocaust had never happened, but that it should have.Sir Sirius wrote: I've always wondered about that, some of the hardcore Neo-Nazis have openly stated that they belief that Jews should be exterminated, they also applaud Hitler as their hero and then claim that the Holocaust never took place. Why would they do that? I mean they wan't to exterminate the Jews, Hitler - their hero and idol - tried to exterminate the Jews and succeeded killing 6 million of them, but for some reason they like to claim that he didn't try to do the very thing they wan't to do. I don't get it.
The church scene was annoying, but for me it was saved by Gibson adding: "..and Lord, please ignore the heathen prayers of our enemies" to the end of his little prayer session.Stofsk wrote:Darth Wong wrote:
One thing shits me - how he writes to the girl at the end and says the lieutenant-kid is "in heaven, singing with the angels." The film really got me at times, which I guess makes it a successful film - I mean, it provoked emotions. But that thing just annoyed me.
Now, obviously Gibson's splinter church rejects Vatican II, which absolves Jews of guilt in the killing of Christ, among other things. But the question is, was that one of the main reasons Gibson had a problem with Vatican II? Or were there other aspects he found distateful, like the elimination of Latin mass? Were all Catholics pre-Vatican II anti-Semites?With many Jewish leaders fearing the film will revive debate on whether the Jews were to blame for Christ's death, Sawyer asked the Oscar-winning actor and director, "Who killed Christ?"
Gibson replied, "The big answer is, we all did. I'll be first in the culpability stakes here, you know."
Asked if he was anti-Semitic, Gibson said, "No, of course not. And here's the other thing. For me, it goes against the tenets of my faith, to be racist in any form. To be anti-Semitic is a sin. It's been condemned by one Papal Council after another. There's encyclicals on it, which is, you know -- to be anti-Semitic is to be un-Christian, and I'm not."
Yes. The history of Catholic treatment of Jews is not exactly nice.Uther wrote:Were all Catholics pre-Vatican II anti-Semites?
Then he obviously does not find his father's behaviour as morally abhorrent as we do. If my father went around saying shit like that, I'd stand up in public and say that my father is full of shit and I'm embarrassed by his behaviour.Of course, you can say he's an anti-Semite for not denouncing his father publicly. Perhaps he loves his father and does not wish to alienate him.
I love the way some people look for excuses to defend celebrities.Would that we all had the courage to do so, to do the right thing, but many do not. I do not know how hard we can be on old Mel for that.
I assume you don't have much contact with your grandfather. I never had much contact with any of my grandparents. But if he were running around making public statements to the press about how blacks are worthless and reporters were asking for your comments on those statements, would you evade with "ummm, no comment?"Rogue 9 wrote:My maternal grandfather is a flaming racist. He refuses to associate with black people and if he knew that one of Dad's sisters adopted two black babies it would split the family. I do not confront him or denounce him because of this for three reasons. One, he is my grandfather regardless. Two, family unity; I see no need to cause a rift between my mother and her father. Three, he has high blood pressure with a history of stroke and the resulting argument could kill him. I do not find it worth the pain it would cause my family. Does this make me a racist in your estimation?
Didn't you say that you've gotten into massive scream-fests with your father because he's an anti-Semite once?Darth Wong wrote:Then he obviously does not find his father's behaviour as morally abhorrent as we do. If my father went around saying shit like that, I'd stand up in public and say that my father is full of shit and I'm embarrassed by his behaviour.
Yup. Loud, shouting arguments. Blood relation is not a muzzle. If my father says something I think is wrong, I will say so.Durandal wrote:Didn't you say that you've gotten into massive scream-fests with your father because he's an anti-Semite once?Darth Wong wrote:Then he obviously does not find his father's behaviour as morally abhorrent as we do. If my father went around saying shit like that, I'd stand up in public and say that my father is full of shit and I'm embarrassed by his behaviour.
Public statements like that must be denounced, and I don't give a fuck who they come from. He who says nothing when confronted with evil (unless, of course, it comes in the form of a gun pointed at his face, in which case fear is a perfectly reasonable excuse) is an enabler at best, and a conspirator at worst.
Heh, sounds like my dad and me when I wishes everyone a "Happy Winter Solstice" at Christmas dinner, and he told me to "stop with the Pagan shit." My sister, cousin and I didn't take too well to that, and we all ended up yelling at him simultaneously.Darth Wong wrote:Yup. Loud, shouting arguments. Blood relation is not a muzzle. If my father says something I think is wrong, I will say so.
Durandal wrote:Heh, sounds like my dad and me when I wishes everyone a "Happy Winter Solstice" at Christmas dinner, and he told me to "stop with the Pagan shit." My sister, cousin and I didn't take too well to that, and we all ended up yelling at him simultaneously.
My dad's no fan of the church, but I think that he thinks that I'm an atheist just because I feel like being a rebel and I hate society. Basically, he probably thinks it's a fad. When he came across my website, he suggested that I take it down because I might be "ruffling the wrong feathers" or something like that.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Ha. You're an asshole. I'd do that if I didn't still live here and had to put up with the wrath.
Yeah, I get the same. I'm just trying to prove a point or something, and will naturally run back to the Holy Mother Church to baptise my kids...right.Durandal wrote:My dad's no fan of the church, but I think that he thinks that I'm an atheist just because I feel like being a rebel and I hate society. Basically, he probably thinks it's a fad. When he came across my website, he suggested that I take it down because I might be "ruffling the wrong feathers" or something like that.
