Scientists: Bush Distorts Science

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29211
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Scientists: Bush Distorts Science

Post by General Zod »

Wired.com Linky
Wired.com wrote:The Bush administration has distorted scientific fact leading to policy decisions on the environment, health, biomedical research and nuclear weaponry, a group of about 60 scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, said in a statement on Wednesday.

The Union of Concerned Scientists, an independent organization, also issued a 37-page report, "Scientific Integrity in Policymaking," detailing the accusations. The statement and the report both accuse the Bush administration of distorting and suppressing findings that contradict administration policies, stacking panels with like-minded and underqualified scientists with ties to industry, and eliminating some advisory committees altogether.

The scientists listed various policy issues as being unfairly influenced by the administration, including those concerning climate change, mercury emissions, reproductive health, lead poisoning in children, workplace safety and nuclear weapons. New regulations and laws are necessary to fix the situation, the statement says.

"We found a serious pattern of undermining science by the Bush administration, and it crosses disciplines, whether it's global climate change or reproductive health or mercury in the food chain or forestry -- the list goes on and on," said Kevin Knobloch, president of the Union of Concerned Scientists.

President Bush's science adviser, John Marburger, said he was disappointed in the report, and called it biased.

He said he was troubled by the fact that some very prestigious scientists signed the statement.

"We have to find a way to reach out to them and try to come to an understanding, because this administration has in fact been very supportive of science," Marburger said. He noted the administration has doubled the National Institutes of Health budget and increased the National Science Foundation budget.

The Union of Concerned Scientists began investigating the Bush administration's scientific policy-making last summer in response to numerous complaints from members of the scientific community, Knobloch said. The report documents various instances of the administration undercutting science, scientists and the public welfare, he said.

For example, the panel that advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on lead poisoning was recently planning to strengthen the lead poisoning regulations, in response to science showing that smaller amounts than previously understood could cause brain damage in children, Knobloch said.

Before the panel could act, Secretary of Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson rejected the recommendation and replaced two members of the panel with individuals tied to the lead industry, Knobloch said.

Marburger said he wasn't familiar with the details of the panel changes, "but I'm pretty sure there were other reasons for making changes on the panel," he said. "I think there are reasonable explanations for nearly all the things in the report, and rather than look for what those explanations might be, I think the (researchers were) somewhat biased in favor of a sweeping opinion of what this administration is all about, and I just don't think that's justified."

The researchers also took issue with a White House Office of Management and Budget bulletin regarding peer review, a process fundamental to science by which researchers check each other's work for accuracy and balance before it's published. The bulletin (PDF), drafted in August 2003, would allow the government to hand-pick scientists to second-guess scientific research, opponents say.

The text of the bulletin says its purpose would be to ensure that all research affecting federal regulations, such as environmental or health advisories, would be thoroughly peer-reviewed by unbiased researchers. But opponents say the bulletin's guidelines would scrutinize only academic researchers for bias, not industry scientists.


this kind of goes without saying, but even still it's nice to hear some type of officials state as much.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
User avatar
theski
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4327
Joined: 2003-01-28 03:20pm
Location: Hurricane Watching

Post by theski »

You might want to give the "Bias" part some creedence.......

They are a bit left of center....

http://www.ucsusa.org/
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

Oh yes. Let's ignore how they are unwilling to show how there's bias, and act like unsupported claims are reasonable. Sorry, Theski, we have higher standards of thinking than 'They're left! THEY'RE EVIL!' here.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Andrew J.
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3508
Joined: 2002-08-18 03:07pm
Location: The Adirondacks

Post by Andrew J. »

theski wrote:You might want to give the "Bias" part some creedence.......

They are a bit left of center...
And the Bush administration is a bit right of center. So what?
Don't hate; appreciate!

RIP Eddie.
User avatar
theski
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4327
Joined: 2003-01-28 03:20pm
Location: Hurricane Watching

Post by theski »

I'm just looking at the source..... and is anybody not going to say they may be a bit biased.......?? Thats all...
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
User avatar
Mayabird
Storytime!
Posts: 5970
Joined: 2003-11-26 04:31pm
Location: IA > GA

Post by Mayabird »

theski wrote:I'm just looking at the source..... and is anybody not going to say they may be a bit biased.......?? Thats all...
If you mean "biased" by the Bush Administration's definition ("It disagrees with current policy") then yes, they are quite biased.
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!

SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

theski wrote:I'm just looking at the source..... and is anybody not going to say they may be a bit biased.......?? Thats all...
Are you going to offer proof they let their bias taint their findings, Theski, or continue with an Appeal To Motive fallacy?
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
theski
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4327
Joined: 2003-01-28 03:20pm
Location: Hurricane Watching

Post by theski »

SirNitram wrote
Are you going to offer proof they let their bias taint their findings, Theski, or continue with an Appeal To Motive fallacy?
I'm going to feel Owned and Go get a Bombay and Tonic.... :D
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Post by Darth Raptor »

Marburger said he wasn't familiar with the details of the panel changes, "but I'm pretty sure there were other reasons for making changes on the panel," he said. "I think there are reasonable explanations for nearly all the things in the report, and rather than look for what those explanations might be, I think the (researchers were) somewhat biased in favor of a sweeping opinion of what this administration is all about, and I just don't think that's justified."
I found that part particularly amusing.

"I'm just sure the President had a perfectly reasonable excuse to do this, but I don't know what. It does look a bit like a coincidence, but I'm certain the President would never manipulate the panel in such a manner. To call him on it is just being a big meanie!" :roll:
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

SirNitram wrote:Oh yes. Let's ignore how they are unwilling to show how there's bias, and act like unsupported claims are reasonable. Sorry, Theski, we have higher standards of thinking than 'They're left! THEY'RE EVIL!' here.
Well I am troubled by any group of scientists who treat wind and other "renewable" energy sources as serious options.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

theski wrote:SirNitram wrote
Are you going to offer proof they let their bias taint their findings, Theski, or continue with an Appeal To Motive fallacy?
I'm going to feel Owned and Go get a Bombay and Tonic.... :D
Jolly good; fetch me some Gin, while you're up.


IP: Well, while it's not feasible everywhere, there's enough juice to be had from hydroelectric and similar that we should at least look at them, while working towards fusion.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13748
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Post by Tsyroc »

SirNitram wrote: IP: Well, while it's not feasible everywhere, there's enough juice to be had from hydroelectric and similar that we should at least look at them, while working towards fusion.

I think that the hydroelectric dams on the Columbia River have shown that hydroelectric has it's own enviromental trade offs. It may not polute the air but it certainly has a big impact on the environment.

COLUMBIA RIVER BASIN - DAMS AND SALMON

How A Hydroelectric Project Can Affect A River
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

Tsyroc wrote:
SirNitram wrote: IP: Well, while it's not feasible everywhere, there's enough juice to be had from hydroelectric and similar that we should at least look at them, while working towards fusion.

I think that the hydroelectric dams on the Columbia River have shown that hydroelectric has it's own enviromental trade offs. It may not polute the air but it certainly has a big impact on the environment.

COLUMBIA RIVER BASIN - DAMS AND SALMON

How A Hydroelectric Project Can Affect A River
I knew they affected things(For one thing, the Kanawha is no longer a literal name..), but this is an unexpected level.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13748
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Post by Tsyroc »

SirNitram wrote:
I knew they affected things(For one thing, the Kanawha is no longer a literal name..), but this is an unexpected level.
Still, you are right in that we should at least look at them.

It appears that they are learning from the mistakes made on the Columbia system by trying to find ways to work around some of the problems.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
User avatar
GySgt. Hartman
Jedi Knight
Posts: 553
Joined: 2004-01-08 05:07am
Location: Paris Island

Post by GySgt. Hartman »

There are drawbacks with every form of power generation - no free lunches, you know? But I guess that's for a different thread.

I am wondering if the Bush administration will manage to successfully aattack the scientists on their supposed bias, evading the need to address the actual accusations.

I am still amazed what counts as "left" in the US. It's not like they are advocating Stalinism. Seems like it is enough to call people "leftist" to dismiss every argument. Every country needs people that have a critical eye on government decisions, people that are knowledgeable enough to call the gov on BS, if they are trying to pull some.
"If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon,
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman

"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
User avatar
Vympel
Spetsnaz
Spetsnaz
Posts: 29312
Joined: 2002-07-19 01:08am
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by Vympel »

I think this thread deserves a more specific article:
Bush Administration Accused of Suppressing, Distorting Science
by Seth Borenstein


WASHINGTON - A group of more than 60 top U.S. scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates and several science advisers to past Republican presidents, on Wednesday accused the Bush administration of manipulating and censoring science for political purposes.

Among prominent scientists who on Wednesday endorsed a letter and report critical of the Bush administration's use of science are:

-David Baltimore, winner of Nobel Prize for medicine, president of the California Institute of Technology.

-Lewis Branscomb, former director of the National Bureau of Standards under President Nixon, current professor of science and public policy at Harvard University.

-Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University population biologist.

-Gerald Fischbach, former director of the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, dean of Columbia University's faculty of medicine.

-Neal Lane, former science adviser to President Clinton, former director of the National Science Foundation, now an astronomy professor at Rice University in Houston.

-Leon Lederman, Nobel Prize-winning physicist, former president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), and former director of the Fermi National Lab.

-Jane Lubchenco, Oregon State University zoologist and former president of the AAAS.

-F. Sherwood Rowland, atmospheric scientist at the University of California-Irvine, past president of AAAS.

-Harold Varmus, former director of the National Institutes of Health, Nobel Prize winner for medicine, current CEO of the Memorial-Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York City.

-E.O. Wilson, Harvard University ecologist.

In a 46-page report and an open letter, the scientists accused the administration of "suppressing, distorting or manipulating the work done by scientists at federal agencies" in several cases. The Union of Concerned Scientists, a liberal advocacy group based in Cambridge, Mass., organized the effort, but many of the critics aren't associated with it.

White House Science Advisor John Marburger III called the charges "like a conspiracy theory report, and I just don't buy that." But he added that "given the prestige of some of the individuals who have signed on to this, I think they deserve additional response and we're coordinating something."

The protesting scientists welcomed his response.

"If an administration of whatever political persuasion ignores scientific reality, they do so at great risk to the country," said Stanford University physicist W.H.K. Panofsky, who served on scientific advisory councils in the Eisenhower, Johnson and Carter administrations. "There is no clear understanding in the (Bush) administration that you cannot bend science and technology to policy."

The report charges that administration officials have:

Ordered massive changes to a section on global warming in the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's 2003 Report on the Environment. Eventually, the entire section was dropped.

Replaced a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention fact sheet on proper condom use with a warning emphasizing condom failure rates.

Ignored advice from top Department of Energy nuclear materials experts who cautioned that aluminum tubes being imported by Iraq weren't suitable for use to make nuclear weapons.

Established political litmus tests for scientific advisory boards. In one case, public health experts were removed from a CDC lead paint advisory panel and replaced with researchers who had financial ties to the lead industry.

Suppressed a U.S. Department of Agriculture microbiologist's finding that potentially harmful bacteria float in the air surrounding large hog farms.

Excluded scientists who've received federal grants from regulatory advisory panels while permitting the appointment of scientists from regulated industries.

"I don't recall it ever being so blatant in the past," said Princeton University physicist Val Fitch, a 1980 Nobel Prize winner who served on a Nixon administration science advisory committee. "It's just time after time after time. The facts have been distorted."

White House adviser Marburger, also a physicist, said, "I don't think that these incidents or issues add up to strong support for the accusation that this administration is deliberately acting to undermine the processes of science."

Each example cited was a separate case, Marburger said, often decided at the agency level for good reasons. He declined to defend any case.

Russell Train, an EPA administrator in the Nixon and Ford administrations who spoke on the protesters' behalf, described the Bush administration's treatment of science and scientists as so "dictatorial" that it was causing good scientists to leave the federal government.

James Zahn, a former Agriculture Department microbiologist, said he discovered accidentally that pig farms in southwestern Minnesota, northern Missouri and Iowa were emitting airborne bacteria. Because pigs are often fed antibiotics, Zahn speculated that airborne bacteria from farms could include drug-resistant bacteria, which, if breathed by humans, would make them harder to treat when ill.

Zahn presented his findings at a scientific conference in 2000, but the Bush administration stopped him from publishing his data 11 times between September 2001 and April 2002, he said. When Danish researchers sought to learn more about his work, Zahn wasn't allowed to share his techniques.

"It was truly a new problem with potential impact on human health," Zahn said.

The protest occurred on the same day that the independent National Academy of Sciences released its study of the Bush administration's plans for global warming research. The national academy's report warned strenuously about the dangers of politicizing climate change science, but said the Bush research plan was on the right track, though it noted that it was underfunded.

James Mahoney, who directs the global warming research plan, acknowledged that the Bush administration had cut the research budget from $2.2 billion this year to $1.96 next year.

William Schlesinger, the dean of the School of Environment at Duke University in Durham, N.C., participated in the academy's study and the scientists' protest. He gave the Bush administration's climate plan a grade of B-.

But, he added, the Bush administration's science policy is too politicized and gets a "D." He said, "Scientists are very disappointed at this administration's use and regard of science."
Like Legend of Galactic Heroes? Please contribute to http://gineipaedia.com/
Howedar
Emperor's Thumb
Posts: 12472
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:06pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by Howedar »

Tsyroc wrote: I think that the hydroelectric dams on the Columbia River have shown that hydroelectric has it's own enviromental trade offs. It may not polute the air but it certainly has a big impact on the environment.

COLUMBIA RIVER BASIN - DAMS AND SALMON

How A Hydroelectric Project Can Affect A River
I observe that neither of these pages has been updated more recently than late 02, and the one that really claims detrimental effects is now four years old.

The last couple of years have in fact seen near-record salmon runs on the Columbia. Strongest run since 1938 in 2003, IIRC.
Link the first
Link the second

It is fairly clear that dams do not have the incredible detrimental effects that many econuts have claimed. They remain the most environmentally friendly feasable power source save fission.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
Post Reply