Anyone catch the 26 min. MGS: The Twin Snakes trailer?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-24 09:37pm

Hmm...looks gorgeous. I think they went overboard with this cinematic Matrix-rip fight stuff--particularly Snake hoping off a missile, fighting the Cyborg Ninja after the Ocelot fight, and some clips of MG REX.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-02-24 09:43pm

I don't suppose you have a link.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-24 09:51pm

MGS 2 and MGS 1 have Love Child YAY (the .zip file)

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-02-24 11:22pm

After watching that I get the feeling we will be seeling a LOT of Ninja vs threads. I mean he was pulling some pretty good shit

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2004-02-24 11:23pm

Saw it a while ago.. and I'm not surprised at all about the Ninja given that TS is being directed by Ryuhei Kitamura (director of Versus)

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-26 09:27pm

SylasGaunt wrote:Saw it a while ago.. and I'm not surprised at all about the Ninja given that TS is being directed by Ryuhei Kitamura (director of Versus)

Who is he?

Temjin · Post by **Temjin** » 2004-02-26 10:12pm

I do not like what they did to MGS.

In the first one, Snake was merely human. Yeah, he could do alot of stuff that wasn't that believable, but at least it looked possible.

But in this one, they made him into some expert martial artist. Just look at his two fights with the Cyborg Ninja. He was pulling off moves that the guys from the Matrix would envy.

But that's not the thing I had the greatest problem with in that video. the thing that really pissed me off was the fight with the Hind D. Specifically when he did the back-flip and landed on the fricking missile.

Oh sure, it all looks cool, but couldn't they just have toned it down a little?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-02-26 10:49pm

Temjin wrote:I do not like what they did to MGS.

In the first one, Snake was merely human. Yeah, he could do alot of stuff that wasn't that believable, but at least it looked possible.

But in this one, they made him into some expert martial artist. Just look at his two fights with the Cyborg Ninja. He was pulling off moves that the guys from the Matrix would envy.

But that's not the thing I had the greatest problem with in that video. the thing that really pissed me off was the fight with the Hind D. Specifically when he did the back-flip and landed on the fricking missile.

Oh sure, it all looks cool, but couldn't they just have toned it down a little?

Dude, even in the original Snake jumped and dodged a round from an M1-A1 tank. It's always been obvious that his reflexes were enhanced due to his training and, likely, his genetic engineering.

Temjin · Post by **Temjin** » 2004-02-26 11:01pm

The Kernel wrote:Dude, even in the original Snake jumped and dodged a round from an M1-A1 tank. It's always been obvious that his reflexes were enhanced due to his training and, likely, his genetic engineering.

Yes, but it wasn't as bad as it is in the new one. As I said, it still looked believable in the first one. In the new one, they didn't even bother. It seems like they saw the popularity of the Matrix and tried to translate that into the MGS setting.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2004-02-27 01:28am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Who is he?

Japanese director. The one movie of his I've seen was a Zombie/Yakuza hack-n-slasher. Fun flick to watch (and if you're one who's sick of matrix-style effects it should prove refreshing). I got my copy at Best Buy and I've seen it at blockbuster so it shouldn't be too hard to find if you want to check it out.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2004-02-27 01:29am

Temjin wrote: Yes, but it wasn't as bad as it is in the new one. As I said, it still looked believable in the first one. In the new one, they didn't even bother. It seems like they saw the popularity of the Matrix and tried to translate that into the MGS setting.

There's really no point in sticking to 'believable' when the centerpiece of the series is a gigantic railgun toting mech and it's got genetically enhanced soldiers, cybernetic ninjas, and psychics.

The Penultimate Ninja · Post by **The Penultimate Ninja** » 2004-02-27 05:40am

I think the problem is that we've never seen Snake do that stuff before. I certainly don't remember him doing any crazy flips in MGS or MGS2, and there weren't any crazy moves in the MGS3 trailers. It's sort of like they're changing the essence of his character.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-02-27 06:42am

I have to agree with SAMAS that while I like the fact that they've made an updated version of one of the greatest games ever, they did go overboard in a John Woo or Wachoski way. It now seems too fanciful despite the better graphics and new music etc.

I still prefer the original on principle since this isn't really Kojima-san's true vision. But I eagerly await MGS3, even if they've strayed from concluding the Patriot story arc, annoyingly.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-27 04:24pm

The Penultimate Ninja wrote:I think the problem is that we've never seen Snake do that stuff before. I certainly don't remember him doing any crazy flips in MGS.

The fuck?

What about Ocelot's extreme leaps and shit in MGS2? Snake jumping after MG RAY at the end? Raiden and Solidus falling two stories onto the roof of Federal Hall? Snake's backflip dodge of Ocelot's first shot was in MGS. The original M1A1 dodge? The original jumps off MG REX? Solidus' weird shit in MGS2? Vamp's entire character? Whacky side-jumps by Olga in MGS2? The opening multistory flawless backflip by Snake in MGS2? Everything about the Ninja in MGS?

The backflip onto the missile just annoys me, as does the Ninja's kick-the-concrete-block. And bullet trails, just because I fucking hate bullet trails.

The fight with the Ninja is hardly that bad: Snake fights like a bulldozer. He just takes his fists and hammers the Ninja in the back, not wasting time with fancy shit. He gives him a hard kick to the midsection and knee, no Matrix-style balletic moves.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-02-28 10:15am

I'm so glad I have a GameCube and PS2 right now. I can play both. Though MGS2 was wanky compared to MGS.

EDIT: that was a cool trailer. I just wished Hideo Kojima wasn't such a preachy try-hard.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-02-28 01:14pm

Vympel wrote:I'm so glad I have a GameCube and PS2 right now. I can play both. Though MGS2 was wanky compared to MGS.

EDIT: that was a cool trailer. I just wished Hideo Kojima wasn't such a preachy try-hard.

Well it's not really Kojima's fault in this instance since it's directed by another guy.

MGS3 was originally going to someone else too, but I guess he gave into demand and took it as his project, and rightfully so.

MGS4 should be the final game in the series and tie up any loose ends from MGS2 or MGS3 if that's linked to the main story arc (I'm guessing it is even if set in the '60s).

Don't expect MGS4 to be on PS2 though, think PS3.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-28 05:22pm

Can anyone tell me why they have FAMAS G2s? (Anyone else catch the flash of the curved, M16-model 30 round box)?

I was hoping they'd give them M4A1s or something (giving them G36Ks would've tied in with the new rifle and been damn cool too).

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-02-29 04:27am

Well it's not really Kojima's fault in this instance since it's directed by another guy.

It's not the directing, it's the script. It's full of try-hard lines; take Snake's first meeting with Meryl and his calling her a 'rookie'.

MGS3 was originally going to someone else too, but I guess he gave into demand and took it as his project, and rightfully so.

How much do you wanna bet that all that jungle stuff we've seen is a deception and has very little to do with the meat of the game?

MGS4 should be the final game in the series and tie up any loose ends from MGS2 or MGS3 if that's linked to the main story arc (I'm guessing it is even if set in the '60s).

Don't expect MGS4 to be on PS2 though, think PS3.

I didn't know there were any plans for finishing the Metal Gear series anytime soon.

Can anyone tell me why they have FAMAS G2s? (Anyone else catch the flash of the curved, M16-model 30 round box)?

I was hoping they'd give them M4A1s or something (giving them G36Ks would've tied in with the new rifle and been damn cool too).

I have no idea what the in-universe explanation is; "Genome Soldiers" are undoubtedly American; why they'd be using French weaponry is beyond me. Same with the presence of the HIND D; anyone with connections to Spetsnaz, considering the near-future setting, would've at least been able to get their hands on a Mi-24V HIND E or Mi-24P HIND F.

Compare to the far more sensible MGS, with AN-94s and AKS-74Us appropriately equipping the Spetsnaz enemies- not to mention Makarov pistols and even the NRS-2 spetsnaz recon knife with built in silenced gun. I would've preferred 7.62x39mm calibre Grozas or AK-105s in place of the rather obsolete AKS-74U though, considering the Ka-60s presence.

In terms of the remake, if they ever even considered it, it may be because they'd have to get the old Russian chick weapons expert voice actor in to do new lines for the new weapons. That's just off the top of my head though; they've got the lines of her describing the FAMAS, why change it?

One thing that continues to irk me however is the use of the Stinger as some sort of all purpose rocket launcher. It's just retarded. An RPG-7 could've easily fulfilled all it's uses, including fighting the aircraft (if Somalis can do it, Solid Snake can).

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-02-29 10:00am

Vympel wrote: How much do you wanna bet that all that jungle stuff we've seen is a deception and has very little to do with the meat of the game?

Well, he has said that about 2/3's of the game will be outdoors, but yeah, I do think that the whole jungle thing is merely the beginning of the game much like the tanker in MGS2. Here's why:

The character in the MGS3 trailer is obviously Big Boss, the time period just doesn't fit for Snake. Since this may be the last MGS title (at least for Kojima) it is pretty clear that he'll want to finish up the storyline he built with MGS2. But he can't very well do this if the game focuses solely on Big Boss.

My guess would be the Big Boss/Jungle part is simply the first part of the game, which will give us Big Bosses backstory along with his first exposure to the Patriots. It will probably bring his actions in "Outer Heaven" into a new light too if he was trying to stage an issurrection against them.

Of course, this is Kojima were talking about, he could very well throw us all for an even bigger loop.

I didn't know there were any plans for finishing the Metal Gear series anytime soon.

Kojima has said that he is probably finished with the series after Snake Eater. He is a first generation games developer and there have been whispers about his retirement for years, which seem likely to be true if he is planning on abandoning the series after this game. Of course, given his trickeries in the past, this could all be an elaborate ruse.

Even if he does go though, that doesn't mean the end of Metal Gear.

I have no idea what the in-universe explanation is; "Genome Soldiers" are undoubtedly American; why they'd be using French weaponry is beyond me. Same with the presence of the HIND D; anyone with connections to Spetsnaz, considering the near-future setting, would've at least been able to get their hands on a Mi-24V HIND E or Mi-24P HIND F

I think it might be hard for even someone with the connections Gurlukovich did to explain the loss of a helicopter in the first place, let alone a state of the art one. He might very well have simply acquired a retired one and given it to Liquid. Also remember that in MGS2, Gurlukovich's Spetsnaz team was well equipped with small arms, but they didn't have any aircraft aside from the two civilian helicopters (the Harrier and the drones were provided by Solidus).

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-29 02:33pm

Vympel wrote:*snip*

Yeah; I wanted the Jeep M60 replaced with the M240.

Vympel wrote:One thing that continues to irk me however is the use of the Stinger as some sort of all purpose rocket launcher. It's just retarded. An RPG-7 could've easily fulfilled all it's uses, including fighting the aircraft (if Somalis can do it, Solid Snake can).

Yeah; I've always wanted them to make bosses harder but still as easily killed as any other human being; same with yourself (slightly harder given your superduper Sneaking Suit and body armor.

The Stinger doesn't bother me against aircraft; though again it should only take one direct hit or maybe two glancings to kill it.

Eh, I don't know whether it bothers me that much that you shoot MGs with the Stinger; they really wanted that homing missile bit in there.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-02-29 04:00pm

I have never played MGS2, but I have heard its plot described as the "best reason to cut off all ties with Japan" by Penny Arcade. What's so funky about it?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-02-29 06:44pm

Joe wrote:I have never played MGS2, but I have heard its plot described as the "best reason to cut off all ties with Japan" by Penny Arcade. What's so funky about it?

Here is a nice, detailed summary of the plot. Although it is a little out there, it isn't nearly as bad as that Penny Arcade quote makes it out to be.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-02-29 08:00pm

The worst thing about MG has always been Hideo Kojima's anti-war bullshit. It made MGS a constantly wincing experience, and gave us Raiden. I personally can understand the whole Japanese/antiwar/antinuke thing, but preachy whiny bullshit isn't the way to go. You can almost sense when an in-game character begins to channel his spirit, and starts going on for up to 10 minutes off-topic... and there's no 'clean gun' or 'use subdermal radio, find trash rock' button to ease the boredom.

Now I like the games, I played MG when it came out on the NES and I was 7. But it's been largely outdone by SC, and SC's even multi now. So why revisit it? If the only stuff they can do is make Snake a superhero, then how's that going to make up for MGS2? If it was on PC, it'd be okay, cos we could mod the shit out of it; but we have to live with their no-pickup enemy guns universe.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-02-29 08:55pm

The appallingly bad scientific ignorance displayed in MGS1 also always bugged me. I felt insulted; either Kojima was convinced his public was completely ignorant of basic genetics (which is unlikely, due to the high quality of Japanese education) or he was just a fucking idiot himself.

Not to mention the stupid genetic ethics pseudobabble..."You mustn't allow yourself to be ruled by your genes!" Gag me.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-02-29 08:57pm

The demo would've been cooler if I'd just turned the damn sound off. Jesus, bad writing and bad acting all in the same package. To top it off, the storyline that was done first by Twins over ten years ago as a comedy with DeVito and Schwarzenegger.

I can't say enough bad things about the acting and writing. Whoever plays Solid Snake sounds like he chain-smoked for 3 years to get a "bad-ass" voice but really just ended up sounding like he is locked in an eternal struggle on the toilet to get out a massive turd.

The "rookie" exchange was just awful from both a writing and acting standpoint. All that stuff about "on the battlefield" just made me roll my eyes. The "telepathy" thing was just stupid. Is this a spy thriller or X-Men?

The guy with the revolver was stupid. The telepathic guy was stupid. The Raven guy was stupid. Snake's "brother" was stupid. Jesus, that's a whole lot of stupid for one game.