Verdict in on The Passion

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2004-02-26 04:10pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Sam Or I wrote:If it is presented in a nonchalant, I do not see how it could be acceptable, while taking violence seriously is not.
I think you're missing the whole fucking point, which is that the SAME fundies who protested the violence in "Kill Bill" have no problem with the violence in "The Passion", and worse yet, they're taking their kids to see it. Nobody was taking their kids to see "Kill Bill".

The original point of the thread was the reviews of the Passion. I don't disagree with you one bit. The fundies that do that are idiots. My point was it goes both ways, people who love "fun" violent films find it horrifying when violence is depicted as real. (Granted it is not as fucked up as taking your kid to see either film).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-26 04:14pm

I don't see why that would contradict, because it all depends on presentation.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-02-26 07:01pm

Superman wrote:Huh?

Someone paid our dear Lord Wong to see Matrix: Revolutions.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-02-26 07:08pm

I'm watching it tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Oddysseus · Post by **Oddysseus** » 2004-02-26 07:27pm

Sam Or I wrote:Why wasn't this amount of up roar about violience when kill bill came out? If its a nameless nija that gets slaughtered it is acceptable. If its a character(s) which we are supposed to care about, and violence shown in an emotional way other than cool, its grotesk!!!
...

I for one saw the trailer for Kill Bill and was impressed by the style and music (and all the...omages). But once I saw who made it, I knew I wouldn't see it. His moveis are infamous as being gorey and mindlessly violent. Him making a movie like that is like the coming of Monday, that's one factor. Second, almost NO ONE would willingly take their child to his films. Too violent.

But this movie, with chunks of flesh ripped out with a special whip among other treasures, has kids being drug in in large numbers. They should have treated it like a horror movie, put a disclaimer o it. Warning, don't let your kiddies see this. Talk about a way to get kids to want to see this movie.

That ain't right.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2004-02-26 09:17pm

I saw it today at 3:45.

It's essentially as I expected. A couple hours of beating the crap out of and finally killing a dude for saying crap that was disruptive to the system. Not much of a plot, but it isn't as invalid as you might think. If you consider it as representative of all martyr-type deals seeing it in this way could give you a potentially useful philosophical lesson.

The amount of blood/gore was way overrated. It was nowhere near as gratuitous as Kill Bill. Almost all of his skin was lacerated, and it was extremely brutal and sadistic, but there was no specific thing that made me cringe like some of the injuries in the other film.

The camera work was all really nice. Very good use of colors and different angles. Also some exceptional acting by all of the cast. The movie's probably worth watching for those components alone.

In conclusion... it definitely does not suck. Nothing really unexpected, but as a work of cinema it's pretty impressive.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-02-26 10:41pm

I saw it. I had to satisfy my curiosity about the film. It wasn't too bad, though I got a little bit tired of the interminable flashbacks. The violence was pretty brutal, and that led me to an interesting thought - one which I am sure has occured to a great many other people, but strangely never seems to occur to most Christians.

The central tenet of Christian theology is that Christ had to come and be born on earth in order to die for mankind's sins. He basically had to be a sacrificial lamb. But if God is omnipotent, as Christians claim, why could he not simply forgive mankind? Why could God not simply say: "alright, men are fallible, and they sin, but if they at least try to live a good life, I'm willing to forgive their faults and let them into heaven"? Why should it be necessary that he send Jesus down to suffer brutal and sadistic tortures before he could find it in his heart to forgive? What does this say about the character of the God Christians worship, and more importantly, why do they not understand that any being who made such a horrible act of bloodshed a necessity for forgiveness is hardly what I would call a being of infinite love, goodness, and mercy? Why does this thought never seem to occur to them?

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2004-02-27 12:01am

I'm thinking of changing my previous stance of "not ever going to see it" to "going to see it" just because everybody is saying it's so violent. Now, I've seen Pier Paolo Pasolini's Salò, which is pretty fucking violent, so I have to see if this one tops it. Of course, Salò had more sexual torture/dominance/forcing-people-to-eat-shit than physical, bloody torture (though that was there too), so The Passion might beat it on the bloody count, but I doubt it will beat it on the disturbing count.

Of course, if I do see it, I'll sneak in rather than paying. Fuck Mel Gibson's money-grubbing ass.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-02-27 04:03am

Here's a good example of what I was talking about earlier. This is from another board:

Ave Maria wrote:Christ was not crucified on a "stake" for a stake would not have a "crossbeam." Anything with a crossbeam would accurately be described as a cross. A "tree" is a definite metaphor, the minute details aside: and after seeing this movie twice already, (First time on my own and then brought the family) its depiction is far closer to the gospel accounts than anything seen on film before or we could possibly ever see in the future. "Too Bloody" or "too" brutal are ridiculous because, of course, in actuality it was far worse. After viewing the movie first, I found it appropriate for my 13, 12 and 10 yr old, but I exchanged my 9 yr old's ticket for a refund and didn't bring him. (He's always been sensitive) My children weren't "scarred", "shocked," or "traumatized" by anything they saw. They LIVE their faith, pray the sorrowful mysteries and felt very close to his sacrifice BEFORE even going in. I WAS THE ONE CRYING THROUGHOUT! The ten year old sniffled twice........when the first whip hit and his crying out to the heavenly father. She never bawled, broke down and was a chatterbox afterwards. If anything, this film gives our ritual of kissing the crucifix a whole deeper meaning. (when we are done with our rosary) The crying adults are easier to explain......OUR SINS ARE FAR WORSE! You will recall many things you have done to him while watching the scourging. You will recall anytime you sat and said nothing about a religious joke and finally you will weep simply because you love him and finally realize just what your sin cost....the price to be paid. Was I crushed? Did I love this movie? YES AND YES!!!! I will see it a third time Sat. because I delve another layer into its meaning every time I see it.

The controversy surrounding this movie has just become painfully obvious. It will change lives, People will convert, many more will buckle down and become holier........and when they do, they will demand a much more "pure" society to live in, sans gay marriage, abortion etc. THAT IS WHAT THEY'VE TRULY BEEN SCARED OF!!! Lukewarms returning to the practice of their faith and finding their voices and being wretched away from that dol-gonned television set! Mel is many more inches closer to the holiness he desires for not letting anything stop him. They tried. He is our new General in this spiritual warfare where the battle is invisible.

As I said, this woman sees this depiction of brutal and sadistic torture, of a mother's anguish at seeing her son tortured to death as she watches helplessly, of the condemned man's friends also being put through the most terrible grief, and of one of the crueler kinds of execution ever devised by human ingenuity, and this woman believes that her God (supposedly a loving God of infinite mercy) requires this savage act of cruelty be performed in order to forgive mankind of its sins. It never, for an instant occurs to her to wonder why God found it necessary to engineer this awful and blood-soaked spectacle in order to forgive people of their sins, instead of simply forgiving them. I mean, surely it's in his power to do so. Is God a sadist?

And of course, she's dragging her kids to this. She points out that they are not traumatized by it, and they "live" their faith. Unfortunately, this means the poor kids are doubtless already thoroughly indoctrinated. I can imagine this family seated around the dinner table discussing the moral depravity of modern society, and all the gratuitous violence in the cinema and on TV, and I can even picture them condemning sex and nudity in the movies, as though seeing a woman's breasts is worse than seeing a man get the hide flayed off him for ten minutes by a couple of Roman soldiers swinging whips with metal hooks on the ends. And of course, this woman and her husband have no doubt been teaching their kids that this horrid tale of cruelty is all about love.

I will never undertand the mind of the true religious believer. I used to be one as a child, and looking back on it, I simply can't conceive of it any more. The longer I am an atheist, the more amazed I am that I used to believe these things, and the more I wonder how I ever did.

Oddysseus · Post by **Oddysseus** » 2004-02-27 04:17am

Yeah I know how you feel. My dad was born and grew up in South America. They can often be very intense in their faith. Scary sometimes. But luckily for me he's pretty mellow. He isn't that interested in dragging us to church or force scripture down our throats. Nor is he a fan of blood. He hates vampire and horror movies (though, oddly, he likes CSI). Just the idea of this move (and we are talking about a Catholic) makes him sick. The clips he's seen are nausiating. guess after you see cicil war, and friends and family die, you don't need horror films. The fact people "need" and intently want ot see this movie is offputting. Are they trying to prove their piety (I can sit through this and think only of Him and His love.)? Or is their faith so distant and intangible that they need the whole "He died for your sins" thing literally played out moment for moment to make sense?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2004-02-27 05:37am

I'm still quite fascinated to see it just for the speaking of those dead languages, and the scenes in such a very ancient city. But I don't feel like seeing it until the fundamentalist crowds have gone away a bit. Also, it is a encapsulation of classic Catholic doctrine on film, which I shall enjoy simply for the sake of being able to observe it; to observe the depiction of what is behind the words. The blood is quite worth all that.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2004-02-27 05:46am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I'm still quite fascinated to see it just for the speaking of those dead languages, and the scenes in such a very ancient city. But I don't feel like seeing it until the fundamentalist crowds have gone away a bit. Also, it is a encapsulation of classic Catholic doctrine on film, which I shall enjoy simply for the sake of being able to observe it; to observe the depiction of what is behind the words. The blood is quite worth all that.

I noticed that the Latin, which I actually understood somewhat, was pronounced like church Latin, not the classical Latin I learned in college.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2004-02-27 01:27pm

They have ads for this movie hanging in the restrooms of my college. It just proves that you can't go anywhere without being reminded that it exists.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-02-27 01:36pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Also, it is a encapsulation of classic Catholic doctrine on film, which I shall enjoy simply for the sake of being able to observe it; to observe the depiction of what is behind the words.

Yeah, that's primarily my reasons for wanting to see it. I dig that old school stuff.