TORONTO — It's "totally inexcusable" and "offensive" that U.S. police crashed through a border crossing in Niagara Falls during a high-speed pursuit that ended up killing an Ontario woman, the province's community safety minister said Friday.
Apparently the Niagara Falls, NY police were in a high speed pursuit of a carjacking suspect and followed him across the border into Canada, where the guy ran over a woman and killed her.
WTF were those idiot cops thinking??
Shit, most police agencies have hard and fast rules about hot pursuit into neighboring states that include at least notifying the other state of the pursuit, much less about pursuit into a foreign country where legally US police have no authority whatsoever.
Those cops should lose their jobs over this at the very least.
And as for the carjacker? Too bad that NY can't execute him for a murder committed in Canada.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Gosh golly gee....maybe Canada should invade the US like all the dipshits were saying when similar mistakes happened with Mexico.
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Keevan_Colton wrote:Gosh golly gee....maybe Canada should invade the US like all the dipshits were saying when similar mistakes happened with Mexico.
As much as this incident sucks, it doesn't even begin to compare with bought off Mexican Army units crossing the border to protect smugglers and firing on US border patrolmen.
Invade Mexico? No.
Tell the Mexicans that the next unit to cross the border under arms won't be going back except on a blotter? Damn straight.
At least in this case, the cops' supervisor showed some common sense and immediately ordered them to cease pursuit and leave Canada at once.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Keevan_Colton wrote:Gosh golly gee....maybe Canada should invade the US like all the dipshits were saying when similar mistakes happened with Mexico.
apples and oranges asshole, and you goddamn know it. There is a big fucking diference between soldiers that fire DELIBERATELY on customs agents to protect drug smugglers, and a hot head cop making a bad judgement and accidently killing someone while crossing the border in pursuit of a suspected violent felon.
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Keevan_Colton wrote:...At least in this case, the cops' supervisor showed some common sense and immediately ordered them to cease pursuit and leave Canada at once.
Common sense? Whate else could he say?
"One person dead? Violated the border and violated various treaties with Canada? But you got the perp right?"
The moment he heard, he had to think, "Oh my God. Get the fuck out of there!"
How far did they go in? Did they slide over the border? Was there still a hostage, because their doesn't seem to be one in the vehicle later?
I know it's hard for the Americans accept, but you can't violate another country just because it suits you. Same goes for all us citizens.
- Odd Jack, Jaded Skeptic
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"The universe is a strange and wondrous place. The truth is quite odd enough to need no help from pseudoscientific charlatans." - Richard Dawkins
I know it's hard for the Americans accept, but you can't violate another country just because it suits you. Same goes for all us citizens.
Umm, no one here is defending what those idiotic, shit-for-brains NY cops did. So what's your point?
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Col. Crackpot wrote:apples and oranges asshole, and you goddamn know it. There is a big fucking diference between soldiers that fire DELIBERATELY on customs agents to protect drug smugglers, and a hot head cop making a bad judgement and accidently killing someone while crossing the border in pursuit of a suspected violent felon.
No, the cop didn't hit her, the guy who was being pursued did.
Oddysseus wrote:I know it's hard for the Americans accept, but you can't violate another country just because it suits you. Same goes for all us citizens.
And you're an idiot. No one has yet to say that those police should have crossed the border into another nation. I'm getting fairly tired of hearing about how us evil Americans are just itching to go shoot some people in another country.
I'm confused here. Couldn't the NY cops simply call ahead to the border and request that it be shut down, thus preventing the carjacker's crossing into Ontario? I would imagine the Canadians would be happy to stop a possibly armed criminal from entering their country.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
THat's exactly why high-speed chases aren't a good idea.
But if you conduct them on a more or less regular basis (as US police apparently do), you should be able to make such decisions.
"If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon,
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
GySgt. Hartman wrote:THat's exactly why high-speed chases aren't a good idea.
But if you conduct them on a more or less regular basis (as US police apparently do), you should be able to make such decisions.
Actually, most cops aren't likely to ever be in a chase. While they are pretty common nationwide; they are far, far from common in any given city. Hence, most cops have never had the experience and fairly uneven training for the possibility.
Keevan_Colton wrote:Gosh golly gee....maybe Canada should invade the US like all the dipshits were saying when similar mistakes happened with Mexico.
apples and oranges asshole, and you goddamn know it. There is a big fucking diference between soldiers that fire DELIBERATELY on customs agents to protect drug smugglers, and a hot head cop making a bad judgement and accidently killing someone while crossing the border in pursuit of a suspected violent felon.
could someone provide me a link to the stories of the mexican army firing on US gov. agents?
You should try to reach an agreement on who is giong to invade whom. Somehow I doubt that when Chardok said "spearhead", he meant "defense spearhead". Nothing is more frustrating than two countrys invading each other at the same time - you'll end up with the Canadian army in Washington and the US army in Ottawa. Then you have to turn back and have both armies attack each other from their respective enemys country. That's a pretty fucked up war.
Stormbringer wrote:Actually, most cops aren't likely to ever be in a chase. While they are pretty common nationwide; they are far, far from common in any given city. Hence, most cops have never had the experience and fairly uneven training for the possibility.
If they aren't properly trained, they shouldn't chase people. It's like saying "they aren't experienced in using their gun, because they don't have firefights very often". Cars are just as deadly as guns when handled improperly.
"If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon,
you will be a minister of death, praying for war." - GySgt. Hartman
"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see." - GySgt. Hartman
Stormbringer wrote:Actually, most cops aren't likely to ever be in a chase. While they are pretty common nationwide; they are far, far from common in any given city. Hence, most cops have never had the experience and fairly uneven training for the possibility.
If they aren't properly trained, they shouldn't chase people. It's like saying "they aren't experienced in using their gun, because they don't have firefights very often". Cars are just as deadly as guns when handled improperly.
I agree, one reason most police departments will back off or break off entirely a pursuit that's gotten too fast and/or out of hand. I was just pointing out that most US cops aren't a bunch of cowboys that start high speed chases at the drop of hat.
GySgt. Hartman wrote:THat's exactly why high-speed chases aren't a good idea.
But if you conduct them on a more or less regular basis (as US police apparently do), you should be able to make such decisions.
Want to know how many times Dad has been in an actual high speed chase? Once. Know how long he's been in law enforcement? 25+ years.
Police only conduct high speed chases as a last resort, and only for dangerous criminals. What do you expect them to do with an armed bankrobber? Let him go on his merry way?
GySgt. Hartman wrote:If they aren't properly trained, they shouldn't chase people. It's like saying "they aren't experienced in using their gun, because they don't have firefights very often". Cars are just as deadly as guns when handled improperly.
Actually, most polie go through extensive drivers training. And cars are more deadly than guns, even when handled properly, but that's a whole other story.
Nathan F wrote:Actually, most polie go through extensive drivers training. And cars are more deadly than guns, even when handled properly, but that's a whole other story.
Extensive? No, I'd say they're more like quickie courses. You learn the basics of handling a big cop car and that's about it. You don't learn too many of the things that are taught in an advanced driver training course, such as various apexes in turns, how to slide the car, how to do bootlegger's turns, skid control on wet or slippery surfaces and all that other fun stuff. Not to mention more applicable stuff like how to pin or ram a car against a guardrail or off the road.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Of course, it wasn't the cops that lost control and killed the woman. So whether they knew that or not doesn't seem to be the problem. It was the carjacker that was the problem.
A chase is only as safe as the dumbest guy involved.
I do wonder, though. What would have happened if they had caught them? They couldn't have arrested the person, they would have been way out of their jurisdiction. Would they have tried to hold the person at the location until the local constabulary could perform an arrest?
Hell, Even as an MP (Glorified infantry with a badge) We did EVOC (emergency vehicle operations course) Training which taught such things as the infamous PITT manouver, J-turns, high-speed handling of front and rear wheel drive vehicles, etc.
It's fairly advanced. I like to think civilian police, with no wartime mission, per se', have much higher degree of training than lowly MP's. I was even in a couple high speed chases. They were short though, as once they got off-base, it was a matter for WSP (Washington state patrol) to handle. Fine with us, too. Less paperwork.
