Could an ISD capture the Enterprise?

[Darth Wong]

I think we need to keep in mind that the Enterprise-D was once captured by a squad of Ferengis. It may be as simple as leaving the ISD behind and using an assault shuttle. Just tell them that you're having engine problems and ask to be towed into their shuttle bay, whereupon you kill the shuttle bay crewmen before they can sound the alarm, walk calmly to the bridge, seize control of it, and then anesthetize the crew with knockout gas.

Mind you, that presumes some kind of prior intel, but given the fact that an incarcerated criminal from a non-Federation world (Roga Danar) knew the internal layout of a GCS and they give ship tours through sensitive areas for visiting foreign dignitaries and their entourage with no security screening whatsoever, I'd say that GCS technical data can probably be had in the alpha quadrant for a shiny bauble or two.

[Comosicus]

How about removing the warp nacels from the ships hull? I mean hitting the support pilons. Would that cause a core breach too?

[Dark Hellion]

I hope by bauble you mean rock, because I would feel ripped off to pay much more than that for GCS plans.
And Comosicus, probably. The main problem with capturing GCSs is that it is hard to hit them without them blowing up. It is ironic that the difficulty of capturing a ship would not be from internal resistance or from its ability to fight back, but from the near inability of the enemy to disable it without blowing it up. Only on a VS. community would you get this.

[SpyderGS]

Hmmm, something like this I think:
Picard: Open hailing frequencies. This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation Starship Enterprise, we come in peace and seek mutually advantageous contact.
Troi: Captain, I sense something-Urk! (Blood spurts from Troi's nose and ears, she collapses to the floor)
Picard: Oh My God! Doctor Crusher medical emergency on the bridge, standby for transport! Transporter room, lock on to Couselor Troi's combadge and transport her directly to sickbay! Energize! (Sparkly effects)
***Two minutes later***
Crusher: Crusher to Picard, she's dead, Jim--I mean Jean-Luc.
Picard: Oh, the humanity. Open Hailing frequencies! Unidentified vessel, this is Captain Picard. Please identify yourself and state your intentions.

ABOARD THE SUPER STAR DESTROYER EXECUTOR:
Tinny voice from speaker:..state your intentions.
Piett: They appear to be oblivious to the realities of the universe my Lord.
Vader: Excellent. Admiral Piett, extend our courtesies.
Piett: This is Admiral Piett aboard the Imperial Super Star Destroyer Executor. Captain Picard, greetings on behalf of our Emperor. Please allow me to extend hospitalities to you and your senior staff. We will be dining in approximately 2 hours, please join us.
Picard: Admiral! We are honored and happy to accept your invitations!
Piett: How many in your staff will be joining us?
Picard: Six.
Piett: Excellent, I will have the cooks and stewards informed. Will you require a shuttle?
Picard: No, Admiral, my senior staff and I will beam over.
Piett: Beam?
Picard: Yes, matter transmitters.
Piett: Ah, I see.
Picard, distracted offscreen, blah blah. : Actually Admiral, I am informed that your hull armor will interfere with out transporters, so we will come over in one of our shuttles if that is acceptable.
Piett: Of course.

Two hours later, Enterprise senior staff debarks aboard the Executor amid a full honor guard of Imperial Stormtroopers.
Picard: Greetings Admiral. Allow me to introduce, Commander Riker. Doctor Crusher, Lieutenant Worf, Lieutenant Commanders Data and LeForge.
Piett: Excellent. Allow me to introduce Lord Vader.
Vader: Captain. Admiral Piett, now would be an excellent time.
Piett signals the honor guard.
STUN STUN STUN STUN STUN STUN. BLAST as a Stormie recognizes that Data is apparently unaffected by the stun. Data explodes.

Over the next 2 hours, Each member of the away team is tortured by seasoned Imperial professionals and Vader.

The Enterprise crew are relieved of their combadges. Vader exerts controls over Picard, not with mind tricks, as Picard's will is too strong, but with the simple threat of killing everyone on board the Enterprise.

Picard, Vader and a crack Imperial commando squad board the Enterprise shuttle while another crack squad and some Imperial commandos dressed as officers board an Imperial shuttle.

Picard gains clearance for both to land in the Enterprise docking bay. He and Vader debark the shuttle, along with Vader's "entourage". Picard instructs a junior officer to provide a tour to the Imperial officer party aboard the Imperial shuttle. Picard leads Vader and the commandos to the bridge.
The junior officer leads the commandos from the Imperial shuttle around for about half an hour before finally arriving in Engineering. The squad in Engineering coms Vader.
Commando: We are in position my Lord.
Vader: You may begin.
Junior Engineering Officer: Wha-? Thud.

Gas grenades begin going off seconds after Imperial commandos get the Go. Nose filters installed before leaving the Executor protect the commandos from the effects of the gas. Engineering is under Imperial control within a minute.

On the bridge, Vader gives the go sign to the commando squad with him. Events repeat themselves.

Vader: Admiral Piett, you may begin boarding operations.
Piett: Yes my Lord.

Five assault shuttles depart Executor and within minutes, squads of Stormtroopers are rounding up prisoners and locking them in the now vacated hangar bay. Any useful equipment there is removed or destroyed. Stormtroopers meet only token and innefectual resistance.

[General Zod]

I hope by bauble you mean rock, because I would feel ripped off to pay much more than that for GCS plans.
And Comosicus, probably. The main problem with capturing GCSs is that it is hard to hit them without them blowing up. It is ironic that the difficulty of capturing a ship would not be from internal resistance or from its ability to fight back, but from the near inability of the enemy to disable it without blowing it up. Only on a VS. community would you get this.

(emphasis mine) i've already demonstrated how this is possible. target the nacells and as long as the ship is in mostly decent condition, it shall not explode.

[The Kernel]

(emphasis mine) i've already demonstrated how this is possible. target the nacells and as long as the ship is in mostly decent condition, it shall not explode.

There's still the small issue of getting around the self-destruct system. The self-destruct on a GCS is not a simple overload of the warp core, but the destruction of well placed charges inside the hull (think ST III) which render it a lifeless hulk. Because of this, if you are really serious about capturing it intact, you cannot simply overwhelm them according to standard Imperial practice. Some form of deceit must be used (that said, it still wouldn't be all that difficult considering how trusting the Federation usually is with new species).

[General Zod]

true. the empire could send envoys over to negotiate, then blast the nacelles while their shields are down. and while the envoy's on board he could disable the bridge crew with various measures as the nacelles get fired upon. or hold the rest of the crew as blackmail, etc.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Could an ISD capture the Enterprise?

That depends to some extent on the Enterprise. Kirk would sooner destroy the Enterprise or Enterprise-A than let it fall into enemy hands.

Seeing how badly he was overmatched in battle, Picard would surrender the Enterprise-D to save the lives of the crew.

Just like how badly the E-D was overmatched in TNG "Defector"? Picard didn't seem like he was going to surrender just to save lives, I'm confident Picard would also destroy his ship as well. However, according to STN you can disable the auto-destruct so that really shouldn't be a problem.

[Thunderfire]

The firepower difference is the real problem here. Even fighter weapons might cause a warp core breach.

Highly unlikely. SW fighter lasers are in the single-digit KT range. This is considerably lower than ST capital ship weaponry..

ST shields are more effective vs warheads. Their shields should be in the TJ range vs beam weapons.

[Ted C]

Seeing how badly he was overmatched in battle, Picard would surrender the Enterprise-D to save the lives of the crew.

Just like how badly the E-D was overmatched in TNG "Defector"?

Ah, but he wasn't that badly overmatched. He new he had three Klingon warships as reinforcements. He had a good bargaining position; the Romulans could have destroyed the Enterprise, but the Klingons would have destroyed them as well.

Picard didn't seem like he was going to surrender just to save lives, I'm confident Picard would also destroy his ship as well.

He doesn't have a good track record. He left the Stargazer derelict in space to be captured by the Ferengi after the Battle of Maxia.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ah, but he wasn't that badly overmatched. He new he had three Klingon warships as reinforcements. He had a good bargaining position; the Romulans could have destroyed the Enterprise, but the Klingons would have destroyed them as well.

True, however, that doesn't seem like it would save a lot of lives on the E-D. I'm still confident Picard would destroy the Enterprise rather than let it fall into enemy hands.

He doesn't have a good track record. He left the Stargazer derelict in space to be captured by the Ferengi after the Battle of Maxia.

We don't know what happened with the Battle of Maxia, maybe the auto-destruct was disabled.

[Tribun]

We don't know what happened with the Battle of Maxia, maybe the auto-destruct was disabled.

Picard had to make sure that the Stargaze wouldn't fall into enemy hands. Even if he had to kill himself while shooting with a phaser on the warp core to make it breach.
That he did not did it, made him not fullfilling his duty.

[Kamakazie Sith]

We don't know what happened with the Battle of Maxia, maybe the auto-destruct was disabled.

Picard had to make sure that the Stargaze wouldn't fall into enemy hands. Even if he had to kill himself while shooting with a phaser on the warp core to make it breach.
That he did not did it, made him not fullfilling his duty.

Maybe he tried. Once again I reiterate that we don't know what happened on the Stargazer. If he was knocked unconcious then it would be a little difficult to fire a phaser at the warp core while you're being rescued by your crew and shoved into an escape pod.

[Trogdor]

Unless the Imps know practically all there is to know about the Enterprise, I doubt it. Of course, knowing it perfectly would probably defeat the purpose of capturing it, depending on what your motive is.

The Galaxy class was just too fragile to expect an ISD to be able to capture it intact. I think an ISD would destroy the Enterprise trying to incapcaitate it.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Unless the Imps know practically all there is to know about the Enterprise, I doubt it. Of course, knowing it perfectly would probably defeat the purpose of capturing it, depending on what your motive is.

The Galaxy class was just too fragile to expect an ISD to be able to capture it intact. I think an ISD would destroy the Enterprise trying to incapcaitate it.

Why?

[Rogue 9]

Unless the Imps know practically all there is to know about the Enterprise, I doubt it. Of course, knowing it perfectly would probably defeat the purpose of capturing it, depending on what your motive is.

The Galaxy class was just too fragile to expect an ISD to be able to capture it intact. I think an ISD would destroy the Enterprise trying to incapcaitate it.

Why?

Because their warp cores breach if you look at them funny, much less hit the ship with a turbolaser.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Unless the Imps know practically all there is to know about the Enterprise, I doubt it. Of course, knowing it perfectly would probably defeat the purpose of capturing it, depending on what your motive is.

The Galaxy class was just too fragile to expect an ISD to be able to capture it intact. I think an ISD would destroy the Enterprise trying to incapcaitate it.

Why?

Because their warp cores breach if you look at them funny, much less hit the ship with a turbolaser.

Why would they disabled a ship with turbolasers when an ISD is bristlying with Ion Cannons. Besides, all the battle core breaches came from someone trying to destroy them not disable, and all those were after taking significant punishment. Unless you can think of another.....

[Darth Wong]

Unless the Imps know practically all there is to know about the Enterprise, I doubt it. Of course, knowing it perfectly would probably defeat the purpose of capturing it, depending on what your motive is.

They only have to know as much as Roga Danar did; how to get around, and how to operate certain basic systems. The ship could be towed back to base once they have possession.

[Knife]

Unless the Imps know practically all there is to know about the Enterprise, I doubt it. Of course, knowing it perfectly would probably defeat the purpose of capturing it, depending on what your motive is.

They only have to know as much as Roga Danar did; how to get around, and how to operate certain basic systems. The ship could be towed back to base once they have possession.

Knowing the massive disparity between SW shields and ST weapons, wouldn't it be just as effective to slap a tractor beam on the Enterprise and drag it back to base. Using the tractor beam to position the Enterprise so as to reduce its arc of fire, would not the shields of a ISD hold for a ridicuously long time?

Hmmm (checks Mike's site). Ok, using the 7MT/s figure for the phasers on shields and 24000MT (1E20 joules) for the ISD shields, *crunch numbers* I get roughly 57 minutes of continuous fire for a phaser to bring down the ISD shield.

*can someone check that, my math kung fu is weak*

Now that is 57 minutes of contiunous fire. I don't think a Federation Phaser can continously fire for almost an hour, perhaps they can, but I doubt it. It is also only one phaser. If the Enterprise can bring more than one phaser to bear, then it changes, obvioulsy.

So to avoid the torpedo arcs, the ISD would probably postion the Enterprise so that either the ventral or dorsal surface faced the ISD or perhaps one of the profiles. From this angle, I can only see perhaps a total of two phasers that could be brought to bear. Well, three in the dorsal and ventral.

So now we get 19 minutes of continous fire for shield breach but we really should double that because I've never seen a Fed phaser fire for more than a hand full of seconds on full power and then fire again a few secondes later.

So to be super generous, the ISD would have roughly 30 minutes to drag the Enterprise to where ever they wanted before there were even a threat to collapsing a shield.

My only hitch in this stategy, is can you drag someone through hyperspace with a tractor beam? Is there a EU reference to it? With 30 minutes of time, the ISD could drag the Enterprise pretty damn far and if they planned right, drag the Enterprise back to the main fleet or base or temporary base or whatever.

[Tribun]

We know, that special shield-breaching equipment exists. (AOTC)
Why no putting the Enterprise into a tractorbeam, and then deploy Zero-G troopers to create openings in the shield though which they fly onto the hull. Or they could breach through the shield with the weapons they carry.

Either they could invade the ship now, or they could pump nerve gas trough the hull into the ship.

[Ryoga]

I'm probably going to get beaten for this, but my vote is 'no'.

And, for the record, that's a 'no' that doesn't reflect favorably on Starfleet.

Turbolasers would probably destroy the ship outright. Ion cannons are also out (ions are notoriously rough on SF ships, and the multitude of powered systems needed to hold the piece of junk together means that a sudden loss of power would probably cause an explosion). Their best bet would be tractor beams and stormtrooper raiding parties, but the tractor beam would have to brute-force them in.

[NecronLord]

Hmmm (checks Mike's site). Ok, using the 7MT/s figure for the phasers on shields and 24000MT (1E20 joules) for the ISD shields, *crunch numbers* I get roughly 57 minutes of continuous fire for a phaser to bring down the ISD shield.

*can someone check that, my math kung fu is weak*

Sure can. AOTC ICS gives higher numbers for shields. And advances a theory, by using watts for shield measurements, that the shield output isn't like ST where single shots take a slice out of the sheilds ("20%!") reserve. According to AOTC ICS they'd need to smack it with 24000Mt (using that calc) in a second to overcome the shield. Which they can't.

[Knife]

Sure can. AOTC ICS gives higher numbers for shields. And advances a theory, by using watts for shield measurements, that the shield output isn't like ST where single shots take a slice out of the sheilds ("20%!") reserve. According to AOTC ICS they'd need to smack it with 24000Mt (using that calc) in a second to overcome the shield. Which they can't.

Well then, either way the ISD has plenty of time to snatch and grab the Enterprise and then take it back to a more private and intimate place to 'negotiate'.

[Trogdor]

Unless the Imps know practically all there is to know about the Enterprise, I doubt it. Of course, knowing it perfectly would probably defeat the purpose of capturing it, depending on what your motive is.

They only have to know as much as Roga Danar did; how to get around, and how to operate certain basic systems. The ship could be towed back to base once they have possession.

But do they know as much as Roga Danar? The newbie who made this scenario didn't specify how much the Imps know about the Enterprise. He could want a simple, "ISD gets thrown into Trekverse and stumbles upon E-D" sort of thing.

I only think an ISD would blow the Enterprise by accident because in every fic I've read here where someone from SW tries to capture a Fed ship, they use the ion cannons, which is natural, since they're disabling weapons, and the result is always the Fed ship losing anitmatter containment or whatever and going boom. If they catch the ship with a tractor beam, there's a good chance Picard would blow the ship (or that the Imperial tractors beams would rip apart the Enterprise if it tried to struggle).

[Darth Wong]

But do they know as much as Roga Danar?

The guy was a prisoner who had been incarcerated since before the Enterprise was even built. If he knew its layout, the information must be so widely available that anybody can pick it up for a song.

The newbie who made this scenario didn't specify how much the Imps know about the Enterprise. He could want a simple, "ISD gets thrown into Trekverse and stumbles upon E-D" sort of thing.

If that happened, why would they even be trying to capture it? It seems implicit to me that they would already have had some experience with this part of space before attempting to capture a GCS. I would tend to think that their first exposure to a GCS would involve them either blowing it up, negotiating with it, or seeing it warp away for its life. The notion of a "capture the GCS" operation implies that some level of planning is allowed.