Question about elections in USA

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-15 08:19pm

us citizens give votes to a guy from a certain party from the state the citizens live in. these state guys then elect the president. people who live outside the usa give their votes to the guys from the states they´ve lived in last. now, i´ve got dual citizenship (german/usa) but i´ve never lived in the states.
i´ve never thought about it because i never considered voting in the states because i dont live there. i´ve just voted in germany.
the next time i want to vote though just to help getting rid of bush.

so, does anyone know whom i´d give my vote?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-15 08:22pm

AFAIK, the United States does not recognize dual citizenship (ie Germany will, but the US will not)?

EDIT: I'm wrong, they do recognize it.

As such, I'm pretty sure you can't vote, seeing as you would not be able to register in a state for an absentee ballot.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-10-15 08:24pm

salm wrote:us citizens give votes to a guy from a certain party from the state the citizens live in. these state guys then elect the president. people who live outside the usa give their votes to the guys from the states they´ve lived in last. now, i´ve got dual citizenship (german/usa) but i´ve never lived in the states.
i´ve never thought about it because i never considered voting in the states because i dont live there. i´ve just voted in germany.
the next time i want to vote though just to help getting rid of bush.

so, does anyone know whom i´d give my vote?

Just a little history lesson the only time something like this happened was the slave wars in Kansas I forgot the offical name, blood everywhere sign of war too come. (The Civil War)

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-15 08:25pm

Anyways, I would contact the nearest US consulate or embassy to figure this out.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-15 08:27pm

phongn wrote:AFAIK, the United States does not recognize dual citizenship (ie Germany will, but the US will not)?

EDIT: I'm wrong, they do recognize it.

As such, I'm pretty sure you can't vote, seeing as you would not be able to register in a state for an absentee ballot.

of course the usa recognizes dual citizenship. why do so many people believe they dont? i´m living proof for it. i´ve got an american and german passport. i´m citizen of germany and of the usa.
and i hope for democracy´s sake that a citizen of the usa must be allowed to vote in the usa.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-15 08:28pm

Captain Lennox wrote:Just a little history lesson the only time something like this happened was the slave wars in Kansas I forgot the offical name, blood everywhere sign of war too come. (The Civil War)

"Bleeding Kansas" was the name.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-10-15 08:29pm

salm wrote:
phongn wrote:AFAIK, the United States does not recognize dual citizenship (ie Germany will, but the US will not)?

EDIT: I'm wrong, they do recognize it.

As such, I'm pretty sure you can't vote, seeing as you would not be able to register in a state for an absentee ballot.
of course the usa recognizes dual citizenship. why do so many people believe they dont? i´m living proof for it. i´ve got an american and german passport. i´m citizen of germany and of the usa.
and i hope for democracy´s sake that a citizen of the usa must be allowed to vote in the usa.

No, dumbass your allowed only too enter the countrt. Need a thing called citizenship.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-10-15 08:32pm

IG-88E wrote:
Captain Lennox wrote:Just a little history lesson the only time something like this happened was the slave wars in Kansas I forgot the offical name, blood everywhere sign of war too come. (The Civil War)
"Bleeding Kansas" was the name.

Yeah, thanks. Twas a funny war.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-15 08:33pm

ok, nevermind the dual citizenship, the us probably doesnt even know nor care if i´ve got the german citizenship and vice versa.

what if an american is born in a foreign country and has never lived in the states?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-15 08:35pm

salm wrote: what if an american is born in a foreign country and has never lived in the states?

They're fucked.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-15 08:45pm

salm wrote:ok, nevermind the dual citizenship, the us probably doesnt even know nor care if i´ve got the german citizenship and vice versa.

what if an american is born in a foreign country and has never lived in the states?

Hrmm...

As I said earlier, contact the nearest US Consulate or Embassy and bring proof of citizenship. Ask about how you can vote. You have two years until the next presidential election, so you have time to figure this out. This is (as you noted) complicated by the Electoral College.

I assume that at least one parent is an American citizen. Likely you'll be registered in the state that your parents last resided in.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-10-15 08:46pm

salm wrote:ok, nevermind the dual citizenship, the us probably doesnt even know nor care if i´ve got the german citizenship and vice versa.

what if an american is born in a foreign country and has never lived in the states?

Then an American Citizen paying taxes too a country they didn't visit.

Mr. Mister · Post by **Mr. Mister** » 2002-10-15 08:48pm

From the frequently asked questions page on the Federal Voter Assitance Program website (www.fvap.gov):

OVERSEAS CITIZENS
If I do not maintain a legal residence in the U.S., what is my "legal state of residence?"

Your "legal state of residence" for voting purposes is the state or territory where you last resided immediately prior to your departure from the United States. This right extends to overseas citizens even though they may not have property or other ties in their last state or territory of residence and their intent to return to that state or territory may be uncertain. When completing the residence section of the FPCA, be sure to enter the entire mailing address of your last residence, including street or rural route and number. This information is necessary to place you in the proper voting district, ward, precinct or parish. Family members of citizens residing overseas, who are U.S. citizens and who have never resided in the U.S., usually, if the state allows, claim one of their U.S. citizen parent's legal state or territory of residence as their own. Check Chapter 3 of the Guide.

Dual citizenships exist between the U.S. and most other countries. Regarding them, from the U.S. Department of State (http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html):

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

The practice is discouraged, but perfectly legal.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-15 08:57pm

hey, thanks!

it´s discouraged by whom?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-15 09:00pm

I got quiet a few cousins who are both US and Canadian citizens because they live close enough to the border that its faster to head north for the hostpital to give birth then to go south.

Mr. Mister · Post by **Mr. Mister** » 2002-10-15 09:03pm

Governments discourage dual citizenship because it's a bureacratic hassle for them. Plus, it can cause you trouble if you have conflicting committments (say, you get drafted in one country while a court in another one's just sub-poenaed you to come testify against somebody).

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-15 09:06pm

it helps a lot actually. everytime my family and me go to the states my dad and me go through the short lines in germany for germans my mom has to wait in the foreigner line. then in the plane my dad has to fill out this idiotic piece of paper in which he´s asked if he plans to murder someone in the states if he plans to deal drugs in the state, plans any acts of terror (seriously, that´s what they ask). then at LAX my mom and me slip throug the short "americans only" line and wait half an hour for my dad.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-10-15 09:07pm

Mr. Mister wrote:Governments discourage dual citizenship because it's a bureacratic hassle for them. Plus, it can cause you trouble if you have conflicting committments (say, you get drafted in one country while a court in another one's just sub-poenaed you to come testify against somebody).

it´s a beurocratic hassle? i think they dont even notice that you´ve got dual citizenship.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-10-15 09:11pm

Didn't he just give you an example? "say, you get drafted in one country while a court in another one's just sub-poenaed you to come testify against somebody" How do they solve this dispute without having a bureaucratic hassle?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-15 10:37pm

phongn wrote:AFAIK, the United States does not recognize dual citizenship (ie Germany will, but the US will not)?

EDIT: I'm wrong, they do recognize it.

They don't *recognize* it everywhere, but that's due to ignorance, not because it isn't true. If you show up at any airport and show both passports they most likely will arrest you, question you and then apologize for being so stupid

(or pretend it never happened)

That thing about "renouncing any other allegiances" in the oath is pure BS. If an immigrant from say, Egypt, obtained citizenship to the US, then came back and told his former country that he "renounced" they will say just laugh at you and say "so you told some US people you 'renounced', lol, like we care about what you say to other governments".

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-15 10:39pm

Captain Lennox wrote:
salm wrote:
phongn wrote:AFAIK, the United States does not recognize dual citizenship (ie Germany will, but the US will not)?

EDIT: I'm wrong, they do recognize it.

As such, I'm pretty sure you can't vote, seeing as you would not be able to register in a state for an absentee ballot.
of course the usa recognizes dual citizenship. why do so many people believe they dont? i´m living proof for it. i´ve got an american and german passport. i´m citizen of germany and of the usa.
and i hope for democracy´s sake that a citizen of the usa must be allowed to vote in the usa.
No, dumbass your allowed only too enter the countrt. Need a thing called citizenship.

No, lazermoron, he has TWO PASSPORTS, not two entry visas.

Like, you don't get a US passport if you aren't a US citizen

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-15 10:43pm

salm wrote:ok, nevermind the dual citizenship, the us probably doesnt even know nor care if i´ve got the german citizenship and vice versa.

That's 100% correct. That "renouncing" crap in the immigration oath is BS. You don't lose German citizenship because the US "says so", and vice-versa. Just make sure you always use the same passport when going in and out of any country (if you travel to the US and they stamp your german passport, also use the german passport to travel back). You WILL get into trouble, but that's because government employees don't know where the fuck they're standing.

what if an american is born in a foreign country and has never lived in the states?

I don't know the exact policy of the US. For each country, citizenship depends whether you're born from that country's parents, in that country's soil, and some require BOTH. Either way you'd probably have to register at an embassy or consulate (maybe the same thing to vote).

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