Nightmare or the culture gets some new toys

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-07-16 02:44am

here is what may be the nastiest weapons the Culture could get Bolos for ground assault and Berserkers for space combat.yes the Beserkers are slow but they make there own supplies.Bolos are well huge tanks that fire bolts of anti protons at there targets ,last but not least both are AI designed to operate on there own Bolos even derive pleasure from exacuting there duties.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-07-16 03:00am

Kindly repost the above in English. Thanks.

Luke Hares · Post by **Luke Hares** » 2002-07-16 07:26am

That really was total gibberish...

GSV Use Psychology · Post by **GSV Use Psychology** » 2002-07-16 01:07pm

I thinks he's trying to say that the nastiest weapons the Culture could get would be Bolos for ground combat and Berserkers for space. Personally I've never heard of the Berserkers and disagree on the Bolos.

There is simply no need for large scale ground combat in the Cultureverse, since groundtroops would be cannonfodder for any spaceship, and those tasks that require some sort of groundforce are what combat drones are for. A huge lumbering tank like a Bolo would be useless.

Can't comment on the Berserkers, but Culture ships are already pretty uber so I don't know if they'd really be an improvement.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-07-16 01:24pm

GSV Use Psychology wrote:Can't comment on the Berserkers, but Culture ships are already pretty uber so I don't know if they'd really be an improvement.

I'm familiar with the Bezerkers. Anyone who suggests that they're superior to Culture ships is smoking something strong enough to be on the controlled substances list.

GSV Use Psychology · Post by **GSV Use Psychology** » 2002-07-16 01:30pm

Enlightenment wrote: I'm familiar with the Bezerkers. Anyone who suggests that they're superior to Culture ships is smoking something strong enough to be on the controlled substances list.

Somehow I figured this was the case since the Culture is rather high in the Uber-chart

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-07-17 01:55am

Sorry came up with the idea when I was half awake and if lagrge combat vehicles are useless thenwhy do the Imps have Walkers??? sides Bolos can hit targets in orbit not sure how well though .Beserkers are just plain out and out nasty .They were orrgionally created as weapons of mass destruction and sent out behind enemy line to devestae there plantes BDZ style ,yes these puppies BDZ planets they have no crew are commaneded by an AI computer and given time and resources self replicate and self repair.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-07-17 04:23am

Large combat vehicles are useless to the Culture because they can make a drone the size of a basketball that's more powerful than a Bolo. Just because they are useless to the Culture, does not mean that they are therefore useless to everyone.

Berzerkers can BDZ planets? ROUs can DESTROY planets. ROU's don't need crews (although they have them anyway, sometimes), are controlled by a Mind (the great-great-great-great-great grandkid of the first AIs), and can easily repair themselves. Militarized GSVs are even worse. They carry all the knowledge of the Culture, can build other ships, and can do anything an ROU can do.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2002-07-17 05:26am

Also, regarding Bolos being useless to the Culture due to small drones being able to do the same work, remember the following:

Bolos are not necessarily always the same size or shape. Bolo is merely the term for a particular large, cybernetic war machine capable of engaging entire conventional armies on its own. Late-model Bolos tend to change from enormous, lumbering battleships with tracks to compact war machines reminiscent of a large Culture drone crossed with a cybernetic US Marines Drill Instructor. Therefore, trying to add Bolos to the Culture arsenal is a bit like trying to add an assault rifle to the arsenal of the US Army.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2002-07-17 05:32am

The same point actually applies to Berserkers. Early models of Berserker are basically AI warships out to destroy all intelligent life, with particular attention paid to Homo Sapiens. Over time, the Berserkers develop compact remote units able to take on humans on a more personal level, and some late-model autonomous Berserker units are indistinguishable from humans, essentially becoming overpowered, murderous androids individually capable of threatening entire planetary populations.

GSV Use Psychology · Post by **GSV Use Psychology** » 2002-07-17 12:43pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Sorry came up with the idea when I was half awake and if lagrge combat vehicles are useless thenwhy do the Imps have Walkers??? sides Bolos can hit targets in orbit not sure how well though .Beserkers are just plain out and out nasty .They were orrgionally created as weapons of mass destruction and sent out behind enemy line to devestae there plantes BDZ style ,yes these puppies BDZ planets they have no crew are commaneded by an AI computer and given time and resources self replicate and self repair.

How familiar are you with the Culture? All they're ships are AI driven. Humans, or humanoids, have no control of the ship and are mearly passengers. Culture battles last mear seconds due to the reaction speed and weapons speed of an entirely AI controlled ship. Weapons consist mostly of different types of charges and bombs which are displaced (teleported) in the area of the enemy ship(s) in huge amounts. Combat can and does occur at ranges measured in light-years. Their weaponry is easily powerful enough to destroy planets and even suns can be provoked to go novae.

Take the Galactic Empire for example. A single Culture ship could destroy the entire Imperial fleet without them having a hope of even scratching its paintjob. They'd be dead before they realised they ever entered combat.

This is why large combat vehicles aren't used by the Culture. They'd be cannon fodder to any space ship.

Culture combat drones could be called miniature space ships. They can survive in space and even have a small warp engine for (likely limited) FTL travel. Like the ships they can repair themselves. They can move and fight at hypersonic speeds (hypersonic = over Mach 5 = ~1 mile per second). While I wouldn't equal one drone to a Bolo in a straight out fight a drone is better suited for the type of ground combat the Culture would encounter. Drones are well suited for close quarters fighting and precision work, while Bolos are essentially weapons of mass destruction.

A single drone could potentially kill every human on present-day Earth given enough time. No gun could harm it and it could dodge any large scale weapons deployed against it. I can't see anything short of a large scale nuke bombardment killing it, and even that might not work.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-17 12:51pm

GSV Use Psychology wrote: Culture battles last mear seconds due to the reaction speed and weapons speed of an entirely AI controlled ship.

You mean a few micro (or less even) seconds.

GSV Use Psychology · Post by **GSV Use Psychology** » 2002-07-17 12:58pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: You mean a few micro (or less even) seconds.

Well I was being generous

Also the battle in Consider Phlebas (militarised GCU against Idiran light-cruiser) did last for several seconds although the GCU was trying to capture it. And now that I think about it I'm not sure if the alarms sounded when they detected the GCU, ywhile it had not yet started firing. So yes, fractions of a second is more accurate.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-07-17 01:44pm

*is not familiar with culture* battles last microseconds huh? then they definatley aint makin a movie

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-07-18 01:34am

Thanks I`m not familliar with the Culture series it was just an idea

fgalkin2 · Post by **fgalkin2** » 2002-07-18 02:07am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:*is not familiar with culture* battles last microseconds huh? then they definatley aint makin a movie

Ever heard of Super Slo-Mo?

Luke Hares · Post by **Luke Hares** » 2002-07-18 09:49am

Microseconds is correct. The best description of ship to ship combat is in Excession, which features a culture warship (ROU or Rapid Offensive Unit) engaging a fleet of similar though smaller ROUs - for reasons I won't divulge or I'll spoil the plot. The attacker is looking for a particular enemy vessel it knows is a traitor (describing the ships as characters is entirely correct - they are beings in their own right) In the engagement several ships are destroyed or disabled, and the target is located and tortured before also being destroyed. The attacker then flees.

It all ends with the (approximate) killer quote...

"Total engage time, 6 microseconds, felt longer, but then it always did..."

You just can't compare Culture minds with anything that operates on a remotely human scale...