No more Super Size at McDonalds

[Tsyroc]

That's not necessarily a solution. When I was in school, there was one fat kid in my class (back then, it was typically just one; nowadays there are more). And he was simply exempted from gym activities that he couldn't handle, so while the rest of us would run 2 laps around the track to warm up, he would be allowed to run 50 yards and then stop.

When obesity is treated as a handicap, the teachers really have no choice but to allow such exceptions.

I don't remember any of my PE teachers letting anyone completely off for being fat. They at least had to be seen putting effort towards complete the task. I also seem to recall the same teachers ocassionally ragging on people for being fat or having a big butt. Mostly they would push people to put some effort into things.

Of course I was in school at about the same time as you were and all that PC garbage hadn't fully taken off yet.

[Joe]

You know, I was about ready to just be lazy and not go to the gym today, but this thread has inspired me to.

[Darth Wong]

I don't remember any of my PE teachers letting anyone completely off for being fat. They at least had to be seen putting effort towards complete the task.

Yup, just like mine. However, for this kid, 50 yards was at least as great an effort as two laps were for the rest of us. So as far as the teachers were concerned, he'd done his part. He'd also get away with just one partial situp, while the rest of us had to do 20 complete ones (elbows touch knees).

One can understand why he was exempted (he simply couldn't do it), but at the same time, it's pretty clear why the daily exercise regimen didn't help him.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

I brought a bag lunch to school every day consisting of a peanut butter sandwich on white bread and a pack of Ho Ho's every day from 7th to 12th grade; with chocolate milk 7-8, a soda in ninth, and tea 10-12 to drink. Occasionally I'd buy stuff like chicken nuggets or fries from the cafeteria, but that wasn't often.

I'd consider that rather safe.

If I ate crap like that every day, I'd be about 75 pounds overweight. But then, I have a slow metabolism for a twentysomething. On the other hand, as people age their metabolism slows down, and yours will eventually be as slow as mine is now. You don't want to be in the habit of still eating junk food when that happens.

[BoredShirtless]

Well OK, if that's no solution to child obesity, then what's the answer?

* Only healthy food in school canteens.

A lot of people bring their own food. Would you prohibit that?

Of course not. Ignoring the fact banning food from home is both impractical and unethical, kids who bring food from home mostly bring prepared lunches, which are much healthier then the rubbish I saw in my school canteen. It's the kids who have to buy lunch because Mum's getting ready for work, which have the problem.

* Make students run for 10-15 minutes before school ends. Every day.

The obese kids won't be able to handle it, and will ask to be exempted from this activity due to their handicap. The teachers will have no choice but to allow this.

How many 7 year olds are so obese that they can't run? Whatever the number, I think it would fall within an acceptable failure range. No solution will completely eliminate obesity.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I have a friend whom comes from Guernsey and has a fairly wealthy family. Now her parents aren't bad, but herself, well, put it this way, she actually has trouble getting into our flat as the doors impede her entry. She is obese to say the least. She does eat some healthy food, but mainly it's junk, she does no exercise whatsoever because it takes her 5 minutes to get up from a lying down position and she strained her ankle last summer and has been using that as an excuse for a year as to why she doesn't go out much. She even wants to move back onto campus only so she doesn't have to walk barely 50 metres to the bus stop.

It is people like her who, while personality wise are great, disgust me in their physical appearance. I realise if it is a genetic condition it is a life sentence, but she doesn't even attempt to help herself and her sister is coming along the same way. I have told her, repeatedly, that she will die a young and uncomfortable death alone if she doesn't buck up her ideas, but because I don't hold an MD, my advice is discarded.

It's a mental problem for most people I think and the sooner we can get them to realise that this stuff simply isn't healthy the better. Course there are those that know it's not healthy and do it out of laziness or apathy. We call those people idiots. You'd be amazed how many people I know in my biology class smoke still despite the numerous times it has been brought up along with graphic images showing what it does. Maybe they're masochists.

[BoredShirtless]

How many 7 year olds are so obese that they can't run? Whatever the number, I think it would fall within an acceptable failure range. No solution will completely eliminate obesity.

Oh yeah, and those older students who really are too obese; they can walk.

It's not a quick fix, but it'll instill good habits at grass roots.

[Darth Wong]

Re: Admiral Valdemar's story, that's different from my own experiences. For some reason, I've found that wealthy people (around here, at least) tend to be thinner than poorer people for some reason (I've always surmised that it's because they have more spare time and they're more concerned with appearances, so they exercise a lot; it could also be that my sample size is waaaaaay too small ).

[Admiral Valdemar]

Meh, I can't find a correlation and am by no means saying one class is one size and the other class is another. But it really irks me to see people abuse their body that way. It rubs the salt in the wound when they know it too.

"Hey, Russ, thought you gave up the fags?"
"Yeah, but I'm no good at New Years resolutions. Besides, it's only 10 a day."
"10 too many."

And he just shrugged. The week before I was praising the guy for giving up the habit now he chugs the things between lectures. He knows what they do and still he does it. At least this obese girl may have a hope one day if I can break that neutronium wall of ignorance/apathy she has.

Now imagine what a surgeon feels like when after giving a guy a heart bypass he sees him continue the same shit-in-shit out style of eating. It must make one lose faith in the species.

[Tsyroc]

Yup, just like mine. However, for this kid, 50 yards was at least as great an effort as two laps were for the rest of us. So as far as the teachers were concerned, he'd done his part. He'd also get away with just one partial situp, while the rest of us had to do 20 complete ones (elbows touch knees).

One can understand why he was exempted (he simply couldn't do it), but at the same time, it's pretty clear why the daily exercise regimen didn't help him.

Geez, someone should have made that kid at least walk the two laps unless there was some medical condition stopping him. Let him take as long as he wants but get him to do it.

Also it sounds like they needed to get that kid swimming.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yup, just like mine. However, for this kid, 50 yards was at least as great an effort as two laps were for the rest of us. So as far as the teachers were concerned, he'd done his part. He'd also get away with just one partial situp, while the rest of us had to do 20 complete ones (elbows touch knees).

One can understand why he was exempted (he simply couldn't do it), but at the same time, it's pretty clear why the daily exercise regimen didn't help him.

Geez, someone should have made that kid at least walk the two laps unless there was some medical condition stopping him. Let him take as long as he wants but get him to do it.

Also it sounds like they needed to get that kid swimming.

They may turn nasty if they go through too much. Pvt. Pyle being an extreme example.

"I am... in a world of... shit."

*Kid then hits the teacher with a tennis ball*

[Dalton]

I'm sorry Dalton, I thought it was kind of an amusing suggestion and wasn't thinking clearly.

Thank you.

However, I am constrained to point out that education is the current approach and it isn't working. You can tell kids to eat healthy all year long; that won't make them do it. It also won't make their parents buy them good food; I've seen some of the shit that some parents feed their kids.

All too true. I was quite thin when I was young, and only started gaining weight when I began elementary school.

[Robert Walper]

I'm sorry Dalton, I thought it was kind of an amusing suggestion and wasn't thinking clearly.

Thank you.

However, I am constrained to point out that education is the current approach and it isn't working. You can tell kids to eat healthy all year long; that won't make them do it. It also won't make their parents buy them good food; I've seen some of the shit that some parents feed their kids.

All too true. I was quite thin when I was young, and only started gaining weight when I began elementary school.

Surely there must be a practical solution that could be implemented within our society to address this problem?

[Admiral Valdemar]

All too true. I was quite thin when I was young, and only started gaining weight when I began elementary school.

I am the exact opposite. I was a pudgy baby and ate anything until I started getting older and thinner. We're on the same curve just different ends.

I'm actually sick of my thinness, but I can't put any weight on, metabolism burns too quick to gain a gram.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Surely there must be a practical solution that could be implemented within our society to address this problem?

Free liposuction?

[Gil Hamilton]

Here is how it was run at my school (and all of Pittsburgh Public, because it's the educational standard). All four years of high school there was a physical requirement. 45 minutes of gym a day, every day, all four years. You had to pass it our you didn't graduate.


The problem is that it did both jack and shit and not much else for the obesity problem.

For one thing, our gym teacher was a shit who didn't care, as far as he was concerned, kids could sit on the school bleachers or skip entirely, it didn't matter to him.

Secondly, the school required gym clothes (with is a good idea), but getting alot of the overweight kids to change was a trick. See, the moment any of them tried to change, it turned vicious against them, so alot of them didn't wouldn't do it just to avoid getting completely ragged on in the locker room. I don't know how it was in any other high school, but my gym class was filled with complete assholes who's idea of a good time in the locker room was steal the fat kids clothes and throw them into the hallway or rob them or even beat them up, on top of merely making fun of them. Unfortunately, the gym teacher was one of those people who figured that if the environment was bad enough for them, they'd make the effort to get thin to make it stop, completely ignoring human psychology on the matter, so he never made an effort to stop it. This added up to alot of kids simply refusing to change for class, and therefore they wouldn't do it. Same with swimming.

Thirdly, was the matter that Mike brought up. Assuming you could even get the kid to go through the locker room and take part in the activities (where 19/20th of the time said activities meant basketball) the teacher didn't want them to take part anyway, because they honestly couldn't keep up. He'd just tell them to sit on the bleachers and wait it out when they got tired and that would be that.

[Robert Walper]

All too true. I was quite thin when I was young, and only started gaining weight when I began elementary school.

I am the exact opposite. I was a pudgy baby and ate anything until I started getting older and thinner. We're on the same curve just different ends.

I'm actually sick of my thinness, but I can't put any weight on, metabolism burns too quick to gain a gram.

Your metabolism is an enviable trait for overweight people. If this is genetic, couldn't genetic engineering be a possible solution?

[Admiral Valdemar]

All too true. I was quite thin when I was young, and only started gaining weight when I began elementary school.

I am the exact opposite. I was a pudgy baby and ate anything until I started getting older and thinner. We're on the same curve just different ends.

I'm actually sick of my thinness, but I can't put any weight on, metabolism burns too quick to gain a gram.

Your metabolism is an enviable trait for overweight people. If this is genetic, couldn't genetic engineering be a possible solution?

It likely is genetic. My father has a good physique too, but then he also eats healthy, exercises and doesn't overdo the booze or smoke. I am really around average weight for my height and age, my brother is a better specimen (maybe too perfect for my tastes). But maybe the gene/s that cause such obesity can be mapped and altered through gene therapy, who knows?

I think it's best to start with the people and educating them at an early age. The obese population has exploded recently in the West thanks to luscious lifestyles and more food choice (most of it bad, and with fads like Atkins, confusion occurs).

You know, Cadbury's had a good scheme going. As part of a campaign to get more sports equipment in schools (and since they were being attacked along with McDonalds) they had all their chocolate and soft-drink wrappers have coupons for new sports equipment for schools. The downside was you had to eat your way through a ton of fatty chocolate and carbonated beverages to get this stuff. Kinda defeats the point, no?

[BoredShirtless]

Well OK, if that's no solution to child obesity, then what's the answer?

* Only healthy food in school canteens.
* Make students run for 10-15 minutes before school ends. Every day.

How easy is that?

Great on paper, but getting it to work is a bitch. There are programmes being used in schools to get kids to eat from a healthier school meals menu and more sports both in school hours and after hours.

The trick is, you have to make them run during hours, every day. And if you slowly phase out junk from canteens, I'd bet both my balls that obesity levels would fall. Running is the ultimate calorie burner. How can this plan fail? Answer: it can't. It just needs to be implemented. And for that, the right politicians need to force the issue.

Potential problem: Healthy food is dearer. Schools may not be able to afford it.
Possible solution: Government pays the difference, so schools end up paying the same for healthy food as they did for junk.

Potential problem: Supply of healthy food can't meet demand.
Possible solution: Government benefits for businesses who supply healthy food to school canteens. This would inspire businesses to direct more energy to supplying their products to school canteens. I think.

How much money does obesity related illnesses cost our governments each year? Lots. Is obesity getting worse? Yes. It's time to take the gloves off and supplement education with "old school" methods.

[Darth Wong]

The trick is, you have to make them run during hours, every day. And if you slowly phase out junk from canteens, I'd bet both my balls that obesity levels would fall. Running is the ultimate calorie burner. How can this plan fail? Answer: it can't. It just needs to be implemented. And for that, the right politicians need to force the issue.

How? By forcing kids to run even if they refuse and say they have a "health condition" (ie- obesity) that prevents them from doing so? Try it in America and you'll probably find a subpoena on your doorstep before you can say "litigation".

Potential problem: Healthy food is dearer. Schools may not be able to afford it.
Possible solution: Government pays the difference, so schools end up paying the same for healthy food as they did for junk.

I suspect that the majority of American voters won't pay more taxes just to promote healthy lifestyles. The minute you talk about something like this, some conservative will grumble about "social engineering" and "paternalistic government" and your support will evapourate. They will only unhesitatingly support higher taxes for blowing up other countries or promoting "Christian values".

Potential problem: Supply of healthy food can't meet demand.
Possible solution: Government benefits for businesses who supply healthy food to school canteens. This would inspire businesses to direct more energy to supplying their products to school canteens. I think.

See above.

How much money does obesity related illnesses cost our governments each year? Lots. Is obesity getting worse? Yes. It's time to take the gloves off and supplement education with "old school" methods.

First you have to get past the conservatives and their "government should not interfere in social issues or act paternalistically except to promote Christian values" agenda.

[BoredShirtless]

Here is how it was run at my school (and all of Pittsburgh Public, because it's the educational standard). All four years of high school there was a physical requirement. 45 minutes of gym a day, every day, all four years. You had to pass it our you didn't graduate.


The problem is that it did both jack and shit and not much else for the obesity problem.

For one thing, our gym teacher was a shit who didn't care, as far as he was concerned, kids could sit on the school bleachers or skip entirely, it didn't matter to him.

Secondly, the school required gym clothes (with is a good idea), but getting alot of the overweight kids to change was a trick. See, the moment any of them tried to change, it turned vicious against them, so alot of them didn't wouldn't do it just to avoid getting completely ragged on in the locker room. I don't know how it was in any other high school, but my gym class was filled with complete assholes who's idea of a good time in the locker room was steal the fat kids clothes and throw them into the hallway or rob them or even beat them up, on top of merely making fun of them. Unfortunately, the gym teacher was one of those people who figured that if the environment was bad enough for them, they'd make the effort to get thin to make it stop, completely ignoring human psychology on the matter, so he never made an effort to stop it. This added up to alot of kids simply refusing to change for class, and therefore they wouldn't do it. Same with swimming.

Thirdly, was the matter that Mike brought up. Assuming you could even get the kid to go through the locker room and take part in the activities (where 19/20th of the time said activities meant basketball) the teacher didn't want them to take part anyway, because they honestly couldn't keep up. He'd just tell them to sit on the bleachers and wait it out when they got tired and that would be that.

Your PE teacher and maybe the course syllabus was the problem. How can kids from your school pass PE by loafing around? Clearly, your teacher and school never took it seriously.

[The Third Man]

Anyone from the UK remember that public information TV ad? I found it pretty powerful, the one where the overweight father is talking with his ~5 yo. daughter about her drawing? "There's mummy. And what's this balloon? Oh. That's Daddy. Oooerr."

Also see the Fray Bentos ad. (I'd be really grateful if anyone could point me to an mpeg/mov version.)

[Tsyroc]

There was one that I saw where the little kid is looking at his mommy (who's pregnant) and then looks at his dad's gut and asks, "when is daddy going to have a baby?"

[BoredShirtless]

The trick is, you have to make them run during hours, every day. And if you slowly phase out junk from canteens, I'd bet both my balls that obesity levels would fall. Running is the ultimate calorie burner. How can this plan fail? Answer: it can't. It just needs to be implemented. And for that, the right politicians need to force the issue.

How? By forcing kids to run even if they refuse and say they have a "health condition" (ie- obesity) that prevents them from doing so? Try it in America and you'll probably find a subpoena on your doorstep before you can say "litigation".

For kids who can't run [doctors certificate required], they'll should walk the same distance. A person burns about the same amount of calories walking x metres as they do running x metres, though running raises the metabolism more afterwards. Meaning, you burn more calories after a run then you do after a walk.

Potential problem: Healthy food is dearer. Schools may not be able to afford it.
Possible solution: Government pays the difference, so schools end up paying the same for healthy food as they did for junk.

I suspect that the majority of American voters won't pay more taxes just to promote healthy lifestyles. The minute you talk about something like this, some conservative will grumble about "social engineering" and "paternalistic government" and your support will evapourate. They will only unhesitatingly support higher taxes for blowing up other countries or promoting "Christian values".

The aim isn't contentious and is belief independent, unlike issues like the Iraq war or gay marriage; everyone wants to see their children healthy. Keeping that in mind, plus if they can fund this idea without raising taxes, people would support it IMO. There will always be morons who grumble "social engineering" and "paternalistic government", but I'm sure they'd fall on deaf ears.

So the big challenge is to trim money here and there from less important things, like the Space Program.

How much money does obesity related illnesses cost our governments each year? Lots. Is obesity getting worse? Yes. It's time to take the gloves off and supplement education with "old school" methods.

First you have to get past the conservatives and their "government should not interfere in social issues or act paternalistically except to promote Christian values" agenda.

See above.

[Alan Bolte]

Someone needs to remind the Christians that gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. That ought to do it.