Well then that doesn't fit the definition of "not disturbing anyone," now does it? That being the case, the flagpole prayer meetings are obviously not what the question's asking about and is therefore an invalid objection.GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Simple, you have an obvious group of people who are obviously using school grounds and school time to conduct their religious business. And if the morning prayer at the flagpole is anything like what I saw back when I was in high school a quarter of a lifetime ago, the groups who sponsor these events go out of their way to actively encourage other students to attend these events (either in person, or through the daily school announcements.) Hence, it is disruptive.Semage wrote:How is that disruptive?Lazy Raptor wrote: Non-disruptive is not the same thing as undetectable. The point is school property is not a place for organized worship. No one's stopping kids from praying silently at lunch, recess or study hall. But this "gather at the flagpole" nonsense has got to stop.
Psychology questionnaire: God in school.
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Rogue 9
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Re: Psychology questionnaire: God in school.
Age:19
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God? No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? Scientific pantheist.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? No.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? No. Schools shouldn't "support" religions. Religions are private matters.
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? I'm not sure what you're asking, so i'm going to say "no."
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?I have no idea what the FCA is.
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Yes.
8 ) If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? Yes.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Probably, but they'd be at penalty of losing their job for teaching the subject matter in that way.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?Yes.
11) Why or why not? Education of other people's religions/cultures is a good thing, encourages understanding and informs people.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?Yes.
13) Why or why not? Well, RE is a required subject over here, or at least was in my school. I found it most interesting.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? Er..yes?
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? No.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Yes.
17) What about witnessing to people?No. Unless you'd be open to satanic black masses being performed on school grounds too.
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God? No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? Scientific pantheist.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? No.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? No. Schools shouldn't "support" religions. Religions are private matters.
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? I'm not sure what you're asking, so i'm going to say "no."
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?I have no idea what the FCA is.
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Yes.
8 ) If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? Yes.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Probably, but they'd be at penalty of losing their job for teaching the subject matter in that way.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?Yes.
11) Why or why not? Education of other people's religions/cultures is a good thing, encourages understanding and informs people.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?Yes.
13) Why or why not? Well, RE is a required subject over here, or at least was in my school. I found it most interesting.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? Er..yes?
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? No.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Yes.
17) What about witnessing to people?No. Unless you'd be open to satanic black masses being performed on school grounds too.
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1) Do you believe in God? No.
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? Athiest.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? Yes.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? No.
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow? Moot.
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Yes.
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? Yes.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Yes.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this? Yes.
11) Why or why not? So they can see how millions of people have had faith in thousands of different gods. And that all of their faith was totally meingless.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course? Yes.
13) Why or why not? Learning never hurts.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? As opposed to what?
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? No.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Yes.
17) What about witnessing to people? No.
Sex:
1) Do you believe in God? No.
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? Athiest.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? Yes.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? No.
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow? Moot.
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Yes.
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? Yes.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Yes.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this? Yes.
11) Why or why not? So they can see how millions of people have had faith in thousands of different gods. And that all of their faith was totally meingless.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course? Yes.
13) Why or why not? Learning never hurts.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? As opposed to what?
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? No.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Yes.
17) What about witnessing to people? No.
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Darth Raptor
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Every one of those at my school was completely innocuous. That's not the point. And I never said they were disruptive. The questionaire was loaded and the wording deliberately vague. What does he mean by "prayer" and what does he mean by "not bothering anyone"? I'm not bothered when a Muslim kisses the ground. He can suck sand all day for all I care. But unless he was really talking about your invisable "stealth prayer" the fact stands that it is a misuse of school property. Schools are a secular educational institution of the secular government. Not a temple, church or shrine.Rogue 9 wrote:Well then that doesn't fit the definition of "not disturbing anyone," now does it? That being the case, the flagpole prayer meetings are obviously not what the question's asking about and is therefore an invalid objection.
Re: Psychology questionnaire: God in school.
Age:16
Sex:Male
1) Do you believe in God?
No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Atheist
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
No
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
No
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
Yes
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
Yes
11) Why or why not?
Because even if I don't believe in something it is helpful to know the views of others and appemt to know how they will react.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
Yes
13) Why or why not?
, on the condition that it was taught with the intention to educate about different religions, and not to be a thinly veiled class about Christianity. Also that the instructor themself was not heavily biased towards or against any religion
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yes
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No, anyone who thinks this is either just dumb or really, really high
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Yes
17) What about witnessing to people?
No
Sex:Male
1) Do you believe in God?
No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Atheist
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
No
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
No
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
Yes
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
Yes
11) Why or why not?
Because even if I don't believe in something it is helpful to know the views of others and appemt to know how they will react.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
Yes
13) Why or why not?
, on the condition that it was taught with the intention to educate about different religions, and not to be a thinly veiled class about Christianity. Also that the instructor themself was not heavily biased towards or against any religion
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yes
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No, anyone who thinks this is either just dumb or really, really high
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Yes
17) What about witnessing to people?
No
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Alyrium Denryle
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Age: 17
Sex: male
Sex: male
No1) Do you believe in God?
Atheist2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Yes, they prop up christianity. However, they arent legally supposed to.3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
No, see question 54) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
No5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
Not on campus6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
Yes, so long as it is comparative religion7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
NoIf yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
Yes9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
So that they know why religion is bullshit.11) Why or why not?
Yes12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
Because the debates would be excellent.13) Why or why not?
Yes... but religon is not historically accurate.14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
No, if anything it would increase15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
Yes16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Yes, so long as they dont get bitchy and defensive when the person doesnt follow like a sheep.17) What about witnessing to people?
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Slayen
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Re: Psychology questionnaire: God in school.
Age: 19
Sex: Male
1) Do you believe in God?
No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Deism
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
Seems that way sometimes so, Yes
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
I don't think they should support religions period so, No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
N/A
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
Sure
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Not neccesarily, so, No
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
If its an unbiased course that covers more then the big 3 (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), Yes
11) Why or why not?
So long as it fits the above, cant see any reason why not.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
I am already taking a class on religion, so sure.
13) Why or why not?
See above.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
N/A
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
Not likely
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
If they are just doing it privatly by themselves such as during lunch or before a test, then sure.
17) What about witnessing to people?
N/A
Sex: Male
1) Do you believe in God?
No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Deism
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
Seems that way sometimes so, Yes
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
I don't think they should support religions period so, No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
N/A
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
Sure
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Not neccesarily, so, No
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
If its an unbiased course that covers more then the big 3 (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), Yes
11) Why or why not?
So long as it fits the above, cant see any reason why not.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
I am already taking a class on religion, so sure.
13) Why or why not?
See above.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
N/A
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
Not likely
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
If they are just doing it privatly by themselves such as during lunch or before a test, then sure.
17) What about witnessing to people?
N/A
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Gandalf
- SD.net White Wizard
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Age: 18
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God? Nah
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? Atheism
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? Many do
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? If they have to support religions, then yes
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?Not in any major capacity
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow? Sorry I odn't know what the FCA is
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Offered, yes
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this? Yes
11) Why or why not? Becasue religion is a part of modern society, and worth study
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course? Yes
13) Why or why not? I find religion interesting
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? I would.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? Nope
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Yes
17) What about witnessing to people? Again I don't understand the term
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God? Nah
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? Atheism
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? Many do
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? If they have to support religions, then yes
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?Not in any major capacity
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow? Sorry I odn't know what the FCA is
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Offered, yes
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this? Yes
11) Why or why not? Becasue religion is a part of modern society, and worth study
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course? Yes
13) Why or why not? I find religion interesting
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? I would.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? Nope
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Yes
17) What about witnessing to people? Again I don't understand the term
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Durandal
- Bile-Driven Hate Machine
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You're missing the point, as usual. The point is that schools are not a place for organized religious worship. They are state properties. They have these things called "churches" for organized prayer and worship. Perhaps you've heard of them; there's one of a different denomination on every god damn block.Rogue 9 wrote:Well then that doesn't fit the definition of "not disturbing anyone," now does it? That being the case, the flagpole prayer meetings are obviously not what the question's asking about and is therefore an invalid objection.
No one is stopping a single student from praying at lunch or before a test, but collective, organized religious services are unacceptable.
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Rogue 9
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I know that and agree with you, which you seemed to miss. I'm saying that several people said that no, students should be disallowed from prayer in school. My point is how the hell does anyone intend to stop them? I could be praying and you'd never know it; its not like you have to fall on your knees with folded hands. I'll grant that the question is way too broad, but so are some of the answers. I hope that made my position clearer. I do not support open prayer groups for all the school to see; that's just unnecessary.
Agreed in every particular. Can we let it go now?No one is stopping a single student from praying at lunch or before a test, but collective, organized religious services are unacceptable.
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Rogue 9
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Advocating? What the hell? *Rereads.* I don't remember saying that.Durandal wrote:Please explain why you were advocating "gathering at the flag pole" if you agree with me.
Okay, I said that if the flagpole meetings were disturbing people, then the question's not about them because the question asked about non-disruptive prayer. I would assume that it presupposes that disruptive prayer would be dealt with in the same manner as any other disruption and be banned already. I fail to see how that is advocating it. You misinterpreted what I said, and I admit the wording could have been more clear. Now can we drop it?
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First, let me say that this is not my questionnaire.
Second.
What I say, from here on, is not necessarily what she meant by what she said, but how I read it when I took the survey.
Second.
Or that they did not read my, and Allie’s directions and my tip.Slartibartfast wrote:If most people have something like that (specially if it's the same questions) it's indicative that the questions are loaded.
What I say, from here on, is not necessarily what she meant by what she said, but how I read it when I took the survey.
“School” is a very general word. This means all schools. Do all schools only support Christianity? Some Christian schools do, as will as some universities. Yes, even some public schools. However, there are some which do not. Thus, the statement that schools only support Christianity is not true in all cases. So the answer is “no”.Slartibartfast wrote: 3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
Here, you don't specify what kind of school. You're obviously asking about public schools (not Christian schools), therefore "If you mean public schools, then yes" is a valid answer to your ambiguous question.
Then the question assumes schools support Christianity, regardless of your answer to 3. So answer the question as if they do.Slartibartfast wrote: 4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
This implies that Christianity is exempt of this. Note that in question 3 you didn't ask "SHOULD", you're asking if they're currently doing this.
It means “Have religion”. Should she have listed everything which falls under the heading “religion”? That would take days. It is meant to be vague.Slartibartfast wrote: 5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
"Have religion" is a vague question. Does this mean Christian symbols, people with religious beliefs, a church, religion classes, preaching, what?
Right. And again, that is how it is meant to be.Slartibartfast wrote: 7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
"Class on religions" is vague. It could refer to a theological class - one which discusses what the religions ARE. Or it could refer to indoctrination lessons: classes that teach you to BE a Christian, or a Islamic (sp), or Greek Orthodox, or Buddhist
HAHA! It’s kind of funny you say that. She and I have this inside joke about that very subject.Slartibartfast wrote:Transexual Satan.
If the answer is “depends on the teacher”, then the teacher is not biased in all cases, thus the answer is no.Slartibartfast wrote: 9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
You aren't giving us details of the teacher, but expect us to know if he will be biased. The most generous answers are "depends on the teacher" (we all know the truth tho if the teacher is a Christian and has to teach Christianity along with other religions)
Heh. She’ll love that one.Slartibartfast wrote: 10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
Only a nitpick, parents don't have "students".
It says nothing about the religion being historically correct. It says if the teachings were historically correct.Slartibartfast wrote: 14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
How can a religion be "historically correct"? A religion by definition is based on myth. Are you saying whether it's historically correct that the Spanish Inquisition killed a lot of people in the name of christianity, or that Jesus actually existed or if Zeus and Odin and God are really gods. The question is ambiguous again.
It implies that religion was once part of school and has been removed.Slartibartfast wrote: 15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
"Kept" implies that religion has been a part of school all along and people are trying to remove it.
Actually, she meant “religion”Darth Wong wrote:
It is clearly implied that by "religion", the people writing the survey really mean "Christianity", as opposed to Scientology, Satanism, Japanese doomsday cults, Jedi, or humanism.
Actually, most of the Christians who took it interpreted “religion” as “religion”. As far as I have seen, “religion” (in this case) has not been interpreted as “Christianity” but by you guys.Darth Wong wrote:
It is almost certain that any Christian taking the survey will interpret these questions thusly.
Like I said, there is no inherent connection.Darth Wong wrote:
However, this obvious connection is not made clear in the question. The questions are therefore quite misleading, and their conclusions quite misleading, because you don't actually know for sure how someone is interpreting it. A typical Christian might think "yes, it's OK to witness to people" while simultaneously becoming furious if he discovered that Satanists were aggressively trying to convert students at his child's school.
So visible means disruptive? Or am I inferring the wrong thing, here?GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
Simple, you have an obvious group of people who are obviously using school grounds and school time to conduct their religious business. And if the morning prayer at the flagpole is anything like what I saw back when I was in high school a quarter of a lifetime ago, the groups who sponsor these events go out of their way to actively encourage other students to attend these events (either in person, or through the daily school announcements.) Hence, it is disruptive.
Like the waves on the sea
Were the battles
Until crashing at once
As the great beginning
One mass of order
Turned instantly
To chaos.
And now
[url=http://_semage.livejournal.com]The Reconstruction.[/url]
Were the battles
Until crashing at once
As the great beginning
One mass of order
Turned instantly
To chaos.
And now
[url=http://_semage.livejournal.com]The Reconstruction.[/url]
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Darth Wong
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So Satanism, Scientology, and Japanese doomsday cults are all included?Semage wrote:Actually, she meant “religion”Darth Wong wrote:It is clearly implied that by "religion", the people writing the survey really mean "Christianity", as opposed to Scientology, Satanism, Japanese doomsday cults, Jedi, or humanism.
How do you know? Did you interview them all and ask them whether their answers were meant to apply equally regardless of which religion was being discussed, even if it was Satanism or Japanese doomsday cults? You didn't even bother asking the people who answered this thread how they interpreted it before speaking on their behalf! I smell the overwhelming stench of bullshit from you.Actually, most of the Christians who took it interpreted “religion” as “religion”. As far as I have seen, “religion” (in this case) has not been interpreted as “Christianity” but by you guys.Darth Wong wrote:It is almost certain that any Christian taking the survey will interpret these questions thusly.
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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Faram
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- Posts: 5271
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Age: 34
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God?
No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
None
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
No
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
No
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
No
11) Why or why not?
Religion is not something that shool should teatch children, that is the parents domain.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
No
13) Why or why not?
I don't belive in any god so any course in religion would be a waste of time for me.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yes, I am intrested in history.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
No
17) What about witnessing to people?
Not in shool. The shool is for learning not to advance some religious agenda.
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God?
No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
None
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
No
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
No
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
No
11) Why or why not?
Religion is not something that shool should teatch children, that is the parents domain.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
No
13) Why or why not?
I don't belive in any god so any course in religion would be a waste of time for me.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yes, I am intrested in history.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
No
17) What about witnessing to people?
Not in shool. The shool is for learning not to advance some religious agenda.
[img=right]http://hem.bredband.net/b217293/warsaban.gif[/img]
"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus
Fear is the mother of all gods.
Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius
"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus
Fear is the mother of all gods.
Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius
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Keevan_Colton
- Emperor's Hand
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- Contact:
That doesnt invalidate the point of loaded questions. They are too vague with too many unknowns for them to be of any use whatsoever save in validating whatever the conclusion the creator of the survey had in the first place.Semage wrote:Or that they did not read my, and Allie?s directions and my tip.
What I say, from here on, is not necessarily what she meant by what she said, but how I read it when I took the survey.
And thus completely fucking meaningless as a survey, it can only be used to validate a predetermined position rather than providing any real information thanks to it's totally stupid nature.It means ?Have religion?. Should she have listed everything which falls under the heading ?religion?? That would take days. It is meant to be vague.
Again, that makes it totally fucking useless to do anything but validate a predetermined answer.7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
Right. And again, that is how it is meant to be.
Bullfucking shit. Yet again, a pointless question as it offers no actual information.Slartibartfast wrote: 9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
If the answer is ?depends on the teacher?, then the teacher is not biased in all cases, thus the answer is no.
The teachings about the religions being historically correct and not myth would mean that they would have to throw out all the myths that make religions "religions" rather than history....so, you've got yourself another bullshit question.It says nothing about the religion being historically correct. It says if the teachings were historically correct.Slartibartfast wrote: 14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
How can a religion be "historically correct"? A religion by definition is based on myth. Are you saying whether it's historically correct that the Spanish Inquisition killed a lot of people in the name of christianity, or that Jesus actually existed or if Zeus and Odin and God are really gods. The question is ambiguous again.
It's also, bullshit...that is not something a survey really has anything to do with. Its like asking "Purple would reduce drug usage?" Yet again it can serve only to validate a predetermined set of results coined by the creator of the survey, which the "kept" part shows to be very much the case.It implies that religion was once part of school and has been removed.Slartibartfast wrote: 15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
"Kept" implies that religion has been a part of school all along and people are trying to remove it.
I'm sure she did, but for christians, religion does mean christianity till someone points out differently.Actually, she meant ?religion?Darth Wong wrote:
It is clearly implied that by "religion", the people writing the survey really mean "Christianity", as opposed to Scientology, Satanism, Japanese doomsday cults, Jedi, or humanism.
So, they were all for Satanism in schools? Excellent.Actually, most of the Christians who took it interpreted ?religion? as ?religion?. As far as I have seen, ?religion? (in this case) has not been interpreted as ?Christianity? but by you guys.Darth Wong wrote:
It is almost certain that any Christian taking the survey will interpret these questions thusly.
Oh, and see just above.
Yes there is, you just need to see the refrences to christianity at the start and realize it is aiming at validating a christian position based upon the completely vague questions that can be interpreted in so many ways a Yes/No answer is less than meaningless.Like I said, there is no inherent connection.Darth Wong wrote:
However, this obvious connection is not made clear in the question. The questions are therefore quite misleading, and their conclusions quite misleading, because you don't actually know for sure how someone is interpreting it. A typical Christian might think "yes, it's OK to witness to people" while simultaneously becoming furious if he discovered that Satanists were aggressively trying to convert students at his child's school.
It can.So visible means disruptive? Or am I inferring the wrong thing, here?GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: Simple, you have an obvious group of people who are obviously using school grounds and school time to conduct their religious business. And if the morning prayer at the flagpole is anything like what I saw back when I was in high school a quarter of a lifetime ago, the groups who sponsor these events go out of their way to actively encourage other students to attend these events (either in person, or through the daily school announcements.) Hence, it is disruptive.
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"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
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"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
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2000AD
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 6666
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Re: Psychology questionnaire: God in school.
Age:19
Sex:Male
1) Do you believe in God?
Nope
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Atheist
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
Nope (at least in the UK)
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
See below
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
Nope
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
NA
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
NA
8 ) If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
NA
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
Yes
11) Why or why not?
If they want to study religions i don't think i have a right to stop them even if i think it's a pile of bollocks
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
Nope
13) Why or why not?
Rather take something that i like and would actually come in useful for getting a job.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Nope
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
Violence: no
Drugs: Yes / maybe
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Nope.
If it's against school rules, it's against the rules. The people who go behind the bike sheds / gym / <whatever> to smoke aren't bothering anyone but themselves but they'll still get told off if they're caught as they are breaking (most) school rules.
17) What about witnessing to people?
I don't know what this si, but going by some of the posts it appears to be trying to convert someone to your religion. IMO this is a definate no, especially if the "no religion" rule from the previous question applies.
Sex:Male
1) Do you believe in God?
Nope
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Atheist
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
Nope (at least in the UK)
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
See below
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
Nope
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
NA
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
NA
8 ) If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
NA
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
Yes
11) Why or why not?
If they want to study religions i don't think i have a right to stop them even if i think it's a pile of bollocks
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
Nope
13) Why or why not?
Rather take something that i like and would actually come in useful for getting a job.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Nope
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
Violence: no
Drugs: Yes / maybe
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Nope.
If it's against school rules, it's against the rules. The people who go behind the bike sheds / gym / <whatever> to smoke aren't bothering anyone but themselves but they'll still get told off if they're caught as they are breaking (most) school rules.
17) What about witnessing to people?
I don't know what this si, but going by some of the posts it appears to be trying to convert someone to your religion. IMO this is a definate no, especially if the "no religion" rule from the previous question applies.
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Rogue 9
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Okay, a lot of people seem to be missing this, so I'll explain. On the last one, "witnessing" in this sense = proselytizing, or attempting to convert others to your faith. The word witnessing is usually used in this manner by Jehovah's Witnesses (thus the name) and Southern Baptists. Just so its clear to everyone.
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Shroom Man 777
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Re: Psychology questionnaire: God in school.
Age: 14
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God?
Yes
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
OOGABOOGA!!!
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
No.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
GUMMY BEARZ!!!
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
Yeah....whatever
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
No.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
Yes.
11) Why or why not?
Because he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
Yes. Since I want to be a good Christian although not an evil hatemongering one.
13) Why or why not?
Since I want to be a good Christian although not an evil hatemongering one.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yeah.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Yeah.
17) What about witnessing to people?
Huh? Umm...I guess that's okay. pssst....Billy Joe Jim-Bob, what the dang hell is witnessing to people?
Sex: M
1) Do you believe in God?
Yes
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
OOGABOOGA!!!
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
No.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
GUMMY BEARZ!!!
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
Yeah....whatever
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?No.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Yes.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
Yes.
11) Why or why not?
Because he can do whatever the fuck he wants.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
Yes. Since I want to be a good Christian although not an evil hatemongering one.
13) Why or why not?
Since I want to be a good Christian although not an evil hatemongering one.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yeah.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Yeah.
17) What about witnessing to people?
Huh? Umm...I guess that's okay. pssst....Billy Joe Jim-Bob, what the dang hell is witnessing to people?
Age: 23
Sex: F
1) Do you believe in God? no
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? strgon athiest
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? no
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? yes
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? yes. Let me explain. I believe that students should be taught about religion, and not restricted from following it. there should be no offical endorsement of religion.
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?yes if the students run it themselves
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?yes
8 )If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? no
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?no not necessarily
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?yes
11) Why or why not?because understanding the others point of view is vital
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?no
13) Why or why not?I have other academic priorities
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? no
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?no
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?yes
17) What about witnessing to people?yes as long as it's students, and not endorsed.
Sex: F
1) Do you believe in God? no
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? strgon athiest
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? no
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? yes
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? yes. Let me explain. I believe that students should be taught about religion, and not restricted from following it. there should be no offical endorsement of religion.
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?yes if the students run it themselves
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?yes
8 )If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? no
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?no not necessarily
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?yes
11) Why or why not?because understanding the others point of view is vital
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?no
13) Why or why not?I have other academic priorities
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct? no
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?no
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?yes
17) What about witnessing to people?yes as long as it's students, and not endorsed.
"I fight with love, and I laugh with rage, you gotta live light enough to see the humour and long enough to see some change" - Ani DiFranco, Pick Yer Nose
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
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Rogue 9
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pssst....Billy Joe Jim-Bob, what the dang hell is witnessing to people?
Look at the post right above yours.It's Rogue, not Rouge!
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Slartibartfast
- Emperor's Hand
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Then assume when I say "you" I mean the author of the questionnaire.Semage wrote:First, let me say that this is not my questionnaire.
The directions are very nice, but then the questionnaire goes out of its way to ask questions vague enough so that people aren't comfortable replying "no" or "yes" to an ambiguous question. Is this a poll or a set theory test?Or that they did not read my, and Allie’s directions and my tip.Slartibartfast wrote:If most people have something like that (specially if it's the same questions) it's indicative that the questions are loaded.
What I say, from here on, is not necessarily what she meant by what she said, but how I read it when I took the survey.
The problem with this survey is clear enough now: it's not an opinion survey (like most people would be led to believe), it's some sort of clever "test" to see how people answer to loaded questions. Sure, you said it was a "psychology survey" but it still looks like a damn poll. You should correct that.“School” is a very general word. This means all schools. Do all schools only support Christianity? Some Christian schools do, as will as some universities. Yes, even some public schools. However, there are some which do not. Thus, the statement that schools only support Christianity is not true in all cases. So the answer is “no”.Slartibartfast wrote: 3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
Here, you don't specify what kind of school. You're obviously asking about public schools (not Christian schools), therefore "If you mean public schools, then yes" is a valid answer to your ambiguous question.
Not an inside joke per se, it's a reference to The Naked Gun.HAHA! It’s kind of funny you say that. She and I have this inside joke about that very subject.Slartibartfast wrote:Transexual Satan.
... other quotes snipped, as this is obviously not an opinion poll.
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GoldenFalcon
- Jedi Knight
- Posts: 551
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- Location: Busy practicing with a bokken, come near me and I'll whack you with it.
Age: 17
Sex: Male
1) Do you believe in God?
No.
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Lack thereof/Atheism.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
In some cases...sadly yes. But in many, I'd say no.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
Most definitely, it's never good to discriminate.
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No, mainly because even if all religions were taught one would somehow manage to become dominant.
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
Hmm, yes. More diversity in choices = better.
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
As long as it doesn't become a "MINE IS BETTER!" fest, then yes.
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class?
No, religion is not like Math and English; not required for everyday life.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Varies with instructors, but I'm sure that there are many that are completely objective about that stuff.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
It's up to them, yes.
11) Why or why not?
Because I don't see a good reason as to why not.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
If I had an interest in the workings of some form of religion, yes.
13) Why or why not?
Already mentioned.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yep.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No, I highly doubt it. As long as the students inside such a school don't start mini holy wars, then it's safe.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Yeah it's alright, up to them to pray.
17) What about witnessing to people?
Witnessing people pray doesn't change much, if you are bothered by praying then it's up to you to watch it being done or not.
Sex: Male
1) Do you believe in God?
No.
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow?
Lack thereof/Atheism.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity?
In some cases...sadly yes. But in many, I'd say no.
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too?
Most definitely, it's never good to discriminate.
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school?
No, mainly because even if all religions were taught one would somehow manage to become dominant.
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow?
Hmm, yes. More diversity in choices = better.
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School?
As long as it doesn't become a "MINE IS BETTER!" fest, then yes.
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? No, religion is not like Math and English; not required for everyday life.
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased?
Varies with instructors, but I'm sure that there are many that are completely objective about that stuff.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this?
It's up to them, yes.
11) Why or why not?
Because I don't see a good reason as to why not.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course?
If I had an interest in the workings of some form of religion, yes.
13) Why or why not?
Already mentioned.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
Yep.
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle?
No, I highly doubt it. As long as the students inside such a school don't start mini holy wars, then it's safe.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them?
Yeah it's alright, up to them to pray.
17) What about witnessing to people?
Witnessing people pray doesn't change much, if you are bothered by praying then it's up to you to watch it being done or not.
Babylon 5: In the Beginning quote:
General Lefcourt: "My people can handle themselves. We took care of the Dilgar. We can take care of the Minbari."
Londo Mollari: "Ahh, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you."
Coming soon: Firebird Productions
General Lefcourt: "My people can handle themselves. We took care of the Dilgar. We can take care of the Minbari."
Londo Mollari: "Ahh, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you."
Coming soon: Firebird Productions
-
SyntaxVorlon
- Sith Acolyte
- Posts: 5954
- Joined: 2002-12-18 08:45pm
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Re: Psychology questionnaire: God in school.
Age: 18
Sex: Male
1) Do you believe in God? No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? I'm an atheist so, that or N/A as it isn't a religion.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? No
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow? NA
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Yes
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? No
9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Depends on the instructor. If the instructor isn't actually a social sciences teacher, but just some generic educator from the employment pool, then bias is almost impossible to stop. A professional teacher would be able to hold back their personal feelings on a topic enough to teach the material.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this? Yes
11) Why or why not? Understanding human culture is necessary for any well rounded education.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course? Yes
13) Why or why not? A nice social sciences course is helpful to one's intellect now and again. And I enjoy learning about different cultures and belief systems.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? Not likely to have any effect.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Sure, it's their right.
17) What about witnessing to people? Evangelizing is infringement on privacy in my view, so in basic courtesy, no.
Sex: Male
1) Do you believe in God? No
2) If not, who/what do you believe in/what religion do you follow? I'm an atheist so, that or N/A as it isn't a religion.
3) Do you believe that schools only support Christianity? No
4) Do you believe that schools should support other religions, too? No
5) Do you believe that schools should have religion in school? No
6) If yes, should there be programs like FCA for the other religions that members of the student body follow? NA
7) Should a class on religions be offered to the students at Cookeville High School? Yes
If yes, do you believe it should be a required class? No9) Do you believe that if such a class was offered, the instructor(s) would be biased? Depends on the instructor. If the instructor isn't actually a social sciences teacher, but just some generic educator from the employment pool, then bias is almost impossible to stop. A professional teacher would be able to hold back their personal feelings on a topic enough to teach the material.
10) If you are/were a parent, would you allow your student to take a course like this? Yes
11) Why or why not? Understanding human culture is necessary for any well rounded education.
12) If you are/were a student, would you take this course? Yes
13) Why or why not? A nice social sciences course is helpful to one's intellect now and again. And I enjoy learning about different cultures and belief systems.
14) If not, would you be interested if you knew for certain that the teachings would be historically correct?
15) If religion was kept in school, would the violence rate and/or drug usage dwindle? Not likely to have any effect.
16) If religion was not allowed in school, would it still be all right for a person or a group of people to pray as long as they were not bothering anyone else around them? Sure, it's their right.
17) What about witnessing to people? Evangelizing is infringement on privacy in my view, so in basic courtesy, no.
WE, however, do meddle in the affairs of others.
What part of [
,
, N() ] don't you understand?Skeptical Armada Cynic: ROU Aggressive Logic
SDN Ranger: Skeptical Ambassador
EOD
Mr Golgotha, Ms Scheck, we're running low on skin. I suggest you harvest another lesbian!