Ranma 1/2 vs. DragonBall Z

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-16 01:10am

Take each series as is.
Dbz people are all in character, this means no nuking the planet, and no using the dragonballs to remove the opposition, or increase their own power levels. Dbz fighters start at relatively low power, and power-up after getting beaten on. Goku will not use Instant Transmission to drop an enemy into space. Z fighters will only engage the Nerima Wrecking crew 1 on 1. Z fighters are at a level consistent with their capabilities at the end of the Cell Games, allowing them all time to heal, Goku is granted special dispensation to fight from the Grand Kai.
Ranma starts knowing every technique used against him in the series, and starts at a power level consistent with the end of the series, and already having eaten the Super Soba, and has the Martial Arts Calligraphy previously used on Ryouga. If a Z fighter uses the same technique on Ranma 3 times, he will be able to easily counter it. If a Z fighter is silly enough to use that same technique 6 times, Ranma will be able to effectively use it against them. If the Z fighter exhibits monumental stupidity by using the same technique 9 times, Ranma will be abe to use their own technique against them and revise and improve it. Believe it or not, this is toning down the capability that Ranma has displayed upon occasion. Ranma has the combined total of the magical items used in the series on his person, hidden in a variant of Mousse's hidden weapons style.
Now that I think about it, no time-travel or wishes may be used by either side, as each has displayed the capability to do both.
Can Ranma win? Will the Z fighters get completely thrashed? Will both sides team up to kill Chi-Chi and Akane before resuming their brawl? Do I really give a shit about anyone on the Nerima side other than Ranma surviving?

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-16 02:09am

There's a difference between knowing a technique and being able to use it. Sure he may be able to throw a Kamehameha but it's not going to magically shoot up to DBZ levels.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-16 02:10am

I should also add we've never seen the Ranma shatter mountains like the DBZ cast (well Ranma and Herb managed it but only after an extended battle.. the DBZ cast can typically do that in one shot).

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-16 02:36am

Yes, and Saffron blew up a mountain in one shot, and Ranma took him down.
Revise the first post to read Ranma knows and is able to perform at his customary level of skill any technique that has been used on him in the series.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-16 04:11am

Saffron was also considerably less durable than a DBZ fighter, he could dish out more punishment than he could take and he was a whiney prince to boot. And he had to use a fireball to do that to.. DBZ fighters do that with their FISTS (when you get into ki blasts you can get a nice mushroom cloud or asteroid field depending).

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-16 04:16am

Revise the first post to read Ranma knows and is able to perform at his customary level of skill any technique that has been used on him in the series.

I know how fast Ranma learns. However there is the matter of him not having the power to fuel the technique. Sure he could throw a Kamehameha if he worked over it enough.

Furthermore seeing a technique once will allow him to work it out provided he's given the time to. With the Shishihokodan he had time afterwards to work on his own version (and still couldn't get the normal one to work), Herb beat down on him several times before he was able to fight him effectively. With Saffron he needed a magical artifact, as well as Akane acting as a shield to win. If she tried acting like a shield here the both of them would end up a nice stain on the ground.

Ranma is fast, DBZ fighters are faster, stronger, and pack more firepower (hell even Mr. Satan was able to drag a bus IIRC).

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-16 04:21am

Oh and lets not forget Goku's own little talent with picking up techniques.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-16 08:21am

Ranma is certainly a better fighter in my opionion. But agianst other marital artists DBZ is The Culture, okay? So full of cheapshots that a fight is worthless. If you equal out the power levels I'm sure Ranma can kick goku's butt. But I do not think Ranma can take nukes.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-16 09:12am

Tac Nukes

Need I remind you that even lowly Goku and Vegetta's first fight aginst each other they where tossing(Quick calcs) roughly High Metaons(Hundreds) around and on no more than six occsionas took the KE equvilant of Droping a Double Decker Bus on them from orbit(Or a normal bus throw at 1900 MPH) and survived?

Not once or twice but SIX times?

Good comparsion, when it comes to HTH Fighters DBZ IS the Culture

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-18 02:32am

hmm, where to start.
First, Saffron was not less durable. Rip off Vegeta's arms, and see if they regenerate without outside assistance, and if they do, you have a point.
Slice and dice Goku into bite sized pieces, and see if he can get himself reborn without the help of the Dragonballs. He might not be able to take a punch as well, but the Z fighters would take losing major body parts considerably worse.
Ranma doesn't need a shield, all he needs to do is unseal the forbidden techniques. The Z fighters will never even see him, and have been proven lousy at detecting people suppressing their power level.
Ranma doesn't need the power to do Z style attacks, all he needs to do is goad them into throwing a large enough attack, and he can:
A: Use one of the Umisenken techniques to snatch the blast out of the air
B: Use a variation on the Hiryu Shoten Ha used in the first movie to devour their blast and hit them with it
C: Butterfly kiss them into their own attack
Dbz is not the Culture. Dbz is a bunch of sweaty yahoos who think more power is the answer to everything. FotNS skill combined with DBZ power levels is The Culture of H-T-H combat.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-18 04:30am

hmm, where to start.
First, Saffron was not less durable. Rip off Vegeta's arms, and see if they regenerate without outside assistance, and if they do, you have a point.
Slice and dice Goku into bite sized pieces, and see if he can get himself reborn without the help of the Dragonballs. He might not be able to take a punch as well, but the Z fighters would take losing major body parts considerably worse.

You seem to be confusing regeneration and durability. They are two different things, and regeneration does you little good when you're reduced to your component atoms.

Ranma doesn't need a shield, all he needs to do is unseal the forbidden techniques. The Z fighters will never even see him, and have been proven lousy at detecting people suppressing their power level.

Just like he unsealed them against Saffron eh?

And where pray tell can you quantify the comparitive ki supression of Ranma and the DBZ fighters?

A: Use one of the Umisenken techniques to snatch the blast out of the air

Care to provide proof it can handle a ki blast of that magnitude? The best it's done is against Ryu Kuumon who couldn't hold a candle to the firepower even Master Roshi is carrying about. If it could why pray tell didn't he use this against Saffron?

B: Use a variation on the Hiryu Shoten Ha used in the first movie to devour their blast and hit them with it

Except this same technique proved a might useless against Saffron because he could fly.

C: Butterfly kiss them into their own attack

And which volume was this attack in?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-18 09:49am

We are talking about Raw power here, Blasts even unpowered up that are equivlant to hundreds of tons of TNT. As for ripping of thier arms, they rather have to catch them first don't they?

Face it, The Z fights hold, Strength, speed, Stamina advantages WAY over the Ranma crowd. Ranma are better fighters but they are simply, insanly out-classed here

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-18 11:36am

Master Roshi Level: Can fire a moon destroying blast in the middle of a tournament, and still be able to fight a short time afterwards.

Cell Saga : Master Roshi :: The Thing : A Stromtrooper

Just to put things in perspective.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-18 12:11pm

consequences wrote:
Dbz is not the Culture. Dbz is a bunch of sweaty yahoos who think more power is the answer to everything. FotNS skill combined with DBZ power levels is The Culture of H-T-H combat.

No DBZ is the Culture, both move incredibly faster, and throw around weaponry leagues ahead of anyone else in the busness. No skill is required.

Though you've given me an idea....

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-10-18 05:40pm

Ranma is a very skilled fighter, but the dbz people are just too strong in this fight. Besides, Ranma can't fly and the dbz people could just fly around in the sky, out of Ranma's reach, dropping ki blasts on Ranma.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-19 03:04am

The butterfly kiss is one of the names for Happosai's "fling you into the stratosphere attack," which seems to be an advanced version of a Tai-Chi technique, that has to destabilise the chi inside the target, because Ranma, Genma, and Happosai himself were all unable to regain enough orientation to land in anything resembling a controlled manner. Seen in Graphic novel 6 several times.
Ranma didn't unseal the Forbidden techniques against Saffron because he didn't need to, he was able to win the fight without them.
*singsong childish voice* "people aren't paying attention, people aren't paying attention" *voice returns to normal*
I said he had every technique used against him, so he leads off with the Ultimate Weakness Moxibustion, follows up with the Cat's Tongue Pressure Point, and finishes up the combo with the Pressure point Tofu used against him in the very first volume. This leaves the Z fighter weak as a baby, unable to endure any level of heat, and paralyses them from the waist down about 5 minutes into the fight. After that, he may start to get mean with everything he has available

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-19 03:14am

Oh, and Dbz is not the Culture. Dbz will never be the Culture. The Culture has awesome , overpowering technology, backed up by the most incredible strategists in all of sci-fi. Dbz has awesome, overwhelming power, backed up by some of the lousiest minds in the history of anime. Give Darkstar access to Culture level technology with the Minds and A.I. doing only what they are told, taking all directtion from him, and you have an equivalent to Dbz.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-19 03:41am

consequences wrote:The butterfly kiss is one of the names for Happosai's "fling you into the stratosphere attack," which seems to be an advanced version of a Tai-Chi technique, that has to destabilise the chi inside the target, because Ranma, Genma, and Happosai himself were all unable to regain enough orientation to land in anything resembling a controlled manner. Seen in Graphic novel 6 several times.

Except that the entire DBZ cast can fly. Flinging them into the air isn't going to do jack aside from put them in a perfect position to nuke Ranma with extreme predjudice.

Ranma didn't unseal the Forbidden techniques against Saffron because he didn't need to, he was able to win the fight without them.

Didn't need them? Excuse me he was fighting for Akane's life and you're trying to say he wouldn't go all out?

*singsong childish voice* "people aren't paying attention, people aren't paying attention" *voice returns to normal*
I said he had every technique used against him, so he leads off with the Ultimate Weakness Moxibustion, follows up with the Cat's Tongue Pressure Point, and finishes up the combo with the Pressure point Tofu used against him in the very first volume. This leaves the Z fighter weak as a baby, unable to endure any level of heat, and paralyses them from the waist down about 5 minutes into the fight. After that, he may start to get mean with everything he has available

Except you seem to be forgetting that the vast majority of the DBZ cast isn't human.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-19 03:57am

they can breed with humans, they can breathe our air, and eat our food. This makes them close enough that any difference between them and a human will be no more than that between two very different humans. If it walks like a duck, breathes like a duck, eats like a duck, and fucks other ducks to make baby ducks, then its a fucking duck.
If martial artists trained in aerial combat can't overcome the effects of the technique, why the hell do you think Z fighters, who FORGET THEY CAN FLY on more than one occasion, are going to be able to effectively recover?
No, Ranma wasn't going all out during the Saffron fight. We didn't see him use any of the Umisenken techniques. This means he wasn't using every resource at his disposal. This means that either:
A; He didn't consider Akane's life to truly be in danger, or
B; He really didn't care about the bitch that much anyway.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-19 04:00am

* This is assuming Manga DBZ, since Manga is higher on the canon pecking order then the Anime. *

Assuming the DBZ fighters go all out, Ranma gets his clocked cleaned by ten thousand moon destroying punches in the first picosecond of the fight. If that doesn't do the trick, then the ten thousand punches in the second picosecond will. In any case, by the time the nurotransmitters begin to befuse in his brain, he's paste.

How do I know it's moon destroying? Master Roshi could nuke the moon, Gohan when he was more powerful than Master Roshi fired a Masenko at Nappa, Nappa punches aside the Masenko, and current incarnations of the DBZ cast would kill Nappa using only their pubic hairs.

Why ten thousand punches per picosecond? See http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 6&start=90

Saiyajin Saga Vegeta was blasted into low earth orbit by a Kamehameha and was more or less OK. SSJ Trunks holds Form 4 Freiza's death ball using one hand. Form ONE Freiza's death ball nukes a planet. During the Cell Saga, Trunks was worried that if the Final Flash simply was not focused correctly, it would have nuked the planet. SSJ2 Gohan laughs at Final Flash. Buu destroyed a galaxy, yet was owned by Mystic Gohan. Vegitto could fight when transformed into a piece of candy. Piccolo can make copies of himself to fight. Android 18 can fly into space and begin blasting Ranma from there.

This is going to hurt.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-19 04:37am

moon destroying punches?
If they put as much energy as you are describing into punching, the entire planet would have exploded near the start of the first fight they ever had. That much energy released within a planet's atmosphere would at the very least incinerate the entire surface of the planet. energy can neither be created or destroyed, and all of the energy you seem to think they routinely use has to go somewhere.
The Planet survives most of their fights, which means the maximum energy they release during an entire fight is a hell of a lot less than the 1e38 figure given for the Death Star blast.
Please don't make absurd claims that absolutely could never have happened based upon the available evidence.
Picoseconds? Where the hell do you get Picoseconds as a figure from? I'm not even going to start tearing into that until I get a semi-reasonable explanation.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-19 06:42am

consequences wrote:they can breed with humans, they can breathe our air, and eat our food. This makes them close enough that any difference between them and a human will be no more than that between two very different humans. If it walks like a duck, breathes like a duck, eats like a duck, and fucks other ducks to make baby ducks, then its a fucking duck.

Except that as I recall humans don't have tails, our hair grows, 10x normal gravity would provide lethal atmospheric pressures, and the light of the full moon doesn't turn humans in to giant rampaging apes now does it?

Furthermore we see Vegeta and Nappa snacking on a group of aliens early in the series.. does that mean the aliens were human?

For pressure points to be effective you'd need at least some evidence that the Saiyajin nerve structure is the same as a humans (which considering it's seeming ability to expand

If martial artists trained in aerial combat can't overcome the effects of the technique, why the hell do you think Z fighters, who FORGET THEY CAN FLY on more than one occasion, are going to be able to effectively recover?

Because those same martial artists can't fly (and aerial combat is hardly anything spectacular in DBZ)

All it takes to recover is to stop, and hover, something maybe 2 characters in Ranma 1/2 are capable of.

No, Ranma wasn't going all out during the Saffron fight. We didn't see him use any of the Umisenken techniques. This means he wasn't using every resource at his disposal. This means that either:
A; He didn't consider Akane's life to truly be in danger, or
B; He really didn't care about the bitch that much anyway.

Or how about-

C: they wouldn't have helped against Saffron
D: He refuses to use them because he sealed them

The suggestion that he didn't care, or that he didn't consider her life to be in danger is invalidated by his actions in the comics.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-10-19 07:56am

Oh and since you've included all the Z cast here, I feel I should point out Vegeta has no qualms about slinging around planet-busters.

And I'd dearly love to see Ranma dodge that.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2002-10-19 11:51am

consequences wrote:moon destroying punches?
If they put as much energy as you are describing into punching, the entire planet would have exploded near the start of the first fight they ever had. That much energy released within a planet's atmosphere would at the very least incinerate the entire surface of the planet. energy can neither be created or destroyed, and all of the energy you seem to think they routinely use has to go somewhere.

The Z-fighters have been adept at channeling their energy into many various forms, from dics to beams to waves. The entire point of martial arts is to channel energy in efficient ways eg. pinpointed on the target.

consequences wrote:The Planet survives most of their fights, which means the maximum energy they release during an entire fight is a hell of a lot less than the 1e38 figure given for the Death Star blast.

When Superman punches a Super Villian, the shockwave from the punch should shatter every window in Metropolis. However, this happens only for dramatic effect in the comics. It's the same thing here. Besides, it was stated several times that unless the energy was carefully controled (contained to a small blast radius or somehow radiated out into space) that the planet WOULD have been nuked. Why do you think Trunks was so scared about the Final Flash?

consequences wrote:Please don't make absurd claims that absolutely could never have happened based upon the available evidence.

Moon Busting < PL 500 < PL 3000 < Nappa's Punch < Perfect Cell's Punch < The force necessary for SSJ2 Gohan to even feel it. Happy now?

consequences wrote:Picoseconds? Where the hell do you get Picoseconds as a figure from? I'm not even going to start tearing into that until I get a semi-reasonable explanation.

Makkankosappo goes from Earth to the Moon in one or two panels in the Manga. I seem to recall it being a few seconds in the Anime. We'll say 5 seconds. That's 1/5th the speed of light.
Makkankosappo fies at Radditz. At 5 meters away, Radditz is still standing still. However, he was able to side step 1 meter to dodge the shot. Therefore Attack Speed = 5x Movement speed. Therefore Piccolo @ 329 PL = 1/25 Light Speed.

Goku @ 461 PL travels Snake Way in 182 Days
Goku @ around 8,000 PL travels snake Way in 2 Days.
*Note, combat speed has always been significantly faster than cross country speed*

It has been shown above that a 17.4x in crease in power = a 91x increase in speed. Therefore, 16x increase from 329 to 5725, means a speed increase from 1/25 light speed to 3.64 light speed.

Understand now? 5725 PL = 3.64x Light Speed in combat.
Now, me multiply PL by 17.4 and speed at 91 again.
99,608 PL (A bit weaker that Capt. Ginyu) = 331.24x Light speed.
1,733,179 PL = 30,142.84x Light Speed

This would be a bit weaker than Freiza's third form. (2,000,000 PL approx)

Therefore, at Freiza's third form, he can travel at over 30,000 times the speed of light.

Picoseconds is GENEROUS.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-10-19 11:37pm

This is silly, the best fighter of all Ranma series, either Cologne or Happosai cannt destroy planets with punches, much less survive to that.
Ranma's skills may be awesome and all, but it is useless. Saffran did not flyied, name or not, out of Ranma's reach, something that DBlarghZ characters can do. They can resist to much more strength than ranma can inflict. They can move much more fast than Ranma.
Its like a Stardestroyer facing one of our moderm planes. They are very good, have killing strategies, etc, but nowhere in the powerlevel of the Stardestroyer. Ranma stands no chance (Actually, he is hardly the best in his own series, so...)