Evangelion

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-16 12:41am

Ahhh, EoE, the only anime that beats out the entirety of FotNS for sheer amount of Splut. Shinji is still the most useless gimp I have ever seen in the history of anime, and he's up against some serious competition in spots.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-10-16 01:10am

Jesus, you some of you are really harsh on a 14 year old boy who's mother is dead, father doesn't care about him, and has been rejected by virtually everyone he's ever known.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-16 01:12am

The boy is still a complete waste of oxygen, even after making allowances for how shitty his life is. If he had had a normal upbringing and turned out that way, I would cull his entire family from the gene pool.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-10-16 01:22am

Back up your claim.

In responce to your second sentense: WTF? Can we say pointless bitching?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-10-16 02:47am

I have the right to pointlessly bitch if I want to damn it.
You want an example of someone who coped? Ranma Saotome was thrown into a pit full of starving cats at age 6, didn't know his mother was alive for ten years, when he found out she was alive, he also found out that she would most likely require him to gut himself if she ever learned his identity, turns into a girl with a splash of cold water, just about every one he has ever met has declared their desire to kill him at least once, and has more insanity happen to him on a daily basis than most people ever see in their lives. And he didn't become a spineless whiner because of it.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2002-10-16 03:37am

Consequences all you did was to show how Genma Saotome is a far bigger prick then Gendo Ikari could ever hope to be.

As to why Ranma never thought of killing the sorry sack of shit is beyond me.

Shinji had been improving as a human being up until Unit One tear the shit out of Unit Five(?). The Eva manga does explain much more in detail on why Shinji was psychotic.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-10-16 07:59am

Hey look at Amuro Ray, he was thrown into a war at age 15 and has bouts with depression and a refusal to fight but he matures over the course of the show.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-16 08:14am

Why is Shinji worthless in your guys opionion? Besides not only are your examples not nearly as bad as Shinji's childhood. He still kicked Angel arse and did manage to growup at the end of the series.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-10-16 08:27am

Darth_Shinji wrote:Why is Shinji worthless in your guys opionion? Besides not only are your examples not nearly as bad as Shinji's childhood. He still kicked Angel arse and did manage to growup at the end of the series.

One source I read said the series ended with him accepting instrumentality. Why do you think he was in the company of all those dead people?

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-16 08:34am

Setzer wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:Why is Shinji worthless in your guys opionion? Besides not only are your examples not nearly as bad as Shinji's childhood. He still kicked Angel arse and did manage to growup at the end of the series.
One source I read said the series ended with him accepting instrumentality. Why do you think he was in the company of all those dead people?

Yeah. So? He acceapted that he can live with other poeple. that he needed other people to define himself, and didn't have to be alone anymore... In short he quite pushing people away and became happy.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2002-10-16 10:01am

That was only for the TV ending. The orginal script for episodes 25 & 26 were rejected for content, so they had to focus solely on Third Impact from Shinji's perspective. End of Evangelion is the actual ending, after episode 24.

Also, only certain children can pilot an Eva because of the synchronization relationship between the human pilot and the human soul within every Eva (yes, even the Evas 05-13 had human souls).

Why the hell does everyone have to be so hostile about this series? It isn't just about giant robots (unlike first impression), it's not that confusing watching it once through, a character doesn't have to be a flawless 'Adam Rockabs' to be liked, the action doesn't have to be one big testosterone-buff fest, and it doesn't need a happy ending to be liked. Jesus Q. Christ, if you don't like good drama, don't waste so much time bitching about it.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-16 10:18am

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:That was only for the TV ending. The orginal script for episodes 25 & 26 were rejected for content, so they had to focus solely on Third Impact from Shinji's perspective. End of Evangelion is the actual ending, after episode 24.

I've heard serval reasonings for the movie and tv.
1. the tv series is shinji accepting third impact and reconsoling his phyic.
2. the movie is shinji rejecting third impact and him and asuka are reborn on earth. (new adam and eve prehaps?)

3. The tv series is the directors original ending...but fans wanted a bloody action filled ending, and he gave it to them.

Also I don't think Eva gets too much hostility. Very few people hate it compared to how many love it. Its diffintly one of the best mech shows I've ever seen.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2002-10-16 10:23am

3. The tv series is the directors original ending...but fans wanted a bloody action filled ending, and he gave it to them.

That's not true. The censors, after finally regaining control over previewing the content of the series, rejected the director's original scirpt. That's why the TV ending only focuses on Shinji: They couldn't show the violent, disturbing, real-world events of Third Impact.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-16 10:49am

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
3. The tv series is the directors original ending...but fans wanted a bloody action filled ending, and he gave it to them.
That's not true. The censors, after finally regaining control over previewing the content of the series, rejected the director's original scirpt. That's why the TV ending only focuses on Shinji: They couldn't show the violent, disturbing, real-world events of Third Impact.

Gotta link? Many people I talk too agree with the one I posted above. Eva is supposed to be the directors personal couch-trip.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-16 11:06am

Setzer wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:Why is Shinji worthless in your guys opionion? Besides not only are your examples not nearly as bad as Shinji's childhood. He still kicked Angel arse and did manage to growup at the end of the series.
One source I read said the series ended with him accepting instrumentality. Why do you think he was in the company of all those dead people?

Spoiler: And the movies ended with him damning humanity because *he wanted to be left alone*

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-16 11:10am

Darth_Shinji wrote:Also I don't think Eva gets too much hostility. Very few people hate it compared to how many love it. Its diffintly one of the best mech shows I've ever seen.

One of the best? Don't know about that. Grossly overrated? Definitely.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-16 11:53am

Slartibartfast wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:Also I don't think Eva gets too much hostility. Very few people hate it compared to how many love it. Its diffintly one of the best mech shows I've ever seen.
One of the best? Don't know about that. Grossly overrated? Definitely.

Both are opionions. Though I don't understand yours.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-10-16 12:41pm

Darth_Shinji wrote:
Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
3. The tv series is the directors original ending...but fans wanted a bloody action filled ending, and he gave it to them.
That's not true. The censors, after finally regaining control over previewing the content of the series, rejected the director's original scirpt. That's why the TV ending only focuses on Shinji: They couldn't show the violent, disturbing, real-world events of Third Impact.
Gotta link? Many people I talk too agree with the one I posted above. Eva is supposed to be the directors personal couch-trip.

Read Evangelion's entry in the Anime Encyclopedia, for one.

http://www.evaotaku.com/
This site also has an excellent version of the Red Cross Book.

In their FAQ:

Q) Which is the true end to Evangelion? The TV episodes or the films?

A) The End of Evangelion is the official ending to the saga. In the RCB it is stated that EoE was created from the original scripts for eps 25 and then a new script written to continue from that episode, but because of production errors they could not be used. However, this does not mean the TV ending is false, it is simply an alternate conclusion.

And considering that Shinji was rejected and told he was worthless by many, many people over his entire life; I'm not surprised that he's the way he is. Pretty realistic, actually.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-10-16 01:21pm

So, I stand corrected.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-10-16 03:46pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Setzer wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:Why is Shinji worthless in your guys opionion? Besides not only are your examples not nearly as bad as Shinji's childhood. He still kicked Angel arse and did manage to growup at the end of the series.
One source I read said the series ended with him accepting instrumentality. Why do you think he was in the company of all those dead people?
Spoiler: And the movies ended with him damning humanity because *he wanted to be left alone*

Not at all; IIRC, Shinji terminates the Third Impact, realizing how empty and meaningless the "higher existence" would be, and chooses to live with Asuka. It's not clear what the fate of the rest of humanity is after that; they may come back, or they may have all died with the failure of the Third Impact.

Shadowhawk · Post by **Shadowhawk** » 2002-10-16 04:46pm

And the movies ended with him damning humanity because *he wanted to be left alone*

Bullshit. The movies ended with Shinji realizing that rejection, pain, humiliation, and all the general unpleasantness of life is what makes us human. He rejects insturmentality because it's a cop-out and completely counter to what being human means. Bliss without pain isn't bliss at all. And as Durran says, we do not really know what the rest of humanity's fate was.

Were they given a choice, like Shinji? Was Shinji the only one exempted from the TI? Is Asuka's life a 'gift' of Kami-Rei, or was she given a choice and rejected TI as well?
Did Shinji's choice drop everyone naked back to the real world?
Or is it all Shinji's ideal LCL fantasy world?

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2002-10-16 05:19pm

Shadowhawk wrote:
And the movies ended with him damning humanity because *he wanted to be left alone*
<snip>

Were they given a choice, like Shinji? Was Shinji the only one exempted from the TI? Is Asuka's life a 'gift' of Kami-Rei, or was she given a choice and rejected TI as well?
Did Shinji's choice drop everyone naked back to the real world?
Or is it all Shinji's ideal LCL fantasy world?

I think that Asuka rejected TI. Afterall, why should anyone, let alone someone as whipped as Shinji, be permitted to make a decision of this magnitude? I like to think everyone got to make their own decision, and in the end, Shinji turned out to be braver than he thought.

Seele · Post by **Seele** » 2002-10-16 06:42pm

I think that Asuka rejected TI. Afterall, why should anyone, let alone someone as whipped as Shinji, be permitted to make a decision of this magnitude? I like to think everyone got to make their own decision, and in the end, Shinji turned out to be braver than he thought.

I think that Shinji did reject Instmentality as well as Asuka. I also believe that other people may be able to make up their own minds if they want to come back but Shinji and Asuka may have been the 1st ones to do so since they were in Eva's when 3rd Impact happened.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-10-16 07:17pm

Shadowhawk wrote:
And the movies ended with him damning humanity because *he wanted to be left alone*
Bullshit. The movies ended with Shinji realizing that rejection, pain, humiliation, and all the general unpleasantness of life is what makes us human. He rejects insturmentality because it's a cop-out and completely counter to what being human means. Bliss without pain isn't bliss at all. And as Durran says, we do not really know what the rest of humanity's fate was.

Were they given a choice, like Shinji? Was Shinji the only one exempted from the TI? Is Asuka's life a 'gift' of Kami-Rei, or was she given a choice and rejected TI as well?
Did Shinji's choice drop everyone naked back to the real world?
Or is it all Shinji's ideal LCL fantasy world?

I don't think it's Shinji's LCL fantasy world, why would Shinji have such a bizarre fantasy?

My guess is; either Shinji and Asuka are the new Adam and Eve, or everyone else, over a period of time comes out of the LCL sea. The environment would to start repairing itself to sustain life, also, it appeared to be pretty seriously ravaged by the Third Impact.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2002-10-17 02:41am

Shadowhawk wrote:
And the movies ended with him damning humanity because *he wanted to be left alone*
Bullshit. The movies ended with Shinji realizing that rejection, pain, humiliation, and all the general unpleasantness of life is what makes us human. He rejects insturmentality because it's a cop-out and completely counter to what being human means. Bliss without pain isn't bliss at all. And as Durran says, we do not really know what the rest of humanity's fate was.

Were they given a choice, like Shinji? Was Shinji the only one exempted from the TI? Is Asuka's life a 'gift' of Kami-Rei, or was she given a choice and rejected TI as well?
Did Shinji's choice drop everyone naked back to the real world?
Or is it all Shinji's ideal LCL fantasy world?

The dialogue tends to indicate that the decision was entirely up to Shinji. Everybody else just turned to organic goo.

But anyways . . . geez, I would not want to have the future of humanity decided by somebody like Shinji. And being selfless just doesn't seem to be something that's a part of Shinji's nature. The ending didn't leave me with that warm fuzzy feeling about the fate of humans apart from Shinji and Asuka.