California Lawmakers Want Voting Age Lowered to 14

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2004-03-10 05:51am

Hell no. I already question the ability of many adults to vote reasonably. Letting kids vote will just stuff the ballots with many more uninformed votes. Most kids wouldn't know WTF they were doing, and would probably vote for the "coolest" candidate. Imagine candidates resorting to endorsements from rappers and pop stars in their campaigns. Other kids who are more under control and obedient might be forced by their parents to vote the same as they do.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-03-10 08:39am

just like in silly student council elections, the kids will vote for the physically attractive and charming candidates. dumbest idea ever.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2004-03-10 01:01pm

If anything, I think that voting rights should be restricted further, rather than loosened - IMO the only ones allowed to vote should be the ones who have the sufficient knowledge about the inner workings of society, as well as what sort of socio-economic structure suits human nature the best.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-03-10 01:03pm

it could be a good idea in theory, but like everyone else said i'm not sure how feasible it would be. your average teen tends to not really care about politics whatsoever. there's a handful of exceptions, but they're few and far between.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-10 01:03pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:A better idea might be to make voting mandatory, with violators punished with a moderate fine.

Why in Hell do we want people who do not want to vote, and do not try to vote, being forced to posess more political power?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-03-10 01:28pm

Vympel wrote:I don't think 14 year olds no shit about anything to be allowed to vote. Granted, I'm sure there are some 14 year olds more intelligent than some moron who's out there who doesn't know how the fuck to punch a chad, but really, it just strikes me as irresponsible. What 14 year old even thinks about issues at all?

Given some of the polls I've seen, I don't think the average adult has any right to criticize a 14 year-old for his ignorance of political issues.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-03-10 01:46pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:So, theoritically speaking, how would the passage of this affect the age of consensual sex in California? (Not that the 11 year old "mothers" there are paying it any heed anyway).

I don't think it would change it at all. I don't see why it would. I suppose it might facilitate a movement towards a lower age of consensual sex, but realistically I don't see much support for such a change and so I don't think that the few hundred thousand youth votes this would bring in would make that much of a difference to the issue. Eighteen is a fairly standard age of consent within the US, with only a very few states having a lower one. I thus do not see how this bill would have any impact whatsoever on the age of consensual sex, which is governed by a wholy different series of laws (just as the age to legally purchase alcohol is different).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-10 01:47pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:just like in silly student council elections, the kids will vote for the physically attractive and charming candidates. dumbest idea ever.

Right. Totally unlike the 2000 election, where Gore's "wooden personality" was cited as the single biggest impediment to his election

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-03-10 01:52pm

Durandal wrote:Given some of the polls I've seen, I don't think the average adult has any right to criticize a 14 year-old for his ignorance of political issues.

Show me a poll comparing the average adult's knowledge of politics to the average 14 year old's knowledge of politics. Half of all HS students, as of 1999, felt that Michael J. Fox should be President, and more than ten percent thought he already was one, according to the polls I've seen. Two thirds of all American HS students can't name three American wars/military actions (ie. Revolution, First and Second World Wars--I'm done). While I agree that there are some dumb-as-a-post adults who are already voting, more often people who are that spectacularly ignorant don't vote anyway, and moreover I don't see how this bill would serve to alleviate the problem at all.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-03-10 02:02pm

I say we have tests in order to vote.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-03-10 04:05pm

Speaking as a 14 year old who knows many other 14 year olds...no. Hell fucking no.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-03-10 05:13pm

Wasn't their originally a provision in the constitution that some people counted as a third of a person.

that's it, it's another attempt by californication to have their votes actually mean something, first it was getting an earlier primary, doesn't matter, by the elections are already over before the even start counting votes in california.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-03-10 05:24pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Wasn't their originally a provision in the constitution that some people counted as a third of a person.

that's it, it's another attempt by californication to have their votes actually mean something, first it was getting an earlier primary, doesn't matter, by the elections are already over before the even start counting votes in california.

iirc, the original constitution counted the slave population as every three slaves for 1 full vote. however only their owners could vote at the time, so it's not like they had much of a say beyond what the owner said.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-03-10 05:31pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Wasn't their originally a provision in the constitution that some people counted as a third of a person.

that's it, it's another attempt by californication to have their votes actually mean something, first it was getting an earlier primary, doesn't matter, by the elections are already over before the even start counting votes in california.

It was dubbed the "Three-Fifths Compromise."

Basically it said that slaves counted as three-fifths of a person for the purposes of determining population, and therefore representation within the House. Slaves, however, never got to vote even as a fraction of a person. The compromise only applied for the purposes of determining the EC and the House membership. This was one of the central compromises within the constitution.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-03-10 05:50pm

I know I was playing devil's advocate.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-03-10 06:07pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:just like in silly student council elections, the kids will vote for the physically attractive and charming candidates. dumbest idea ever.
Right. Totally unlike the 2000 election, where Gore's "wooden personality" was cited as the single biggest impediment to his election

'wooden' eh? now how would you describe Georgie-boy's personality? wouldn't they cancel each other out?

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2004-03-10 06:14pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Speaking as a 14 year old who knows many other 14 year olds...no. Hell fucking no.

Damn, you're 14? I had you pegged for being at least 18.

Son of the Suns · Post by **Son of the Suns** » 2004-03-10 06:49pm

I think the age at which you can vote, drink, be tried as an adult, and be drafted should be the same.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-03-10 06:58pm

Son of the Suns wrote:I think the age at which you can vote, drink, be tried as an adult, and be drafted should be the same.

I agree. If you're not even old enough to take responsibility for your actions by going to prison instead of Juve then you have no business voting on things that can potentially effect the entire state or even the country.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-03-10 09:06pm

Master of Ossus wrote:<snip about young people voting liberal stats>

Well then I guess you're probably right about the motivations behind this proposal. However I would say it is a bad idea not because of that, but because high schoolers generally don't have a clue, and since so few in that age group actually vote, it would be a wasted effort.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2004-03-10 09:30pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Durandal wrote:Given some of the polls I've seen, I don't think the average adult has any right to criticize a 14 year-old for his ignorance of political issues.
Show me a poll comparing the average adult's knowledge of politics to the average 14 year old's knowledge of politics. Half of all HS students, as of 1999, felt that Michael J. Fox should be President, and more than ten percent thought he already was one, according to the polls I've seen. Two thirds of all American HS students can't name three American wars/military actions (ie. Revolution, First and Second World Wars--I'm done). While I agree that there are some dumb-as-a-post adults who are already voting, more often people who are that spectacularly ignorant don't vote anyway, and moreover I don't see how this bill would serve to alleviate the problem at all.

Link for any of these claims? Googling the Michael J Fox poll didn't return anything

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2004-03-10 10:11pm

No. We already have enough misinformed voters as it is.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-03-10 10:14pm

Frankly, the only people I know who would vote in an organized fashion would be the damn Chastity Club (aka the Happy Fundie Hour) members, and their choices can't be good for our nation.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-03-10 10:31pm

Bad idea.

Not just because of the power it would give the multitudes of teenage dickheads, but because of the influence that high school teachers would suddenly wield over a signficant percentage of the voting populace. I had too many teachers in high school who used their position to impose their moronic worldviews on their students and actually succeeded to support something like this.

Besides, could you imagine upswing in Christian youth groups trying to get kids to "vote right?"

The thought churns my stomach.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-03-10 11:38pm

Coming from someone who is 14, i wouldn't wan't any of my classmates voting...