Halo PC multiplayer dead?

[The Kernel]

Gee, maybe the reason I don't buy a console is because the only games on it I like happen to be BETTER on the PC? Ever think of that dumbass?

Then you are either a gamer with extremely narrow tastes who has no right to be dictating what constitutes a good game to anyone or you are someone who hasn't played a great number of console games.

[Alyeska]

Gee, maybe the reason I don't buy a console is because the only games on it I like happen to be BETTER on the PC? Ever think of that dumbass?

Then you are either a gamer with extremely narrow tastes who has no right to be dictating what constitutes a good game to anyone or you are someone who hasn't played a great number of console games.

I fucking dare you to show me how a console can even compare to a PC when it comes to FPS and Strategy.

[Alyeska]

Hey, you guys do what you have to do. I would be pissed if I were in your shoes too.

Then stop fucking making fun of us, insulting us, and telling us to get over it. If you would stop that, I would have no bloody reason to yell at you.

[The Kernel]

I fucking dare you to show me how a console can even compare to a PC when it comes to FPS and Strategy.

FPS: Halo, Goldeneye, Metroid Prime, Deus Ex 2
Strategy: Final Fantasy: Tactics, Metal Gear Solid/MGS 2, Diseaga.

There are more, but since I doubt you will even take these as proof (since it is an enitrely subjective matter and you happen to be a fanboy) I won't hold my breath for your conversion to my way of thinking.

[The Kernel]

Then stop fucking making fun of us, insulting us, and telling us to get over it. If you would stop that, I would have no bloody reason to yell at you.

As you'll notice by reading my exchanges with Durandal, I am not making fun of PC gamers (of which I am one), I am making fun of YOU because you are a crybaby and a fanboy.

[Alyeska]

I fucking dare you to show me how a console can even compare to a PC when it comes to FPS and Strategy.

FPS: Halo, Goldeneye, Metroid Prime, Deus Ex 2
Strategy: Final Fantasy: Tactics, Metal Gear Solid/MGS 2, Diseaga.

There are more, but since I doubt you will even take these as proof (since it is an enitrely subjective matter and you happen to be a fanboy) I won't hold my breath for your conversion to my way of thinking.

Three words.

Mouse and Keyboard.

All your games languish without them. FPS and Strategy can NEVER compare to PC because they lack the mouse and keyboard.

FYI, Red Faction didn't have auto aim features and people hated the game because of how hard it was to hit anything. Halo has to use auto aim because its so bloody hard to hit anything. Even still sniping is like trying to hit a jet with a spitball. As for Strategy. The use of the mouse to command the units while using the keyboard for action keys is remarkably fast.

Compare playing Halo on the X-Box and on the PC. Now tell me which is superior. Compare playing Command & Conquer on a console and compare it to PC. PC fucking owns the console when it comes to FPS and Strategy.

This fact didn't escape Microsofts notice which is why they did their damndest to keep Halo OFF the PC because people would naturaly want to play it on the superior platform.

[Alyeska]

Then stop fucking making fun of us, insulting us, and telling us to get over it. If you would stop that, I would have no bloody reason to yell at you.

As you'll notice by reading my exchanges with Durandal, I am not making fun of PC gamers (of which I am one), I am making fun of YOU because you are a crybaby and a fanboy.

Which shows how pathetic an invidual you are. I started much the same way in the debate as Durandal but your so friendly responses to me escalated things. You then say if the situation was reversed you would feel the same way, but refuse to relent on harassing the PC fans.

[The Kernel]

I fucking dare you to show me how a console can even compare to a PC when it comes to FPS and Strategy.

FPS: Halo, Goldeneye, Metroid Prime, Deus Ex 2
Strategy: Final Fantasy: Tactics, Metal Gear Solid/MGS 2, Diseaga.

There are more, but since I doubt you will even take these as proof (since it is an enitrely subjective matter and you happen to be a fanboy) I won't hold my breath for your conversion to my way of thinking.

Three words.

Mouse and Keyboard.

All your games languish without them. FPS and Strategy can NEVER compare to PC because they lack the mouse and keyboard.

FYI, Red Faction didn't have auto aim features and people hated the game because of how hard it was to hit anything. Halo has to use auto aim because its so bloody hard to hit anything. Even still sniping is like trying to hit a jet with a spitball. As for Strategy. The use of the mouse to command the units while using the keyboard for action keys is remarkably fast.

Compare playing Halo on the X-Box and on the PC. Now tell me which is superior. Compare playing Command & Conquer on a console and compare it to PC. PC fucking owns the console when it comes to FPS and Strategy.

This fact didn't escape Microsofts notice which is why they did their damndest to keep Halo OFF the PC because people would naturaly want to play it on the superior platform.

Yeah, I really hunger for a mouse and keyboard when I'm playing Final Fantasy Tactics, Diseaga and the Metal Gear series.

You have now proved conlusively that you have never played ANY of these games that weren't ported to the PC, since you claim control issues where they did not exist. Even Halo and Metroid Prime left me satisfied with the control scheme and I never felt like I needed/wanted a mouse and keyboard.

[The Kernel]

Which shows how pathetic an invidual you are. I started much the same way in the debate as Durandal but your so friendly responses to me escalated things. You then say if the situation was reversed you would feel the same way, but refuse to relent on harassing the PC fans.

What is it about people with serious personality malfunctions that forces them to blame everyone else for their issue? I got news for you bub, I'm not the first person to accuse you of hypersensitivity and fanboyism (heck, I'm not even the first person TODAY to do so) and yet you persist in blaming everyone but yourself.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Jesus Christ, this is EXACTLY THE SORT OF SHIT I WAS THROWING MY ARMS UP ABOUT!

DROP IT, BOTH SIDES! THIS ARGUEMENT IS FUCKING STUPID!

[Pu-239]

PC

• more games- can run most everything back to games from the 80s, not to mention emulators and whatnot. Also lower cost of development means sharewhare, freeware, etc.
• higher resolution- TV resolution is pretty low, and even HDTV doesn't have as high a resolution than a monitor at 1600x?
• Better user interface for most games except racing and fighting games (ugh).
• PC is multiuse, though consoles are beginning to take on this feature (not as well)
• Mods
• PC is upgradable.
• No need to go out and buy memory cards (irrelavant for Xbox).
• Cheaper/Free games available
• No proprietary lock-in

Console

• 100% compatibility within one platform and zero on everything else
• Ease of usage, no install time yeah, for the unwashed computer illiterates, hehe
• Portable
• Better multiplayer on single machine
• Better controllers for those evil racing games
• Works on large screen display devices

PC wins. [/list]

[SirNitram]

Pu: That last one on Consoles applies to PC's. Or didn't you know lots of people are buying those big ass Plasmas for their monitors?

[The Kernel]

Pu: That last one on Consoles applies to PC's. Or didn't you know lots of people are buying those big ass Plasmas for their monitors?

It's just a shame that more game developers aren't coding 16:9 native resolution for their games. I've got a widescreen laptop myself and there is a growing widescreen market for PC display devices, and its not like it would take all that much effort either.

[Hobot]

PC

• more games- can run most everything back to games from the 80s, not to mention emulators and whatnot. Also lower cost of development means sharewhare, freeware, etc.
• higher resolution- TV resolution is pretty low, and even HDTV doesn't have as high a resolution than a monitor at 1600x?
• Better user interface for most games except racing and fighting games (ugh).
• PC is multiuse, though consoles are beginning to take on this feature (not as well)
• Mods
• PC is upgradable.
• No need to go out and buy memory cards (irrelavant for Xbox).
• Cheaper/Free games available
• No proprietary lock-in

Console

• 100% compatibility within one platform and zero on everything else
• Ease of usage, no install time yeah, for the unwashed computer illiterates, hehe
• Portable
• Better multiplayer on single machine
• Better controllers for those evil racing games
• Works on large screen display devices

PC wins.

Your list is very nice, but you can't sum up fun like that. I love PC gaming because of the huge variety of games, the convenience of being able to play whenever I want (for the most part), and the ability to customize just about everything. But console gaming beats the PC multi-player experience for me (playing in the same room as your friends and not having to deal with annoying 13 year olds is my idea of heaven) and its ease of use is bliss when I'm not in the mood to deal with the PC's god awful hangups (computer illiterate or not, everbody has to deal with them).

EDIT: This is for Alyeska - Star Trek sucks hard, so do its fanatical followers; Halo 2 will kick so much ass that you'll end up selling your PC, keyboard, mouse and your SOUL just to play it once; and your reply will make me laugh. Thank you.

[Alyeska]

EDIT: This is for Alyeska - Star Trek sucks hard, so do its fanatical followers; Halo 2 will kick so much ass that you'll end up selling your PC, keyboard, mouse and your SOUL just to play it once; and your reply will make me laugh. Thank you.

I love you to.

[Durandal]

I admit that I'm not exactly current as to the state of Mac gaming. And I agree with you that the current G5 Mac has excellent hardware and API support, the biggest problem being that not a lot of game companies think it is worth the trouble to port titles given the size of the Mac install base. I really hope you're right about things changing, but until I see some evidence of that, I'm not holding my breath.

That's the thing. It's not the companies themselves that do the ports. Ports are generally given to people like Westlake Interactive. From what I hear, Westlake does a damn good job, and they did a better job optimizing Halo for the Mac than Gearbox did for PC. There's no real way to confirm that, though.

This fact didn't escape Microsofts notice which is why they did their damndest to keep Halo OFF the PC because people would naturaly want to play it on the superior platform.

Yeah, I really hunger for a mouse and keyboard when I'm playing Final Fantasy Tactics, Diseaga and the Metal Gear series.

He's got a point, regardless of whether you think he's overreacting. Virtually all of the people initially interested in Halo were PC and Mac gamers. People who typically bought consoles didn't really care. And I'd wager that a sizable portion of the X-Box's base is made up of PC gamers; the X-Box is, after all, more or less a PC. So, if Halo was released for the PC 6 months or so after the X-Box release, no one would've bought the X-Box version, because the simple reality is that playing FPSs on consoles sucks compared to playing them on PCs.

I don't think the scenario will be as bad with Halo 2; I imagine they'll get a decent port out within a year, but Microsoft will still milk Halo 2 for all it can. That's why PC and Mac gamers are resentful of the X-Box and to a certain extent, X-Box players. Go past all the betrayal shit I was talking about before. Now Bungie operates on Microsoft's schedule, and that schedule only cares about one thing: profit.

Jesus Christ, this is EXACTLY THE SORT OF SHIT I WAS THROWING MY ARMS UP ABOUT!

DROP IT, BOTH SIDES! THIS ARGUEMENT IS FUCKING STUPID!

How about I drop my dick in your mouth instead? Don't run around acting like you can authoritatively tell people what to do.

[Hobot]

That's why PC and Mac gamers are resentful of the X-Box and to a certain extent, X-Box players. Go past all the betrayal shit I was talking about before. Now Bungie operates on Microsoft's schedule, and that schedule only cares about one thing: profit.

Durandal, do you think it's possible that Bungie decided to go with Microsoft and the Xbox, because at the time the future of Mac gaming was not looking very good?

I think a few good things may have come from Bungie's decision to go wtiht he Xbox. Namely, many more people have discovered the Marathon series (I not a heavy gamer and I had never heard of them until I encountered Halo).

[Alyeska]

That's why PC and Mac gamers are resentful of the X-Box and to a certain extent, X-Box players. Go past all the betrayal shit I was talking about before. Now Bungie operates on Microsoft's schedule, and that schedule only cares about one thing: profit.

Durandal, do you think it's possible that Bungie decided to go with Microsoft and the Xbox, because at the time the future of Mac gaming was not looking very good?

I think a few good things may have come from Bungie's decision to go wtiht he Xbox. Namely, many more people have discovered the Marathon series (I not a heavy gamer and I had never heard of them until I encountered Halo).

At the time Bungie was more then a Mac developer. They had also built a core of loyal fans with the Myth series on the PC.

[Slartibartfast]

I think a few good things may have come from Bungie's decision to go wtiht he Xbox. Namely, many more people have discovered the Marathon series (I not a heavy gamer and I had never heard of them until I encountered Halo).

Wouldn't it make more sense to make people who OWN either PCs or Macintoshes to learn about the prequel Marathon, specially since it's only available for PCs and Macs and _not_ for the Xbox?

[The Kernel]

That's the thing. It's not the companies themselves that do the ports. Ports are generally given to people like Westlake Interactive. From what I hear, Westlake does a damn good job, and they did a better job optimizing Halo for the Mac than Gearbox did for PC. There's no real way to confirm that, though.

Sure, but the original developers/publishers have to make the decision to have it ported. I'm just not sure how good the payoff is for most Mac ported games. Judging by the number of titles that get ported (mostly big name titles) I'd say that it is profitable, but only on the bigger games.

He's got a point, regardless of whether you think he's overreacting. Virtually all of the people initially interested in Halo were PC and Mac gamers. People who typically bought consoles didn't really care. And I'd wager that a sizable portion of the X-Box's base is made up of PC gamers; the X-Box is, after all, more or less a PC. So, if Halo was released for the PC 6 months or so after the X-Box release, no one would've bought the X-Box version, because the simple reality is that playing FPSs on consoles sucks compared to playing them on PCs.

That isn't what I was talking about. Sure, a mouse and a keyboard is a superior setup for FPS's, but it isn't superior for all games, and it is even inferior to a controller for many. My point about Halo on the Xbox was that Bungie did a really great job with the controls so that even though it wasn't as good as the mouse/keyboard combo, it was good enough that I didn't miss them.

I don't think the scenario will be as bad with Halo 2; I imagine they'll get a decent port out within a year, but Microsoft will still milk Halo 2 for all it can. That's why PC and Mac gamers are resentful of the X-Box and to a certain extent, X-Box players. Go past all the betrayal shit I was talking about before. Now Bungie operates on Microsoft's schedule, and that schedule only cares about one thing: profit.

Bungie operating on Microsoft's schedule? Once the game is finished, it's true that Microsoft has pretty much total control over it, but during development, Microsoft's Xbox division has standing orders to leave Bungie alone. They still have complete creative control over the product (Microsoft is too afraid of ruining their flagship title by getting involved) Bungie just no longer decides what happens to their games once they are done.

[DPDarkPrimus]

How about I drop my dick in your mouth instead? Don't run around acting like you can authoritatively tell people what to do.

Gee, did I threaten to call a mod or something? I'm glad you think of me as an authoritarian figure, though.

I am fucking tired of these PC/Console arguements. They are pointless. People just like to wank about their favorite.

[Durandal]

Sure, but the original developers/publishers have to make the decision to have it ported. I'm just not sure how good the payoff is for most Mac ported games. Judging by the number of titles that get ported (mostly big name titles) I'd say that it is profitable, but only on the bigger games.

Indeed. We Mac gamers like to think of the PC gaming community as our "quality control," who assure that only good titles get ported, in order to make ourselves feel better.

That isn't what I was talking about. Sure, a mouse and a keyboard is a superior setup for FPS's, but it isn't superior for all games, and it is even inferior to a controller for many. My point about Halo on the Xbox was that Bungie did a really great job with the controls so that even though it wasn't as good as the mouse/keyboard combo, it was good enough that I didn't miss them.

No, it's not. I'd much rather play a racing game with a console controller, for example. And real gamers always miss their mice and keyboards.

Bungie operating on Microsoft's schedule? Once the game is finished, it's true that Microsoft has pretty much total control over it, but during development, Microsoft's Xbox division has standing orders to leave Bungie alone. They still have complete creative control over the product (Microsoft is too afraid of ruining their flagship title by getting involved) Bungie just no longer decides what happens to their games once they are done.

Yes, once the game is finished, which is what matters in terms of when the ports will get done. Bungie could take forever and a day to get Halo 2 out the door on the Xbox, but Microsoft will make sure that it takes forever and about 2 years to get it on the PC and Mac.

Gee, did I threaten to call a mod or something?

No, you're just pissing and whining and overall adding absolutely nothing of substance to the thread.

I'm glad you think of me as an authoritarian figure, though.

I don't. Do you have reading comprehension problems?

I am fucking tired of these PC/Console arguements. They are pointless. People just like to wank about their favorite.

No one's forcing you to post in the thread, and there's perfectly legitimate discussion going on here.

[The Kernel]

You know Durandal, it occurs to me that Mac gamers biggest problem is the lack of proper video cards in your mainstream hardware. Although the G5 and the older G4 desktops are/were well equipped in this regard, the much more popular iMac line has never been given a satisfactory graphics card option which makes it very difficult for game developers to port games that most of the install base can't play very easily (they are currently saddled with the GeForce FX 5200 as their highest speed option).

This is compounded by the difficulty in upgrading iMac's and the price of the higher end PowerMac's which basically relegates them to a largely workstation audience (not the sort of people that typically play games). I think Apple might do well to start integrating better video hardware in their iMac line (as well as eventually putting a PPC970 variant in there) if they really want to attract gamers. A videocard upgrade option wouldn't hurt either (heck, if PC notebooks can do it, the iMac can do it).

[Durandal]

You're essentially right, but you have to remember that gaming isn't exactly Apple's chief market. Granted, I like to game, but I don't use a Mac because it's a killer game box. I use it because I think OS X is the best OS out there, and if I can game on the side, that's fine too.

[Alyeska]

In a previous debate on FPS games on the console one person indicated that the X-Box can have a mouse and keyboard attached to it. Is this true? Or is it possible to hook a X-Box into a PC and use the PC controls to run the X-Box?