Drunken dad asks 11 year old Son to Drive

[Embracer Of Darkness]

well, you get an enormous amount of fun out of it...

If you need to be drunk in order to loosen your inhibitions enough to have fun, then you have problems.

He (and I for that matter) didn't just say that you "have fun", he said that you get an "enormous amount of" fun. Alcohol not only lowers the inhibitions, it also enhances the senses and changes your perception, which just so happens to make things seem even more fun.

There's a reason that alcohol has been around since Mesopotamia, and there's a reason primates are known to chow down on rotting fruits. I think that the consumption of alcohol, even to get wasted, is fine as long as the person doing it isn't an idiot. Precautions must be taken, yes, and there are risks, of course, but the same things can be said about sex.

[General Zod]

by the time someone becomes smashed enough to the point where they're shit face drunk, they're usually not capable of rational thought and make idiotic choices. getting drunk in your own home is one thing, as you aren't likely to make that many mistakes. but get plastered in public, and you're likely to do all kinds of idiotic things.

[Darth Wong]

He (and I for that matter) didn't just say that you "have fun", he said that you get an "enormous amount of" fun. Alcohol not only lowers the inhibitions, it also enhances the senses and changes your perception, which just so happens to make things seem even more fun.

Wrong. It retards your brain functions and degrades your senses. As I said, if you need to deliberately dull your brain and central nervous system functions in order to have fun, something is wrong with your life.

There's a reason that alcohol has been around since Mesopotamia, and there's a reason primates are known to chow down on rotting fruits. I think that the consumption of alcohol, even to get wasted, is fine as long as the person doing it isn't an idiot.

"Getting wasted" means "deliberately turning yourself into an idiot".

Precautions must be taken, yes, and there are risks, of course, but the same things can be said about sex.

No, they can't. Sex does not degrade your brain functions, damage your motor control, ruin your reflexes, dull your senses, or kill off brain cells.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

He (and I for that matter) didn't just say that you "have fun", he said that you get an "enormous amount of" fun. Alcohol not only lowers the inhibitions, it also enhances the senses and changes your perception, which just so happens to make things seem even more fun.

Wrong. It retards your brain functions and degrades your senses. As I said, if you need to deliberately dull your brain and central nervous system functions in order to have fun, something is wrong with your life.

I don't recall ever saying that I need alcohol to have fun. I do, however, recall saying that alcohol makes things seem even more fun. As for "deliberately dulling" my brain and nervous system, have you not thought that people might enjoy that feeling from time to time? Which, as I said, is one of the reasons people have been getting wasted since Mesopotamia.

There's a reason that alcohol has been around since Mesopotamia, and there's a reason primates are known to chow down on rotting fruits. I think that the consumption of alcohol, even to get wasted, is fine as long as the person doing it isn't an idiot.

"Getting wasted" means "deliberately turning yourself into an idiot".

Again, there's a reason people have been doing it for centuries. Sometimes it feels great to let go and be an idiot. However (and this is where I mean that you're generalising), I'd never drink to the point where I wouldn't care about drink-driving. There are precautions that should be taken, such as leaving the car at home, or getting drunk in a place with half-brained security staff. Contrary to what you might think, some people (even when wasted) still have a conscience and self-control, and won't allow themselves to do something so idiotic to cause immediate harm to themselves or others.

Precautions must be taken, yes, and there are risks, of course, but the same things can be said about sex.

No, they can't. Sex does not degrade your brain functions, damage your motor control, ruin your reflexes, dull your senses, or kill off brain cells.

Actually, sex can trigger certain people to commit acts such as rape. You must've heard of cases where people wouldn't accept a "stop" during intercourse? Also, sex is commonly known to potentially spread disease.

[salm]

If you need to be drunk in order to loosen your inhibitions enough to have fun, then you have problems.

sure, if you need alcohol to have fun then you need to quit drinking.
i can´t see anything wrong with getting extremely drunk every once in a while.

of course you can have just as much or more fun by doing other stuff. personally i enjoy snowboarding and sex, for example, more than alcohol.

[Darth Servo]

i can´t see anything wrong with getting extremely drunk every once in a while.

That is until said drunk gets into a bar room brawl, behind the wheel of a car, into bed with a total stranger or any of the other umpteen moronic things drunk people are known to do.

[The Third Man]

That is until said drunk gets into a bar room brawl, behind the wheel of a car, into bed with a total stranger or any of the other umpteen moronic things drunk people are known to do.

Sweeping generalisation aside, why do you say that getting into bed with a total stranger is a moronic thing to do?

[AdmiralKanos]

That is until said drunk gets into a bar room brawl, behind the wheel of a car, into bed with a total stranger or any of the other umpteen moronic things drunk people are known to do.

Sweeping generalisation aside, why do you say that getting into bed with a total stranger is a moronic thing to do?

Sexually transmitted diseases, the possibility that she's running some kind of scam or heist or con (or worse), etc. This is not exactly a difficult question to answer. Putting yourself into a vulnerable and compromising situation while your judgement, reflexes, and thinking are all severely impaired is beneath stupidity.

[The Third Man]

The risk of contracting an STD can be mitigated to very low levels by simple precautions. The risk of scams and cons is miniscule anyway. Accepting these risks against the potential pleasure to be gained is not moronic; at worst it could be described as foolhardy, and that is a matter of personal opinion.

Moronic would be to know for sure that there is an extremely high risk of an unfavourable outcome for little potential gain, and to proceed with the action regardless. That fits with drink driving and fighting, but promiscuity doesn't deserve to be grouped with those.

[salm]

That is until said drunk gets into a bar room brawl, behind the wheel of a car, into bed with a total stranger or any of the other umpteen moronic things drunk people are known to do.

indeed. these people need to be punished. not becuase they drank of course but because of the other crimes.
combining drinking with other stuff, like driving, or fighting doesn´t make drinking evil. that would be like saying that driving is evil because you can combine driving with drinking.

so, still nothing wrong with getting drunk.

[Darth Servo]

Sweeping generalisation aside, why do you say that getting into bed with a total stranger is a moronic thing to do?

What sweeping generalization? Did I say that ALL drunks do those things? No. Do you deny that there is a definite INCREASE in those activities among drunks?

[The Third Man]

What sweeping generalization?

I read it as a generalisation, obviously you didn't intend it that way. Fine, but I'm not really bothered either way, that's why I said "aside".

What I am interested in is why you put getting into bed with strangers into the same category of "moronicness" as drink-driving and brawling.

Do you deny that there is a definite INCREASE in those activities among drunks?

So by this question you are asking:
1) Do people, in general, get into fights more frequently when drunk than sober?
2) Do people, in general, get behind the wheel more frequently when drunk than sober?
3) Do people, in general, get into bed with strangers more frequently when drunk than sober?

I would answer: Increase in frequency for the first activity, decrease for the second and very difficult to say for the last.

[Darth Servo]

What I am interested in is why you put getting into bed with strangers into the same category of "moronicness" as drink-driving and brawling.

Will you argue that getting AIDS isn't just as hazardous to your health as slamming your car into a brick wall? The only real difference is the amount of time.

So by this question you are asking:
1) Do people, in general, get into fights more frequently when drunk than sober?
2) Do people, in general, get behind the wheel more frequently when drunk than sober?
3) Do people, in general, get into bed with strangers more frequently when drunk than sober?

I would answer: Increase in frequency for the first activity, decrease for the second and very difficult to say for the last.

Fine. Since you seem to insist on nit-picking my statements, let me clarify--do you deny that there is an increased HAZARD to self and others when one is drunk, with those three listed activities being simply EXAMPLES?

[Darth Servo]

so, still nothing wrong with getting drunk.

A person is a much greater danger to him/herself and others when drunk than sober. That alone makes getting drunk wrong.

[The Third Man]

Will you argue that getting AIDS isn't just as hazardous to your health as slamming your car into a brick wall? The only real difference is the amount of time.

We aren't talking about the level of hazard, we're talking about whether or not the actions are equally moronic. In any case, you are making a flawed analogy; getting into bed with strangers whilst drunk is not as dangerous as driving a car whilst drunk, and more importantly offers virtually no potential benefits to oneself. One is indeed moronic, the other merely foolhardy - see my post in reply to Darth Wong.

do you deny that there is an increased HAZARD to self and others when one is drunk

Not at all. In some cases the increased risk of harm is trivially small (eg getting into bed with strangers), but in some cases the increased risk is sufficiently large that to subject oneself and others to it is indeed moronic (eg driving a car).

those three listed activities being simply EXAMPLES

The first two are good examples and I have no problem with them, only with your third example; I would have been fine with your comment if you'd said "operating a chainsaw" or "getting their hands on a gun".

[Slartibartfast]

It's stupid to get drunk at any time,

What about us teens who study and/or work really hard all week then just want to have one night out on the town and get totally pissed, and don't cause a single little problem for ourselves or anybody else? I think you're totally over-generalising there, sorry.

Well, who says stupid = bad

[SAMAS]

do you deny that there is an increased HAZARD to self and others when one is drunk

Not at all. In some cases the increased risk of harm is trivially small (eg getting into bed with strangers), but in some cases the increased risk is sufficiently large that to subject oneself and others to it is indeed moronic (eg driving a car).

Problem is, both are set off by the exact same thing. You really can't choose to get drunk to sleep with someone, and not get drunk to drive, unless you literally make it impossible to do one of them. And those are only two of the many dumb(and sometimes fatal) things people can and do do when drunk/high.

Yes, acting dumb can be lots of fun(I do it a lot myself, probably more than I should), but you don't need to render yourself unable to act otherwise. Which, IMO. makes getting drunk twice as stupid.

[Darth Servo]

One is indeed moronic, the other merely foolhardy - see my post in reply to Darth Wong.

Oh yes, taking precautions while totally wasted. You REALLY think you're going to remember to put on a condom when you can barely tell where you are?

[salm]

so, still nothing wrong with getting drunk.

A person is a much greater danger to him/herself and others when drunk than sober. That alone makes getting drunk wrong.

a person is also a much grater danger to himself and others when he´s driving in a car. is driving cars wrong? or actually the question is: is driving cars for fun wrong? (as well as skiing, snowboarding, rugby, hockey, boxing, wrestling)

i don´t know what it´s like in your place, but on warm summer weekends stuttgart downtown the number of drunk people tends to outweight the number of sober people. for some reason most people don´t instantly kill each other.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

One is indeed moronic, the other merely foolhardy - see my post in reply to Darth Wong.

Oh yes, taking precautions while totally wasted. You REALLY think you're going to remember to put on a condom when you can barely tell where you are?

Yes, I have. Problem? Thought not.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

A person is a much greater danger to him/herself and others when drunk than sober. That alone makes getting drunk wrong.

a person is also a much grater danger to himself and others when he´s driving in a car. is driving cars wrong? or actually the question is: is driving cars for fun wrong? (as well as skiing, snowboarding, rugby, hockey, boxing, wrestling)

I'm seconding this, completely.

i don´t know what it´s like in your place, but on warm summer weekends stuttgart downtown the number of drunk people tends to outweight the number of sober people. for some reason most people don´t instantly kill each other.

Same thing happens here on Avenham Park in the summer, or in clubs every night, and I don't actually remember a single news article in my town about "drunk person stabs/shoots/kills/rapes person in drunken stupour".

Seeing as people here are making sweeping generalisations, I am going to make one... Maybe it's you Americans who shouldn't drink, because you supposedly think drunk people are evil psychotics. We're going to carry on getting wasted as people have been doing through all recorded history, and we're going to have a lot of fun. You can be safe from the evils of alcohol if you like.

[Darth Servo]

a person is also a much grater danger to himself and others when he´s driving in a car. is driving cars wrong?

Driving a car recklessly most certainly is. You treat driving with the same disregard that drunks treat a bottle and they WILL throw your sorry ass in jail. When you're getting hammered you are certainly beign reckless.

or actually the question is: is driving cars for fun wrong?

Driving a car is essential for our society to function. Getting hammered is not. BUT they DO highly regulate who can and cannot drive a car. There ARE LAWS strictly governing the use of a car. You can NOT drive any speed you want to. I wonder why.

(as well as skiing, snowboarding, rugby, hockey, boxing, wrestling)

And any ski resort usually has warning signs about engaging in those activities at your own risk Professional athletes DO need to sign release forms in the event of injury (btw, I think professional boxing IS stupid and everyone knows the WWE is fake).

i don´t know what it´s like in your place, but on warm summer weekends stuttgart downtown the number of drunk people tends to outweight the number of sober people. for some reason most people don´t instantly kill each other.

You don't get into a wreck every time you run a stop-sign either. I guess there's nothing wrong with ignoring traffic laws. You won't die every time you play Russian Roulette. So if must be prefectly reasonable and intelligent to engage in such activities.

[The Third Man]

One is indeed moronic, the other merely foolhardy - see my post in reply to Darth Wong.

Oh yes, taking precautions while totally wasted. You REALLY think you're going to remember to put on a condom when you can barely tell where you are?

If you are capable of performing the act, you are capable of putting on a condom.

You also ignore the fact that the infection rate of STDs among potential sexual partners is not 100%, that even if it was the transmission rate is not 100%, and that the fatality rate from "an STD" is not 100%

Even if all the above were 100%, you still do not address the point that there is no chance of direct harm to others from having sex with someone, unlike the cases of drink driving or fighting. You also fail to address the point that there are potential benefits to oneself in having sex with someone that can be weighed against the potential risks.

Do you still maintain that sex-while-drunk is as moronic (or "evil" if you like) as driving-while-drunk?

We have legal penalties for drink-driving; many on this board think they are not harsh enough and have advocated a death penalty. If you put drink-fucking on a par with drink-driving, then what do you think the penalty for anyone found fucking with more than 100mg alcohol per 100ml blood should be? Death penalty? Are you in favour of the police carrying out random bedside checks?

[General Zod]

[qoute="The Third Man"]Do you still maintain that sex-while-drunk is as moronic (or "evil" if you like) as driving-while-drunk? [/quote]

it isn't the point that one is more moronic than the other. the point is that you're more likely to do idiotic things while drunk than while sober. it isn't guaranteed that you'll run into someone when drunk either, however it's far more likely to occur than when you're sober. just the same as contracting an STD because people are less likely to be worried about precautions or the fact that something bad could happen.

[Connor MacLeod]

It's stupid to get drunk at any time, never mind when you're with your kid. What the fuck was he taking his kid to a bar for? What kind of asshole drags his kid to a bar and gets drunk there?

Welcome to America