What can Kill Dragonball Z Characters, especially Saiyans?

[Darth_Shinji]

Here are a few things in anime that could take on dbz. If they have been said already I aplogize aI haven't read thought the whole thing yet.

Tenchi Mazaki from the ova and manga series: Escaping from a balckhole and cutting spaceships in half. In the manga he can fly and his battles are alot like in what I've seen.

Genocyber. This chick ravaged the entire surface of the earth in a hundred year war and nuked a small countrie in seconds. Her main weapon though is her incredibly psionics... She can make dbz characters kill themselves.

Shin Getta Robo: According to what I hear of the manga (or maybe the tv series) he can destroy the universe... nuff said.

The evoluder working together mght be able to kill one. If not, wait another 200 years *Shudders*. Then have them fight.

[Yogi]

Here's a calculation that I did a while ago. Some DBZ-haters won't be satisfied unless you rpovice solid proof.

Well if it's proof they want . . .

Goku @ 461 PL (as stated by Radditz's scouter) took Six months (182 days) to cross Snake Way at long distance speed.
Goku @ A little more than 8,000 (as stated by Vegeta's scouter) took two days.

8,000 / 461 = 17.35. Since it was a little above 8,000, we'll round it to 17.4 for convinience. Goku's power increased by 17.4

182 / 2 = 91. Goku's speed increased by 91

Therefore, when one's effective power is increased by a factor of 17.4, one's effective speed is increased by a factor of 91

Piccolo, when firing at Radditz, boosted his PL temporarily to 1330 to fire a Makkankosappo, which is around Radditz's level. He was standing around 20 meters away when he fired. However, Radditz was su surprised that when the blast was only around 5 meters from him, he was still standing stock still. However, he was able to move 1 meter to sidestep most of the attack. Therefore, an energy attack travels, around 5x as fast as a person can move in combat speed.

At PL 329 (read by Bulma's scouter), Piccolo launched a blast which destroyed the moon, either in the next panel, or in the same one (hard to say). Let's be VERY generous, and say that the blast traveled from Earth to the Moon in five seconds. That's approx. 1/5 the speed of light. That' makes Piccolo's running speed 1/25th the speed of light.

It has been shown above that a 17.4x in crease in power = a 91x increase in speed. Therefore, 16x increase drom 329 to 5725, means a speed increase from 1/25 light speed to 3.64 light speed.

Understand now? 5725 PL = 3.64x Light Speed in combat.
Now, me multiply PL by 17.4 and speed at 91 again.
99,608 PL (A bit weaker that Capt. Ginyu) = 331.24x Light speed.
1,733,179 PL = 30,142.84x Light Speed

This would be a bit weaker than Freiza's third form.

Therefore, at Freiza's third form, he can travel at over 30,000 times the speed of light.

[Ghost Rider]

Mind you I need to explain to DBZ here...that SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't achieve LIGHT.

SSJ 3 GOTENKS...a FUSION MILLIONS OF TIMES STRONGER THAN FRIEZA EVER WAS.

So please, shut this bullshit, if an SSJ3 couldn't do lightspeed when it matter, what the fuck are you smoking thinking Frieza could accomplish 30K that?

[Yogi]

Mind you I need to explain to DBZ here...that SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't achieve LIGHT.

When . . was that stated? I recall Gotenks zipping aound the world a few times (in the manga, it was in one panel) but I can't recall an instance when he tried to go at a speed or attempt a feat which would involve the speed of light, and fail, nor do I recall an instance when he stated that he was going at his limit, or what his limit was.

[Ghost Rider]

When facing Buu, he only traversed the Earth six times in One second...a little shy of Light. This is actually visual canon evidence...

Regarding hand to hand...brings much of the contradictions of DBZ immediately.

[Ghost Rider]

Why would try for less given that this being is a galaxy destroyer...implying that is saying a kid on the street pacing himself against Superman.

Sorry when facing a being who took down Gohan, Vegita and pretty much most of DBZ and you're considered last hope(they had no idea Vegita and Gohan weren't deader than a doornail...like it matters for DBZ) is not a time to pace oneself.

[Yogi]

First, was he stated as going at his max speed?

Second, the first point is irrelavent.

People have been fighting at faster than eye speed since Kuririn vs. Jackie Chung. If all fights were protrayed as going at real life speeds, then after around the Saiyajin Saga, most fights would last between one frame and the next of 24 frames per second animation. Essencially, the combatents would dissapear, then one frams later the battle would be over.

So, we have two choices regarding interpretation of the Anime.

1) The Anime is a visual representation of the original Manga. As the manga uses pannels, all speeds are relative. Therefore, super speed is implied in the manga. This is impossible to replicate in the Anime, so action is slowed down to speeds the human eye can comprehend, and say "Wow, cool!"

2) Even when fighting against vastly more powerful opponents in the SSJ2 - SSJ3 class , people will travel at speeds slower than Jackie Chung all the way back in Dragonball, despite their ability tomove much faster.

I hold option #1 to be the more logical one, though I don't know about you.

[The Yosemite Bear]

90% of the character's in SHADOWRUN travel faster then the human eye can follow, so do Eldar Harliquins in Warhammer 40k, or the Drakka and Cheetas. Moving faster then the human eye can process requires only movement in excess of 90mph/145kph. Now given the amount of energy WASTED by those idiots at any given show, the amount of tactical stupidity displayed by them A monowhiped streetsamuria, should be abole to take one of them down.

[Ghost Rider]

You still haven't answered and in fact used the flawed Power level=increased all around power...if so Buu is in the nigh infinite range yet killed by a Spirit Bomb of what rating...one small planet. Sorry...at his level of power he should've deflected the second one as well as the first.

Please tell me the logic in DBZ with power level=all around power distribution.

On one hand we have being who at that pure upper range can snuff galaxies(Buu was apparently accomplishing this), destroy dimensional barrier, etc...yet SSJ3 Goku can only lift 40 tons, everyone in the Frieza Saga never achieved even a billionth of Light speed(unless they want to leisurely fly from one side of Namek to another...etc.)

Seriously DBZ is full of contradictions that saying it adhers to logic(by rating power level to speed) is basically saying that since in Db they destroy planetoids...Goku in the Frieza saga when going SSJ1 should've destroyed Namek that single second.

[The Yosemite Bear]

That is because except for that teleport trick, they have never shown an ability to move faster then an object with a relative movement speed in excess of 300mph. (90 mph to appear as just a blur) about (now just to do the after image thing one just has to move faster then 32images/second) (Or hold still for one second and and then move to a speed of about 270mph)

[Ghost Rider]

I completely understand that but the huge Flying proof of Gotenks only going at about...76,000km per sec is just slightly below Lightspeed. I mean IT is just one of things they use to get over they cannot travel that fast from place to place.

For his Frieza sage being able to do 30Kx times the speed of light please disprove that why Gotenks(considered to be pretty much last hope, at least in his mind) is doing so much less of lightspeed, let along thousands of times that. AS well this is much further in the series and with a phenomally more powerful being than Frieza.

As for the contention him not going all out...please elucidate that against a being capable of turning the galaxy into dust you wouldn't go all out?

[Yogi]

I have alredy explained to you that the Anime deastically slows down movement, so precieved time is not the same as "actual" time. Are you then going by the statement that 90% of the fights in DBZ take place with both contestants drastically holding back in their speed? Time in the Anime means very little. Remember how long it took Namek to explode? While that is an extreme example, as well as being drasticaly distorted with a bunch of Toei filler, the fact remains that the seen speeds do not match the actual speeds.

An example of this would be the speed of the Makkankosappo. In the Anime, one can see it travel from Piccolo's fingertips towards Radditz. If one decides to go at that speed, then it would take quite a while to it to reach the moon when Piccolo fiered it. Ditto with the Kamehameha. Both of them reach the moon very quickly. Therefore, not all speeds are created equal. In fact, one can see the various perspectives. From a normal human's point of view it appears to be a blur, while to the fighter's point of view, everything's moving in "normal speed"

Furthurmore, except for USSJ Trunks and Bulked Perfect Cell, when has an increase in speed NOT seen a comparable increase in power and reaction time?

I have use evidence directly from the Manga. You have used evidence from the Anime. The Manga is higher on the Canon Pecking Order than the Anime. Therefore, my evidence trumps your evidence.

[Australopithicus]

Please don't tell me that we're arguing whether DBZ characters can travel a light speed...

Does 'Shunkan Idou' mean anything to any of you?

Long distance travel at the speed of light (such as around the Earth) without the Shunkan Idou is even impossible in the DBZ world. However, as superspeed takes less distance (say, a few metres) then it could be argued that these characters are travelling faster than light. If someone is moving and Saiyan eyes can't pick them up, then they must be travelling at at least somewhere in a tight margin of the speed of light. The fact that we can see them when in some superspeeds (e.g the entire SSJ Goku - 100% power Frieza fight) and not sometimes even in this superspeed should show that these characters should be travelling faster than light.

[Vendetta]

1) The Anime is a visual representation of the original Manga. As the manga uses pannels, all speeds are relative. Therefore, super speed is implied in the manga. This is impossible to replicate in the Anime, so action is slowed down to speeds the human eye can comprehend, and say "Wow, cool!"

No, they just made the UTTERLY COCKBRAINED decision to adapt it at the rate of one episode-one issue.

The average issue of a Dragonball comic is 32 pages long, each page contains roughly 3-7 panels, dialogue is fairy scarce. It takes the average reader aproximately one and a half to two minutes to read the entire comic.

The average Dragonball episode is 25 minutes long. This is an expansion of around 1250%.

this makes for LONG pauses in action, as the episodes must be padded somehow, meaning that an average story suddenly becomes an ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISMAL one.

[Yogi]

No, they just made the UTTERLY COCKBRAINED decision to adapt it at the rate of one episode-one issue.

The average issue of a Dragonball comic is 32 pages long, each page contains roughly 3-7 panels, dialogue is fairy scarce. It takes the average reader aproximately one and a half to two minutes to read the entire comic.

The average Dragonball episode is 25 minutes long. This is an expansion of around 1250%.

this makes for LONG pauses in action, as the episodes must be padded somehow, meaning that an average story suddenly becomes an ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISMAL one.

It's probably a lot MORE than a 1:1 ratio, because of Garlic Jr. (*cries*) and Afterlife Tournament (to give the Devil his due, Pikuhan was all right).

Still, my original point still stands. The Jackie Chung / Kuririn is one of the last times in either the Anime or Manga when people were actually seen moving in real time in battle. After that point, everything is slowed down.

[consequences]

and pan made it around the world in 12 seconds, at something like 1.2 percent of lightspeed, and she was supposed to be very powerful even at her young age.
30000 times light speed?!!?
Why the hell would Goku need to explicitly use instant transmission while on earth if he could move that fast?