Drunken dad asks 11 year old Son to Drive

[Darth Servo]

Which doesn't disprove that not all drunken people are idiots, does it.

The debate is about INCREASED hazzards from getting drunk. The statment I was replying to was about dangerous behavior know to happen in increased numbers among drunks. NO WHERE did I say all drunks act like that.

False. My argument is thus: "I don't personally know anyone who acts like an idiot when they're drunk, therefore insinuate that anyone who gets drunk is an idiot is a sweeping generalisation."

And name ONE instance where the anti side of this discussion has said that EVERYONE who gets drunk acts like that. Enough of this strawman already.

"Getting wasted" means "deliberately turning yourself into an idiot".

There's one.

And guess what asshole. DW was NOT saying that all drunks become dangerous. I was simply giving some possibilities of how that statement is true but that was by no means an exclusive list. But it appears that DW was right in your case since you seem to not be able to tell the difference between "all", "some" and "none". DW backed up his own statement with examples of decreased sensory perception, judgement, reactioin times. Can you do as well on school tests when you're drunk or hung over? If not then you ARE an idiot when drunk.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

The debate is about INCREASED hazzards from getting drunk.

Then you've obviously not read a thing I've said, as I'm not even arguing that drinking is hazard free. You may not have noticed, but my only argument so far has been that "not all people are idiots when they're drunk".

The statment I was replying to was about dangerous behavior know to happen in increased numbers among drunks. NO WHERE did I say all drunks act like that.

Yes, some people are dangerous when drunk, and I don't recall saying otherwise. As I just said, my entire argument is that not all people are idiots when they're drunk.

And guess what asshole. DW was NOT saying that all drunks become dangerous.

I'll put it back into context then...

There's a reason that alcohol has been around since Mesopotamia, and there's a reason primates are known to chow down on rotting fruits. I think that the consumption of alcohol, even to get wasted, is fine as long as the person doing it isn't an idiot.

"Getting wasted" means "deliberately turning yourself into an idiot".

I was basically pointing out, again, that drinking is fine for people who aren't idiotic and violent when drunk. Then Wong basically said that Drunk ! = Idiot, which would be a generalisation.

DW backed up his own statement with examples of decreased sensory perception, judgement, reactioin times.

Which are, as I already said, only hazards if the drunk person involved hasn't taken precautions. Example: When I and my friends go out to get pissed all cars are left at home, and we get taxis back home from the club. Even when we have crappy perception, judgement, and reaction times nothing goes wrong. If people can get drunk without becoming violent idiots, then I see absolutely fuck all wrong with those people getting drunk.

Can you do as well on school tests when you're drunk or hung over? If not then you ARE an idiot when drunk.

Would I ever get drunk before an exam? No. Because I'm not a Stupid Drinker™, and I think about things like planning ahead, as I have already mentioned many times. Yet you do not seem to understand, at all.

[salm]

meh, i don´t think that the risk of starting a fight, driving drunk or some such thing increases signifacantly for the vast majority of people.

You know thats exactly the same thing every DUI convict says BEFORE he/she has actually gotten into trouble. NOONE thinks it will happen to them....until it does.

so what? there are still millions of people who claim the same thing and NEVER do any of the drunk driving, fight starting, std spreading....

[salm]

this changes the fact that there's alot of people that DO act stupid how?

i don´t know. i guess not at all. but that´s not my point. my point is that getting drunk is not stupid by default.

as to the second question, how someone reacts while intoxicated cannot be predicted easily. it's different for every person, as well as someone's current emotional state. there's no universal method of knowing just how someone will react under the influence.

and that is relevant for this topic how?

there are laws concerning the drinking age and how old someone can be to drink alcohol you know. . .

what´s the relevance of this statement?

wow, major sweeping generalization there. and an extremely poor analogy. someone that's drunk and driving will almost always cause more accidents than someone that's sober and driving. also, if you're going to make analogies, i'd recommend comparing them to something that's actually similar and makes sense.

what the hell are you talking about? where you drunk when you postet or is my wording that bad?
i didn´t even give you an analogy. i´m stating that people who drive very, very fast will have an accident very, very likely.
whereas most people who drink very, very much will not start fights, won´t drink and drive, won´t spread stds.
how did you get the impression that i was making an analogy and where is the generaliation?

this changes the fact that people are more likely to do stupid things while
intoxicated than while sober how?

this is getting stupid. where is your statistic that proves that ALL people are more likely to do stupid stuff while drunk and not just a minority?

[salm]

You know thats exactly the same thing every DUI convict says BEFORE he/she has actually gotten into trouble. NOONE thinks it will happen to them....until it does.

oh, and thank´s for not adressing the rest of my post at all.

[salm]

Isn't it amazing that the pro-drunk side is consistantly accusing the anti-side of "sweeping generalizations" while at the same time using one or two exceptions and anecdotal evidence (the autobahn, I don't personally do those things when I'm wasted, etc) to try and refute the statiscical fact that drunks are more reckless than sober people.

you fail to notice that the autobahn is not the argument. the argument was "the speed-alcohol analogy is not useful"

furthermore i don´t think that i´ve claimed that i get my info from my own behavior.

i´d also like to see the statistic which claims that all or at least the vast majority of people are more reckless when drunk than when sober.

[General Zod]

Linky

although i can't find anything on statistics yet, i did find some facts sheets showing exactly WHY drinking alcohol is more likely to cause people to do idiotic and wreckless things.

0.02-0.03 BAC: No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Depressant effects are not apparent.

0.04-0.06 BAC: Feeling of well-being, relaxation, lower inhibitions, sensation of warmth. Euphoria. Some minor impairment of reasoning and memory, lowering of caution.

0.07-0.09 BAC: Slight impairment of balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing. Euphoria. Judgement and self- control are reduced, and caution, reason and memory are impaired.

0.10-0.125 BAC: Significant impairment of motor coordination and loss of good judgement. Speech may be slurred; balance, vision, reaction time and hearing will be impaired. Euphoria. It is illegal to operate a motor vehicle at this level of intoxication.

0.13-0.15 BAC: Gross motor impairment and lack of physical control. Blurred vision and major loss of balance. Euphoria is reduced and dysphoria is beginning to appear.

0.16-0.20 BAC: Dysphoria (anxiety, restlessness) predominates, nausea may appear. The drinker has the appearance of a "sloppy drunk."

0.25 BAC: Needs assistance in walking; total mental confusion. Dysphoria with nausea and some vomiting.

0.30 BAC: Loss of consciousness.

0.40 BAC and up: Onset of coma, possible death due to respiratory arrest.

all of these effects sure seem like getting drunk is intentionally making oneself stupid.

[salm]

Linky

although i can't find anything on statistics yet, i did find some facts sheets showing exactly WHY drinking alcohol is more likely to cause people to do idiotic and wreckless things.

do you really think that all people are significantly more likely to do stupid suff when drunk?
there are so many people who got drunk in their life and never did anything wrong. these people are now dead and therefor can´t do anything stupid anymore. wouldn´t that prove that not everybody does stupid stuff when drunk?

[/quote]
<snip>

all of these effects sure seem like getting drunk is intentionally making oneself stupid.[/quote]
ah, it proves that you get stupid when you´re drunk, but not that it IS stupid to get drunk. you also get pretty stupid when you sleep. that doesn´t mean that sleeping IS stupid.
getting stupid isn´t necessarily stupid (at least not if it´s temporary stupidity).

[General Zod]

sleeping is a natural biological function required for the brain to refresh itself and let the body rest. it would be stupid NOT to sleep. drinking, however, is not a natural function.

as far as your other argument, intentionally making yourself stupid in and of itself is an act of stupidity.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

sleeping is a natural biological function required for the brain to refresh itself and let the body rest. it would be stupid NOT to sleep. drinking, however, is not a natural function.

Actually, I already cited that animals often like to chow down on rotting fruits, which often contain alcohol. Natural? Yes.

as far as your other argument, intentionally making yourself stupid in and of itself is an act of stupidity.

There's a difference between making yourself stupid, and making yourself stupid and causing people harm because of it. That difference is called fun, you might want to try it sometime.

Not all drunk people are dangerous, it's that fucking simple. The way some of you keep demonizing the act of getting drunk is making you sound almost fundie-like.

[BoredShirtless]

as far as your other argument, intentionally making yourself stupid in and of itself is an act of stupidity.

Shut up you stupid little twit. Drinking is enjoyable and mixes well with social gatherings. Maybe you should go out and try it once before calling everyone who drinks an idiot.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

Drinking is enjoyable and mixes well with social gatherings. Maybe you should go out and try it once before calling everyone who drinks an idiot.

Amen to that. Vivé la alcohol!

[Darth Servo]

There's a difference between making yourself stupid, and making yourself stupid and causing people harm because of it. That difference is called fun, you might want to try it sometime.

I get plenty of fun in my life without drinking poison, thank you very much.

Not all drunk people are dangerous, it's that fucking simple. The way some of you keep demonizing the act of getting drunk is making you sound almost fundie-like.

The way you keep distorting our arguments from "increased possibility of hazard while drunk" to "all drunks immediately get behind the wheel and kill families" IS very creationist-like.

[salm]

sleeping is a natural biological function required for the brain to refresh itself and let the body rest. it would be stupid NOT to sleep. drinking, however, is not a natural function.

irrelevant. cooking food is not natural. you can´t define somethings´s stupidity degree on it´s naturalness.

as far as your other argument, intentionally making yourself stupid in and of itself is an act of stupidity.

why? if it doesn´t hurt anyone? we now have to differentiate between two stupids. the first stupid we were talking about was stupidity = hurting others and yourself (drunk driving, fight starting, std spreading).
the stupid we´re talking about now is stupidity = forgetting stuff, crapy speech abillity, worse ability in logic and so on.

i can´t see how putting yourself into the temporary state of the second stupidity is wrong.
putting yourself into the state of the first stupidity IS wrong though. so if you know that alcohol turns gives you stupidity no 1, it´s wrong for you to get drunk.
everybody else can blow their brains out without being stupid (even though temporary stupidity is involved) IMO.[/list]

[Darth Servo]

Drinking is enjoyable and mixes well with social gatherings. Maybe you should go out and try it once before calling everyone who drinks an idiot.

Amen to that. Vivé la alcohol!

If you want to hang your hat with a "village idiot" then you just proved my point.

[General Zod]

sleeping is a natural biological function required for the brain to refresh itself and let the body rest. it would be stupid NOT to sleep. drinking, however, is not a natural function.

Actually, I already cited that animals often like to chow down on rotting fruits, which often contain alcohol. Natural? Yes.

just because something's natural doesn't mean it's healthy or good for humans to consume in massive quantities.

as far as your other argument, intentionally making yourself stupid in and of itself is an act of stupidity.

There's a difference between making yourself stupid, and making yourself stupid and causing people harm because of it. That difference is called fun, you might want to try it sometime.

not all of us need to turn ourselves into an idiot to have fun.

Not all drunk people are dangerous, it's that fucking simple. The way some of you keep demonizing the act of getting drunk is making you sound almost fundie-like.

mind pointing out where i said all drunk people are dangerous? instead of taking cheap pot shots, how about actually refuting my arguments as to why being intoxicated is bad instead of just saying it's fun therefore it's acceptable?

[Darth Servo]

sleeping is a natural biological function required for the brain to refresh itself and let the body rest. it would be stupid NOT to sleep. drinking, however, is not a natural function.

Actually, I already cited that animals often like to chow down on rotting fruits, which often contain alcohol. Natural? Yes.

Dogs will also drink anti-freeze because of the sweet taste yet it kills them. Natural? yes.

[Darth Servo]

sleeping is a natural biological function required for the brain to refresh itself and let the body rest. it would be stupid NOT to sleep. drinking, however, is not a natural function.

Actually, I already cited that animals often like to chow down on rotting fruits, which often contain alcohol. Natural? Yes.

Dogs will also drink anti-freeze because of the sweet taste yet it kills them. Natural? yes. Stupid? Absofuckinglutely.

[BoredShirtless]

Drinking is enjoyable and mixes well with social gatherings. Maybe you should go out and try it once before calling everyone who drinks an idiot.

Amen to that. Vivé la alcohol!

If you want to hang your hat with a "village idiot" then you just proved my point.

Pussy.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

There's a difference between making yourself stupid, and making yourself stupid and causing people harm because of it. That difference is called fun, you might want to try it sometime.

I get plenty of fun in my life without drinking poison, thank you very much.

Whoopie-fucking-doo, good for you. I also have enough fun without it, but it in itself is also alot of fun.

Not all drunk people are dangerous, it's that fucking simple. The way some of you keep demonizing the act of getting drunk is making you sound almost fundie-like.

The way you keep distorting our arguments from "increased possibility of hazard while drunk" to "all drunks immediately get behind the wheel and kill families" IS very creationist-like.

The anti-drunk side has repeatedly said that drunk ! = stupid. We're trying to point out how that is a generalisation, because not all drunk people are dangerous to themselves or anybody else. You guys, however, will simply not accept it.

As for "it's stupid because it poisons your body", that's not stupid, that's personal choice. Since when was freedom of choice stupidity?

[Embracer Of Darkness]

sleeping is a natural biological function required for the brain to refresh itself and let the body rest. it would be stupid NOT to sleep. drinking, however, is not a natural function.

Actually, I already cited that animals often like to chow down on rotting fruits, which often contain alcohol. Natural? Yes.

Dogs will also drink anti-freeze because of the sweet taste yet it kills them. Natural? yes. Stupid? Absofuckinglutely.

Where does anti-freeze occur in nature? Hmm? I already said that the animals chew the alcohol out of rotting fruits... Do cans of anti-freeze grow on fucking trees now?

[Embracer Of Darkness]

as far as your other argument, intentionally making yourself stupid in and of itself is an act of stupidity.

There's a difference between making yourself stupid, and making yourself stupid and causing people harm because of it. That difference is called fun, you might want to try it sometime.

not all of us need to turn ourselves into an idiot to have fun.

Again with this bullshit about how we need alcohol to have fun. Please quote where any of us said that? Thought not, shut your hole.

Not all drunk people are dangerous, it's that fucking simple. The way some of you keep demonizing the act of getting drunk is making you sound almost fundie-like.

mind pointing out where i said all drunk people are dangerous? instead of taking cheap pot shots, how about actually refuting my arguments as to why being intoxicated is bad instead of just saying it's fun therefore it's acceptable?

We've already pointed out many times that many people don't act like idiots when they're drunk. What more do you want us to do?

[salm]

Dogs will also drink anti-freeze because of the sweet taste yet it kills them. Natural? yes. Stupid? Absofuckinglutely.

false analogy. drinking anti-freeze is is bad for your body. getting wasted is not bad for your body if you don´t do it on a regular basis. at least it´s not bad on a relevant scale.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

Drinking is enjoyable and mixes well with social gatherings. Maybe you should go out and try it once before calling everyone who drinks an idiot.

Amen to that. Vivé la alcohol!

If you want to hang your hat with a "village idiot" then you just proved my point.

Searching for validity... None.

Shut up. Villiage Idiot or not, I agree with his point.

[General Zod]

as far as your other argument, intentionally making yourself stupid in and of itself is an act of stupidity.

Shut up you stupid little twit. Drinking is enjoyable and mixes well with social gatherings. Maybe you should go out and try it once before calling everyone who drinks an idiot.

if you're not going to bother refuting my argument or add anything shut the fuck up, cunt.

irrelevant. cooking food is not natural. you can´t define somethings´s stupidity degree on it´s naturalness.

are you intentionally being idiotic? read the other part of my argument where i stated that it's a necessary biological function required to function, becoming intoxicated is not.