For all american Citizens!(and those who arent but who also)

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-10-17 02:44pm

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFreeMain.cfm

Safe and Free

Tell John Ashcroft you stand with those who believe that true patriotism welcomes dissent! Click here to make yourself heard by sending a fax to the Attorney General.

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The September 11, 2001 attacks on America changed us many ways. Some of these changes, like a renewed sense of national purpose, are heartening. Yet much else is deeply disturbing, and perhaps most disturbing is the government’s apparent belief that our society cannot be both safe and free.

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Under the guise of the national security, Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Bush Administration granted themselves a wealth of new powers, unleashed the full fury of the Justice Department on new immigrants, set up a vast new domestic spy network, and sought to interrogate 8,000 people on little or no evidence of wrongdoing.

Without an immediate and powerful public outcry on behalf of liberty, the Administration’s calculated attempts to limit our constitutional rights and liberties could change the definition of freedom in America.

Help the ACLU safeguard the American values of freedom and personal liberty embodied in the Constitution. Use the resources on this page to take action now, learn more about Ashcroft and the Bush Administration's continuing attack on civil liberties, and to help spread the word about what the ACLU is doing, and what everyone can do, to fight this unprecedented assult on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-10-17 02:53pm

Political propaganda.

While AG Ashcroft is not a favorite of mine, agressive lawenforcement is not a facist state in the making. Some of the new laws are suspect, but there are plenty of avenues for American citizens to pursue if they are charged with and held by these new laws. If your not a citizen, then you are here with the permission of the goverment and do not have all the rights of an American citizen though the basic set of human rights do apply, you can be deported at anytime because you do not have a right to be here.

As I see it, this is nothing but fear mongering. And before someone says it, yes both sides of the political spectrum imploy it.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-10-17 04:06pm

We're in a war, and such actions have happened in the past. Howver, I tihnk such drastic measures are uneccesary. People are willing to give up freedoms in a time of war, but not like this.

Perhaps it would make the ACLU happy if we detained only non-Arabs.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-10-17 10:42pm

Ashcroft is a fucking idiotic bastard who holds prayer meetings in work(source: Times magazine last year). While some security measures are appropriate, Ashcroft isn't coming up with the right ones. I'll be happier when he's gone.

And yes, I do believe dissent and discourse is essential in a democracy.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-18 12:34am

Ashcroft can fucking bite me.

9 out of 10.

The only one I got wrong was "The Creator". Man, not even I thought Ashcroft was that much of a tool.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-18 01:03am

Mother of fuck. I got a 10 out of 10. I don't know what makes me sicker: the fact that these answers are correct, or the fact that my cynicism is completely justified.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2002-10-18 10:37am

IG-88E wrote:Mother of fuck. I got a 10 out of 10. I don't know what makes me sicker: the fact that these answers are correct, or the fact that my cynicism is completely justified.

Same here, its totally shocking.

Newtonian Fury · Post by **Newtonian Fury** » 2002-10-18 11:20am

It's really frightening what that quiz revealed, wasn't it? Further proof that Ashcroft got Christian fundamentalist ties and that the government is pushing for Soviet-esque treatment of political dissidents.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-18 06:48pm

The United States is at war with fanatical religious terrorists. The least we should be doing is enforcing the immigration and other various laws that we have on the books in order to protect ourselves. We should be deporting all illegal immigrants. We should be vigorously checking the backgrounds of all of the foreigners that want to apply for visas. That is the very least we can do in this situation, which has placed the future of "western civilization" in jeopardy. Times such as these call for an increase in government action. If that means restricting certain freedoms, so be it. If we don't take measures such as these we are inviting more terrorist attacks. The ACLU should also be banned as a treasonous organization.

In case anybody hasn't realized, there are worse things in the world than Christian fundamentalists. Fanatic Muslims would be more than likely to slit your throat than a fundamentalist Christian. if fanatical Muslims were given the opportunity they would kill you in a second. Just ask Daniel Pearl about that. All of you politically correct assholes who don't want to get tough on terrorism need to wake up.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-10-18 10:27pm

weemadando wrote:Ashcroft can fucking bite me.

Careful. You don't know where his mouth has been.

He might even have rabies.

Commander LeoRo wrote: The ACLU should also be banned as a treasonous organization

Black shirt or brown, which for you? Idiot.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-18 10:32pm

The ACLU should also be banned as a treasonous organization.

As you command, my Fuhrer. Shall I begin to exterminate the Jews for you, as well? Shall I have Goecroft whip up some pretext for invading Russia or Iraq?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-18 11:40pm

The ACLU immediately jumped to the defense of terrorists. They have repeatedly attempted to block the efforts of the US government to crack down on terrorism. The United States and the rest of Western Civilization is in a fight for its survival. Now is not the time to be whining over the rights of murderous terrorists.

Since some of you have decided to invoke analogies of Hitler, I have an example of my own. Hitler could have been stopped in his tracks at Munich, but Chamberlain failed to stand up to him. The same is true of Al-Qaida and the other religious terrorists. The only way to stop them is to destroy them or before they destroy us. We know for a fact that fanatical muslim terrorists are in the United States. The politically correct crowd is hampering the investigation of suspected terrorists and is putting the United States at risk. Europe is facing the same danger.

"As you command, my Fuhrer. Shall I begin to exterminate the Jews for you, as well? Shall I have Goecroft whip up some pretext for invading Russia or Iraq"

The jews are facing an even greater threat of destruction at the hands of the terrorists. I am advocating the destruction of the terrorist cells and governments that support terrorism. Incidentally, Iraq is one of those governments. It wouldn't shed any tears to see Saddam removed from power.

Ironwolf · Post by **Ironwolf** » 2002-10-19 12:57am

Just to throw my .02 cents in (being the FNG and all) I'd just like to say that some of the things pointed out in that questionnaire were already in place. For example:

I think one of the questions was to the effect of:
Can police enter your home without a search warrant. Yes they car for a few reasons. One, in a case of immanent destruction of evidence. For example, you videotape killing someone and leave it at your house. If the police have reasonable evidence to believe that tape is there and you will erase it when you get home, they have the right to go in and get it. Same thing goes for plane view. If an officer knocks on your door, you open it and he/she sees a body with ten arrows sticking out of it on the floor, that is also reasonable cause. However, there are still regulations that have to be adhered to for these procedures and STIFF (read possible jail time. I've seen it happen) for those that misuse or abuse these powers.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-10-19 01:09am

9 out of 10.

strange I got that two

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-10-19 02:39am

Last time I checked Padilla is an american citizen. He is currently being held without a shred of evidence save for a threat. He has not been formally charged yet. That is fucked up. just because he MAY be a terrorist doesnt mean he should be stripped otf the legal protections gauranteed to him by the constitution.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-10-19 09:41am

WRONG: That once was true, but in one of several "executive actions" following 9/11 it is now legal for the government to monitor attorney-client conversations without a court order.

What the fuck? What possible justification can there be for that?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-19 10:46am

Probably so if you give away anything incriminating to your attorney, the gov't can use it against you.

Sad, sad state of affairs.

The ACLU immediately jumped to the defense of terrorists. They have repeatedly attempted to block the efforts of the US government to crack down on terrorism. The United States and the rest of Western Civilization is in a fight for its survival. Now is not the time to be whining over the rights of murderous terrorists.

The ACLU has immediately jumped to the defense of our rights as citizens and human beings. A crack down on terrorism should not involve neighbors spying on people, search-and-enter without a warrant(that violates the goddamn Bill of Rights!), or imprisonment without due process. It violates everything this nation stands for.

Since some of you have decided to invoke analogies of Hitler, I have an example of my own. Hitler could have been stopped in his tracks at Munich, but Chamberlain failed to stand up to him. The same is true of Al-Qaida and the other religious terrorists. The only way to stop them is to destroy them or before they destroy us. We know for a fact that fanatical muslim terrorists are in the United States. The politically correct crowd is hampering the investigation of suspected terrorists and is putting the United States at risk. Europe is facing the same danger.

Stopping Hitler didn't involve Chamberlain turning Britian into a police state. If we stop the terrorists the way you want us to, it certainly will turn America into one.