Michael Wong is a hypocrite

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Other considerations with a literary description of a scene as opposed to a photograph are the writer's preconceptions (not unlike the Lusitania example above) and editorial slant for purposes of propaganda.

For example, let us assume that the following are facts:

I walked into the kitchen and saw a big puddle of water on the floor. When I reached for a towel to wipe it up, my girlfriend attacked me with a long stick. Therefore, we know that my girlfriend deliberately made a mess and prevented me from cleaning it up.

The above actually contains two examples. The first example is my interpretation of my girlfriend's attempt to mop the kitchen floor. The other example is obvious only in that I directed you to assume that the following text related facts, rather than assumptions and outright misinformation.

[Darth Wong]

Other considerations with a literary description of a scene as opposed to a photograph are the writer's preconceptions (not unlike the Lusitania example above) and editorial slant for purposes of propaganda.

True. As I said, Franc28 is so wrong so many different levels that it's hard to know where to start (I'm still shaking my head at the thought that he actually thought his idea was good enough for public display).

For example, let us assume that the following are facts:

I walked into the kitchen and saw a big puddle of water on the floor. When I reached for a towel to wipe it up, my girlfriend attacked me with a long stick. Therefore, we know that my girlfriend deliberately made a mess and prevented me from cleaning it up.

We also know that your taste in girlfriends is seriously lacking

The above actually contains two examples. The first example is my interpretation of my girlfriend's attempt to mop the kitchen floor. The other example is obvious only in that I directed you to assume that the following text related facts, rather than assumptions and outright misinformation.

And of course, there's a wealth of information missing. We can't see the size of the puddle, how clean the water is, whether there are any spilled containers, the expression on your girlfriend's face as she hits you with the stick, etc. Everything is being filtered through your point-of-view.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

OT: Trust me, my taste in girlfriends is just fine.

Actually, as I recall, she posted a headshot of herself at SB. I'd have to get her permission to post it here -- if, that is, anyone's interested.

[Cal Wright]

Oh yeah. we're interested alright pal. By the way, I'm surprised you guys haven't locked this thread. I bet the fucktard is just all over himself getting you kids so excited. He has already defeated himself. He claims he beat the dark lord of debating yet doesn't have a record anymore? How convenient. He tells Wong to go back and look, but when we ask him to post it here, he gawks at us like little retard bike riders. Somebody slap that hat wearing donkey fucker before Raoul makes this shit look bad.

[Stormtrooper THX-1138]

And the Skies opened, and the Seven Thunders Thundered , and in the final screaming moments of the bewildered troll's life Darth Wong intoned thus:

"He's a bit like Darkstar that way; he claims to have superior knowledge and superior skills, he claims that I'm the one using all of the cheesy debate tactics, and he has no idea how utterly ludicrous his ideas seem to a normal person."

*nods*

This Franc28 guy does seem to have at least one talent; back where I come from they call it writing checks with your mouth that your ass can't cash.

Calling this guy a moron is an affront to morons.Until we see some proof, buddy, you're just spewing crap.I'm not sure how much good it will do to tell you that now, since the last seven pages have been taken up by people telling you the exact same fucking thing.If you haven't gotten it by now, I don't think you're going to.

*if this board had an an emoticon for "You Jackass" here's where I'd put it.*

[Darth Wong]

Re: "A picture is worth a thousand words":

If we assume a high quality picture (say, 2048x1536x24bit) and roughly 5 bytes per typical English word, a good picture is actually worth roughly 1.9 million words

[Kelly Antilles]

Re: "A picture is worth a thousand words":

If we assume a high quality picture (say, 2048x1536x24bit) and roughly 5 bytes per typical English word, a good picture is actually worth roughly 1.9 million words

Hence exactly why a picture is worth more than something written. You really think someone is going to write a description using a thousand words? It just doesn't give it justice. Plus, it's a biased opinion.

[Ignorant_Boy]

Hmm.... I don't think he's coming back...

[2000AD]

Going by francs logic i have done the following things (honest):

-Had a threesome with britney Spears and Anna Kournakova
-Won every lottery in the world
-Beaten Andy Chambers and jervis Johnson at Warhammer 40,000 and they had an army twice the size of mine.
-Got Darkstar to respond to my rebuttals in 1 sentence.
-Proved that SW could whup The Culture
-Helped Lucas write the origional SW
-Got Darkstar to concede a point.

What's that? You want proof? I'm sorry i can't provide any, your just going to have to take my word for it. You don't believe me? Why not?

[Utsanomiko]

Tee-hee, what a funny Canadian frog. I thought it was just the ones that played Diablo II online that were crazy, but I looks like it's a bit more ubiqutous than I first thought.

It's all very reminicent of Quebec's hatred of the English language, if you ask me.

[Utsanomiko]

Judas Priest, don't tell me our little Fanc leFrog28 has been posting since day one?!

Check out his profile, this thread is the first time he's posted since July.

What a sad, sad, sad little man...

[Andrew J.]

have you seen his website? He's a...*shudder* philosopher.

[Colonel Olrik]

damn.

I should have paid more attention to this forum.

You guys scared him away and I didn't even notice it

[HemlockGrey]

I like this quote from his website:

Please note that government workers, and people who hate freethinking or rational ideas, are not welcome and are rather invited to report here instead.

The link leads to the Nazi home page.

I think this pretty much seals it - 60% of Ayn Rand fans are either morons, pompous assholes, or people who have no fucking clue what they're talking about.

[HemlockGrey]

Heh. According to Franco...


DEATH TO THE POSTAL SERVICE! VICTORY OVER THE HUN!

[Utsanomiko]

have you seen his website? He's a...*shudder* philosopher.

Not a very good one, it seems. His philsophy is all theory, no evidence. I almost felt sympathy for him (on the 'useful links' thread), especially considering Iceberg's posts (the "don't talk down about religion, now the board is going to be nothing but flammatory garbage" stuff. I know I only joined recently, but damn I never remember the board operating in that subjective manner.), but Franc is such a terrible debator. He could've at least backed up his statements about objectivity or retracted them, rather than pressing onward like that.

He makes the term 'objective' sound totally meaningless and undefined, as if he's throwing it around as an appeal to authority. It's stuff like this and the circular slop I'm reading for my Philosophy class that makes me want to retract my claim of being philosophical. Maybe 'analyst' would go better, as I've always preferred to think about how things work, rather than this wishy-washy "what if I'm in the Matrix?" BS. Oh well, irrational frogs won't get me down that easilly.

[Vendetta]

-Beaten Andy Chambers and jervis Johnson at Warhammer 40,000 and they had an army twice the size of mine.

They don't win every tme....

(I've met Andy, several years ago, gave me mny good tips on painting.)

[Darth Wong]

have you seen his website? He's a...*shudder* philosopher.

Not a very good one, it seems. His philsophy is all theory, no evidence.

A surprising number of philosophers are downright hostile toward the scientific method (perhaps because it is the only branch of philosophy which has ever proven useful to anyone, and they're jealous).

I suspect that they enjoy using philobabble to undermine the credibility of the method before gullible onlookers, in the hopes of elevating a more "valid" approach (theirs, of course). This guy is no exception; he is part of the Cult of Rand (anyone who's ever dealt with Ayn Rand fanatics will know what I'm talking about).

He makes the term 'objective' sound totally meaningless and undefined, as if he's throwing it around as an appeal to authority.

He is. If you challenge his definitions of objectivity, he will simply quote Rand.

Oh well, irrational frogs won't get me down that easilly.

Don't get me started on Quebeckers. You wouldn't believe how much money they suck out of our federal government. Try to imagine the biggest, whiniest special interest group you can possibly conceive of. Now, imagine 7 million of them.

[Master of Ossus]

Hmm.... I don't think he's coming back...

Good riddance.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Other considerations with a literary description of a scene as opposed to a photograph are the writer's preconceptions (not unlike the Lusitania example above) and editorial slant for purposes of propaganda.

For example, let us assume that the following are facts:

I walked into the kitchen and saw a big puddle of water on the floor. When I reached for a towel to wipe it up, my girlfriend attacked me with a long stick. Therefore, we know that my girlfriend deliberately made a mess and prevented me from cleaning it up.

The above actually contains two examples. The first example is my interpretation of my girlfriend's attempt to mop the kitchen floor. The other example is obvious only in that I directed you to assume that the following text related facts, rather than assumptions and outright misinformation.

I meant to post the following last night, but couldn't get back to it. As you all know, I like to occasionally play Devil's Advocate, and I will now do so with my own statement. (You! In the back! Sit down and stop snickering!)

Franc28's claim that a literary description of a scene is as valid as a filmed scene may have some validity, IF -- and that's a bif "if" -- he is referring to fiction. Allow me to give you my reasoning:

As an author, if I write a scene in a novel, I am not only directing the depiction of imaginary events, by virtue of authorial omnipotence, I am directing the events themselves. As the author, I have complete control of everyone and everything in my fictional universe. Put another way: If I don't write it, it don't happen. Now suppose I (or someone authorized by me) create a film adaptation of that scene. Depending on how closely the filmed scene matches the written source material, the filmed scene will have only as much validity as its written source -- it can potentially have less validity if written by someone other than the original author in a way that is not true to the original story.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Don't you wish sometimes that Ayn Rand was never born? I sure do.

I have an uncle on my mother's side who really got into Rand about 30 years ago. Unfortunately, it was also about 10 years after the whole Rand Movement died. For several years, Rand was all he would talk about.

He was like that with almost all of his hobbies. Get really into something that often had already fallen out of the Fad stage, and for several years that's all he would talk about. My parents say most people dreaded talking to him at parties and get-togethers because it was so boring hearing him go on and on about whatever hobby he had. In the late 70s it was pool.

Anyway... Mike: Are those Pseudo-Frogs in Quebec really so arrogant about French that they've beaten people for speaking English in public? We've driven through Ontario (nice country-side, BTW) so I know that like virtually everything has to printed in both French and English. Was the entire province of Quebec colonised by Parisians or what?

[Darth Wong]

Now suppose I (or someone authorized by me) create a film adaptation of that scene. Depending on how closely the filmed scene matches the written source material, the filmed scene will have only as much validity as its written source -- it can potentially have less validity if written by someone other than the original author in a way that is not true to the original story.

Your attempt to play Devil's Advocate notwithstanding, a film adaptation of a scene that originally existed only as literature is merely a "dramatic re-enactment". That's a special case.

To suspend disbelief for a movie is to presume that there is some objective reality that we are seeing. To suspend disbelief for a piece of literature is to presume that there is some objective reality that the author is describing, so we are getting a subjective description of an imaginary objective reality. In the absence of some pre-set hierarchy (eg- your example of a film adaptation of a pre-existing book), you are getting a better view of the imaginary "objective reality" of the fictional universe in question through film than a written description. The rules are the same as they would be in real life.

[Patrick Degan]

This guy is no exception; he is part of the Cult of Rand (anyone who's ever dealt with Ayn Rand fanatics will know what I'm talking about).

Randroids.

[Darth Wong]

Don't you wish sometimes that Ayn Rand was never born? I sure do.

I also wish that people would stop assuming I like Rand simply because I'm an atheist. Being an atheist does not make you a member of some kind of giant brotherhood; I am under no obligation to agree with someone just because they happen to be atheist.

I have an uncle on my mother's side who really got into Rand about 30 years ago. Unfortunately, it was also about 10 years after the whole Rand Movement died. For several years, Rand was all he would talk about.

Rand gives its followers a puffed-up sense of intellectual superiority over others (not earned, mind you, but that's what makes it so enticing for them; they don't have to work for it). They also tend to have a siege mentality, which is also common among cults.

Anyway... Mike: Are those Pseudo-Frogs in Quebec really so arrogant about French that they've beaten people for speaking English in public?

No, but shopkeepers have been charged for having non-French language on their signs. Believe it or not, Chinese-food restaurants are required by law not to use Chinese in their signs or menus, unless it is dwarfed by much larger and more prominent French! Who the fuck expects to go to a Chinese restaurant and not see Chinese writing? And they spend money on public-education campaigns warning people about the dangers of Anglais-words like "hot dog". Bunch of lunatics.

We've driven through Ontario (nice country-side, BTW) so I know that like virtually everything has to printed in both French and English.

Yes. We bend over backwards to accomodate them, and still they whine.

Was the entire province of Quebec colonised by Parisians or what?

As I alluded to previously, take a typical whiny special-interest group and give them delusions of statehood, and you'll have Quebec.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Now suppose I (or someone authorized by me) create a film adaptation of that scene. Depending on how closely the filmed scene matches the written source material, the filmed scene will have only as much validity as its written source -- it can potentially have less validity if written by someone other than the original author in a way that is not true to the original story.

Your attempt to play Devil's Advocate notwithstanding, a film adaptation of a scene that originally existed only as literature is merely a "dramatic re-enactment". That's a special case.

To suspend disbelief for a movie is to presume that there is some objective reality that we are seeing. To suspend disbelief for a piece of literature is to presume that there is some objective reality that the author is describing, so we are getting a subjective description of an imaginary objective reality. In the absence of some pre-set hierarchy (eg- your example of a film adaptation of a pre-existing book), you are getting a better view of the imaginary "objective reality" of the fictional universe in question through film than a written description. The rules are the same as they would be in real life.

Ah. Understood.