Federation shuttle craft vs TIE fighter

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-03-21 08:53am

A Federation shuttle craft fights a standard TIE fighter. Who wins ?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-03-21 09:03am

Isn't this a worse variation of this thread?

Does the Federation shuttle craft have the ability to withstand 1 KT guns?

If so, it has a chance, if not...it dies within seconds on approach for the TIE.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-03-21 09:15am

Well a Delta Flyer does not stand a chance against a shielded space superiority starfighter like the X-Wing. So to makes things fair I considered a Shuttle vs unshielded standard TIE match.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-03-21 11:32am

The Fed shuttle still dies, because the TIE has much more firepower and manuverability than the shuttle.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-21 11:39am

Fed shuttles are remarkably durable, but they simply aren't maneuverable enough to evade the TIE or get any shots in. So the TIE wins eventually.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-21 12:25pm

This depends on which shuttlecraft you pit the Tie against. Newer shuttle designs have significantly improved phaser coverage. Not only can they strike targets in the forward arcs, they can strike them on side and top/bottom arcs.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-03-21 01:33pm

Is it really fair to pit a space van verses a Starfighter?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-03-21 04:47pm

seeing that most federation shuttles aren't even equipped with warp drive, and their maneuvering is incredibly shitty, the TIE wins by virtue of speed and maneuverability alone. a few pot shots with its turbolasers and the shuttle is cooked.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-21 04:58pm

Darth_Zod wrote:seeing that most federation shuttles aren't even equipped with warp drive, and their maneuvering is incredibly shitty, the TIE wins by virtue of speed and maneuverability alone. a few pot shots with its turbolasers and the shuttle is cooked.

Incorrect on almost every count. All TNG+ era shuttles carry warp drive. We have seen no indication the manufactur is shitty and indeed on several ocassions have noticed the shuttles survive main weapon strikes by other capital ships. Last of all we have seen several Shuttles are indeed capable of reasonably decent manueverability (reference Insurrection).

Might want to learn a little about the subject before you spout BS.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-03-21 05:09pm

the era of shuttlecraft wasn't really specified. plus not all TNG shuttles had warp. as i recall the shuttle captain picard and wesley took when wesley was taking his starfleet entrance exams was impulse driven and no warp available. there have also been numerous instances of shuttles being rendered harmless by simple tractor beams, iirc.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-03-21 05:30pm

Darth_Zod wrote:the era of shuttlecraft wasn't really specified. plus not all TNG shuttles had warp.

That's true. The Tie would easily slaughter a Type F shuttle, but would have problems against a Type 9.

So what shuttle is the Tie/ln up against?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-03-21 05:41pm

Darth_Zod wrote:the era of shuttlecraft wasn't really specified. plus not all TNG shuttles had warp. as i recall the shuttle captain picard and wesley took when wesley was taking his starfleet entrance exams was impulse driven and no warp available. there have also been numerous instances of shuttles being rendered harmless by simple tractor beams, iirc.

Of couse a shuttle would never be able to compete with the power output of a capitol ship! Once grabbed by the tractor beam what is it supposted to do?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-03-21 08:26pm

Alyeska wrote:
Darth_Zod wrote:seeing that most federation shuttles aren't even equipped with warp drive, and their maneuvering is incredibly shitty, the TIE wins by virtue of speed and maneuverability alone. a few pot shots with its turbolasers and the shuttle is cooked.
Incorrect on almost every count. All TNG+ era shuttles carry warp drive. We have seen no indication the manufactur is shitty and indeed on several ocassions have noticed the shuttles survive main weapon strikes by other capital ships. Last of all we have seen several Shuttles are indeed capable of reasonably decent manueverability (reference Insurrection).

Might want to learn a little about the subject before you spout BS.

Not to mention I certainly don't remember any variation of TIE being equipped with turbolasers....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-21 09:10pm

Alyeska wrote:Incorrect on almost every count. All TNG+ era shuttles carry warp drive.

He might be referring to the TM, although that is no longer considered official (or more precisely, it has been revealed that there's no such thing as an "official" quasi-canon status for printed material, except for those two Voyager novels ... *gag, puke*). The TM did state that the E-D carried some non-warp capable shuttles, so he did not necessarily pull that idea out of thin air.

Ubiquitous · Post by **Ubiquitous** » 2004-03-21 09:34pm

If the TIE performs on a par with Vader's in ANH during the trench chase, then I don't think the poor shuttle evasion will be much of a factor. Vader struggled to get a target lock from a few KM with the X-Wing hardly evading at all. A typical Federation tactic.

On a related matter ... why didn't Vader just manually fire at Luke's X Wing in ANH? Talk about dumb tactics ... way to lose 6 months of the Empire's materials...

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-03-21 09:38pm

There was mega jamming going on in the trench. And did you not see the speed at which the TIEs were going? I would like to see a Fed shuttle try and go faster then that.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-21 09:38pm

Darth Wong wrote:He might be referring to the TM, although that is no longer considered official (or more precisely, it has been revealed that there's no such thing as an "official" quasi-canon status for printed material, except for those two Voyager novels ... *gag, puke*). The TM did state that the E-D carried some non-warp capable shuttles, so he did not necessarily pull that idea out of thin air.

I believe the TM was referring to shuttlecraft, and called them such.

If the TIE performs on a par with Vader's in ANH during the trench chase, then I don't think the poor shuttle evasion will be much of a factor. Vader struggled to get a target lock from a few KM with the X-Wing hardly evading at all. A typical Federation tactic.

The jamming explicitly stated to be in use during the battle might have something to do with that, don't you think?

Do you even try to think, or do you like to troll now and then?

On a related matter ... why didn't Vader just manually fire at Luke's X Wing in ANH? Talk about dumb tactics ... way to lose 6 months of the Empire's materials...

Did you see any fixed gunsights in the TIE?

Though for all we know he did fire manually to no avail. There were lots of shots missing, you know.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2004-03-21 09:40pm

ALI_G wrote:If the TIE performs on a par with Vader's in ANH during the trench chase, then I don't think the poor shuttle evasion will be much of a factor. Vader struggled to get a target lock from a few KM with the X-Wing hardly evading at all. A typical Federation tactic.

I doubt the shuttlecraft will have the advantage of the Death Star's jamming and its own ECM equipment.

On a related matter ... why didn't Vader just manually fire at Luke's X Wing in ANH? Talk about dumb tactics ... way to lose 6 months of the Empire's materials...

Seeing it is only a few meters ahead ... but one should not discount the power of Tunnel Vision and established Tactics in a fight.

By the way, if the X-Wing is really a few km ahead, shooting it manually would prove a bit challenging.

Maybe if Vader just "trusted his feelings..."

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-03-21 09:52pm

Actualy, I'm not sure. We've seen Fed shuttles take hits from capital ships before. Not many but some and survive. So a trek shuttle can withstand a few KT hits.

The weapons on a shuttle is the real question. Has anyone done calc's on a fed shuttle phaser? Now a Tie is unshielded or atleast not combat shielded so I don't think it would take too much of a hit to kill it but its still a question on how much the Fed shuttle phaser output is.

I'll give the manuverability to the Tie and the speed as well as the firepower but the shields are the wild card here. The feddie shuttle shouldn't need KT level firepower to destroy an unshielded fighter and its a race to see if the feddie shields can withstand the KT firepower long enough to allow the phasers to hit the Tie.

I don't know. Right now I'm a fence sitter on the issue.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-21 09:54pm

If we assume Shuttlecraft weaponry is reasonably powerful enough to penetrate its own shielding, this should be sufficent to in the very least damage an unshielded tie.

Ubiquitous · Post by **Ubiquitous** » 2004-03-21 10:24pm

Howedar wrote:The jamming explicitly stated to be in use during the battle might have something to do with that, don't you think?

Do you even try to think, or do you like to troll now and then?

This opens up the debate to Federation jamming, and then Empire ECCM, and then Federation ECCM ... excuse me if I don't get involved in this potentially endless sideshow.

Regardless, Vader could not lock onto a fighter from at most a few KM's [although in reality, probably closer to 1 KM maximum]. Doubtlessly, jamming was involved. Was jamming involved in the second TIE battle against the MF? I may be wrong as I don't have the material with me, but the performance of the TIE weapons in that battle against admittedly an evading enemy was not too hot.

Did you see any fixed gunsights in the TIE?

Though for all we know he did fire manually to no avail. There were lots of shots missing, you know.

Without the material to hand, I don't know whether there were fixed gunsights or not. Regardless, with the fate of the DS in his hands, one would expect DV to be testing the heatsinks of the TIE's weapons to the max in a bid to avert the loss of a major Imperial asset. Maybe the TIE isn't capable of continuous firing in the manner I mention? Although I would put it down to Vader's arrogance rather than blame the craft.

BTW, recently I read a post by yourself citing that you would no longer be flaming people in debates unless they flame you first. If you want to lable me a troll and flame me, then you best do so with more supporting evidence and retract your previous statement that you are now going to be mature rather than pre-empatively flame people for no reason.

Anyway ... we need to know what shuttlecraft we are using in this debate. Is it a Type 9 [Voyager] craft, or an older type [or newer, if such a craft exists?]. There is quite a large difference between TNG and VOY shuttles.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-22 12:31am

ALI_G wrote:This opens up the debate to Federation jamming, and then Empire ECCM, and then Federation ECCM ... excuse me if I don't get involved in this potentially endless sideshow.

Oh, it's nothing of the sort.

If you can provide evidence, any evidence, of Federation jamming and ECM equipment then by all means provide it. The Wars side has done the same, I ask no more of you.

Regardless, Vader could not lock onto a fighter from at most a few KM's [although in reality, probably closer to 1 KM maximum]. Doubtlessly, jamming was involved. Was jamming involved in the second TIE battle against the MF? I may be wrong as I don't have the material with me, but the performance of the TIE weapons in that battle against admittedly an evading enemy was not too hot.

TIEs have jammers, we know that. I very much doubt the MF is without them, considering Solo cobbled on every piece of military equipment he could find, from quad lasers to extra shielding to frigging hull plating from a crashed Carrack (IIRC).

Without the material to hand, I don't know whether there were fixed gunsights or not. Regardless, with the fate of the DS in his hands, one would expect DV to be testing the heatsinks of the TIE's weapons to the max in a bid to avert the loss of a major Imperial asset. Maybe the TIE isn't capable of continuous firing in the manner I mention? Although I would put it down to Vader's arrogance rather than blame the craft.

How do you know he wasn't pushing the limits?

I stand by my previous comment: you ask nothing but pointless questions to which there can be no answer, but which can start long pointless flaming arguments. In my book, that makes you a person who trolls.

BTW, recently I read a post by yourself citing that you would no longer be flaming people in debates unless they flame you first. If you want to lable me a troll and flame me, then you best do so with more supporting evidence and retract your previous statement that you are now going to be mature rather than pre-empatively flame people for no reason.

You want to see me flame? This is merely pointing out the truth.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-22 12:55am

TWOK had an example of the Reliant jamming communications at Regula Space Lab

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-03-22 01:18am

Alyeska wrote:If we assume Shuttlecraft weaponry is reasonably powerful enough to penetrate its own shielding, this should be sufficent to in the very least damage an unshielded tie.

TIEs are fragile craft. Shuttle craft phasers should be able to destroy it easily if they can hit it.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-03-22 09:39am

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Incorrect on almost every count. All TNG+ era shuttles carry warp drive.
He might be referring to the TM, although that is no longer considered official (or more precisely, it has been revealed that there's no such thing as an "official" quasi-canon status for printed material, except for those two Voyager novels ... *gag, puke*). The TM did state that the E-D carried some non-warp capable shuttles, so he did not necessarily pull that idea out of thin air.

well, there was the TM. plus i was also thinking of the episode where picard and wesley went to the starbase so crusher could do his entry exams, like i mentioned earlier. i seem to recall their trip took some time, which, if the shuttle was equipped with warp, wouldn't have been nearly as long. admittedly it's been awhile since i've seen the episode, so i could be mistaking low level warp for impulse power.