Torpedoes

[Tolya]

I have a question for Sea Skimmer here (or any other who is competent in Naval weapons).

Can Mk46/50 torpedo dropped from a plane be programmed to keep a straight course?
For example, I want the torpedo to run for 1000 feet at the course 236. Can I program the torpedo to do that? Before launching?
And how does a torpedo gyroscope work?

[General Zod]

aren't torpedoes normally fired from naval vessels, mainly submarines? why would you release one from a plane?

[Aaron]

Torpedo's are typically carried by naval patrol planes and anti-submarine helicopters. Airborne torpedos are typically carried to engage submarines.

[Tolya]

Yeah, for ASW/ASUW missions. Dropped from heli's, such as SH60 Seahawks.

Now, can anyone answer the question at hand?

[Aaron]

Yeah, for ASW/ASUW missions. Dropped from heli's, such as SH60 Seahawks.

Now, can anyone answer the question at hand?

I don't see why not. But why would you want to, that defeats the purpose of having a homing torpedo.

[Tolya]

Its a theoretical problem, which we discussed on IRC.

We need to sink a ship which is standing in a port, using an air-dropped torpedo. situation is shown below. Using Mk46/50 torpedo.

[Sea Skimmer]

I have a question for Sea Skimmer here (or any other who is competent in Naval weapons).

Can Mk46/50 torpedo dropped from a plane be programmed to keep a straight course?
For example, I want the torpedo to run for 1000 feet at the course 236. Can I program the torpedo to do that? Before launching?

Given effort you could modify the torpedoes to do this (this would be much easier to do to the modern Mk.50). However out of the box I'm not sure they can be as specific as what your wanting, generally you just shoot them down a relative bearing and the torpedo then begins turning looking for a target. Or in the case of air launch the torpedo plunges to a preset depth and then begins its acquisition circling. Torpedos don't have methods of mesuring distance.

And how does a torpedo gyroscope work?

The same way a normal gyroscope works, the torpedo uses it as a referance point to tell how far it should turn to reach whatever bearing it's suppose to reach.

[Aaron]

Its a theoretical problem, which we discussed on IRC.

We need to sink a ship which is standing in a port, using an air-dropped torpedo. situation is shown below. Using Mk46/50 torpedo.

Is that a tanker or another type of large civvie ship? If so the Mk 46/50 probably won't sink it due to it's small warhead. THe warhead is only 100 pounds.

Good info on the Mk 46/50 series can be found here:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-50.htm

[PeZook]

Its a theoretical problem, which we discussed on IRC.

We need to sink a ship which is standing in a port, using an air-dropped torpedo. situation is shown below. Using Mk46/50 torpedo.

http://pezook.mdk.com.pl/liner2.jpg

Is that a tanker or another type of large civvie ship? If so the Mk 46/50 probably won't sink it due to it's small warhead. THe warhead is only 100 pounds.

If it hits, it may damage the thing enough to force it to stay in port. The objective is to make the ship either to stay in port, or sink it.

And it's a dock ship for deep-sea research subs.

[Sea Skimmer]

Its a theoretical problem, which we discussed on IRC.

We need to sink a ship which is standing in a port, using an air-dropped torpedo. situation is shown below. Using Mk46/50 torpedo.

Why not just bomb it? PGM's aimed at the waterline will be quite effective, so would iron bombs or rockets or destructor type mines. Anything which can haul torpedoes could also carry bombs or sufficiently large missiles. Large caliber unguided rockets would work for that matter, if burning the thing was as acceptable as sending to the bottom.

A small ASW torpedo is certainly the worst weapon for the job, most any civilian merchant ship ought to have enough pumping capability to save its self from the hole blown by a 95-pound warhead, and the flooding rate would be rather slow allowing plenty of time to call for help.

On top of that, the water that thing is anchored in is likely too shallow for an ASW torpedo to work, they drop pretty much straight down and plunge to a considerable depth when air launched.

[Aaron]

Where theres no doubt that it will damage the ship enough to force it to stay in port. I just doubt that it'll sink her.

[PeZook]

Why not just bomb it? PGM's aimed at the waterline will be quite effective, so would iron bombs or rockets or destructor type mines. Anything which can haul torpedoes could also carry bombs or sufficiently large missiles. Large caliber unguided rockets would work for that matter, if burning the thing was as acceptable as sending to the bottom.

Well, the theoretical situation is as follows:

The port is on an island in the middle of nowhere. There's a guy (James-Bond style bad guy, with his own personal army, and even helicopter gunships) holed up on the island, who the US wants pretty bad. They sent an LSD, the Ashland, in order to apprehend the guy.

The problem is, the captain screwed up really bad, the LSD got too close to shore and was attacked by two gunships. They popped out from behind a large hill, launched missiles, one hit the helicopters that were being prepared for takeoff on the flight deck. Both gunships were shot down, of course, but all the fuel and ordnance made the flight deck unusable.

Right afterwards, a UAV launched earlier spots this freighter in port, and since there are no other US Navy ships around (another screw-up), it's feared the bad guy may escape on board. So, they need to keep it in the harbor without helicopters, or a SEAL team to blow the thing up.

The torpedo was just one highly divergent part of the IRC debate, since the LSD doesn't carry any torpedoes

A small ASW torpedo is certainly the worst weapon for the job, most any civilian merchant ship ought to have enough pumping capability to save its self from the hole blown by a 95-pound warhead, and the flooding rate would be rather slow allowing plenty of time to call for help.

What would you recommend then? The situation is pretty edgy, tactically speaking...

[Aaron]

I'd recommend an anti-ship missile like the Harpoon or the helicopter launched Penguin. The best bet is probably to get a US submarine close to the island and launch a harpoon or a Mk 48 torpedo at the ship.

Either that or use an airstrike with an F-117 or even a B-2 with PGMs would get the job done.

[Tolya]

Problem is, the only thing we have to stop the freighter is what is aboard the LSD.

No extra's like bombers, Tomahawks, tanks etc.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well, the theoretical situation is as follows:

The port is on an island in the middle of nowhere. There's a guy (James-Bond style bad guy, with his own personal army, and even helicopter gunships) holed up on the island, who the US wants pretty bad. They sent an LSD, the Ashland, in order to apprehend the guy.

The problem is, the captain screwed up really bad, the LSD got too close to shore and was attacked by two gunships. They popped out from behind a large hill, launched missiles, one hit the helicopters that were being prepared for takeoff on the flight deck. Both gunships were shot down, of course, but all the fuel and ordnance made the flight deck unusable.

Right afterwards, a UAV launched earlier spots this freighter in port, and since there are no other US Navy ships around (another screw-up), it's feared the bad guy may escape on board. So, they need to keep it in the harbor without helicopters, or a SEAL team to blow the thing up.

The torpedo was just one highly divergent part of the IRC debate, since the LSD doesn't carry any torpedoes

Your scenario is pretty damn contrived to say the least. An unescorted ship without any form of fire or air support capability to assault a defended location with an inept captain? Its simply stupid. If we want this guy really bad we'd at least send a full ARG.

What would you recommend then? The situation is pretty edgy, tactically speaking...

Attacking the island is impossible already, there's no option but AAV's crawling up the beach without any cover of any form, and that's suicidal though so is the whole mission. Ashland needs to back off and call home for help. A submarine support ship isn't going to be getting away at any speed, and heavy bombers could arrive within a day. They'd easily destroy the ship with a hail of missiles and or bombs and then go on to flatten the islands defenses.

That's what we'd do even with the ARG for that matter, expend airstrikes and bombs rather then the lives of Marines.

[Aaron]

Problem is, the only thing we have to stop the freighter is what is aboard the LSD.

No extra's like bombers, Tomahawks, tanks etc.

Well if all you have is the LSD with no possibility of support, then sail the LSD into the harbour and ram the ship.

[PeZook]

Your scenario is pretty damn contrived to say the least. An unescorted ship without any form of fire or air support capability to assault a defended location with an inept captain? Its simply stupid. If we want this guy really bad we'd at least send a full ARG.

Heh...you're right. The scenario IS stupidly convoluted, but then again - the backstory was just a pretty irrelevant cover for a thought-excercise

[Aaron]

Another option may be to sail within gun range and engage the target with the Ashlands 25mm guns. They won't destroy the ship but they should render the pilot house unusable.

[phongn]

Obviously, we need to send in the proposed 70 kton LHD(R) to do the job.

[Sea Skimmer]

Another option may be to sail within gun range and engage the target with the Ashlands 25mm guns. They won't destroy the ship but they should render the pilot house unusable.

That would work, if not for the fact that the target is in a port defended by a force that can muster helicopter gunships, logically they can also field artillery, mortars, rockets and other such weapons, which will make life hell for an LPD that comes close enough to use its 25 and or 20mm guns (the latest Phalanx mounts can shoot at surface targets via radar or a bolted on optics system.

[Rogue 9]

Geez, a Mk 84 2,000 pound dumb bomb would do the trick better, and it costs less than a guided torpedo. The U.S. Navy would never, ever send an LPD in alone to take on that kind of force. Its not like the Most Powerful Navy in the World (tm) doesn't have warships to spare for something like this.