StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted: **2007-06-27 01:30pm**

Darth Wong wrote:<snip>

Forgive me for being a kid.

Posted: **2007-06-27 01:40pm**

Stormbringer wrote: PA-THETIC!

He's a goddamned celebrity living in a gated fucking mansion. Is it really so hard to believe under the circumstances that he wasn't interfered with? It certainly is enough for the police and most other human beings. And your supposition isn't nearly enough to overturn the police investigation.

And these are exactly the people whose lives can get to this point more easily, as most will never have access to them or see any psychiatric signs.

See, this is why it's better to have fictional heroes. At least when they let you down, you can blame the writers.

Posted: **2007-06-27 01:45pm**

Superman wrote:And these are exactly the people whose lives can get to this point more easily, as most will never have access to them or see any psychiatric signs.

Not to mention the fact that the average entertainment industry celebrity is, shall we say, not from the educated class. You take people with little or no education whose career aspirations involve using their bodies rather than their brains, and you give them overnight fame and fortune ... you're asking for trouble. Throw in a culture of permissiveness for drug abuse and easy access to people who are already suppliers for illegal steroids, and, well ...

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6964262

Vince McMahon wants you to think about the stars of today and tomorrow, not the cemetery of steroid-fueled bodies his "sport" has helped put in the ground. But on the grim occasion of the deaths of Nancy and Daniel and Chris Benoit, let's remember some of the other pro wrestlers who died before their time.

# Ravishing Rick Rude — Died at 40 of an apparent heart attack in 1999, a bottle of prescription pills for his bad back at his side. The autopsy report said he died of "mixed medications." Rude was an admitted user of anabolic steroids.

# Louis Mucciolo, a.k.a, Louie Spicolli — Died in 1998 at age 27 when he suffocated on his own vomit after ingesting massive amounts of Soma and alcohol. Investigators also found an empty vial of testosterone, pain pills and an anti-anxiety drug at the scene.

# Brian Pillman — An admitted user of steroids, he died of a heart attack at age 35 in 1997 on the morning of WWF's In Your House: Badd Blood pay-per-view event.

# Rick "the Renegade" Williams — Died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at age 33 after being released from his World Championship Wrestling contract in 1999.

# "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig — Found dead of a cocaine overdose at age 44 in his motel room on April 10, 2003, the morning of a match. Hennig's father maintained that steroids and painkillers contributed to his death.

# Rodney "Yokozuna" Anoa'i — Died of a heart attack in 2002 at 34.

# Davey Boy Smith, "The British Bulldog" — Died of a heart attack at age 39 on May 17, 2002. An autopsy report indicated that past steroid use had likely played a part in his death.

# Michael "Road Warrior Hawk" Hegstrand — An admitted steroid user, he died of a heart attack at age 46 in 2003.

# Michael Lockwood, "Crash Holly" — In 2003, at the age of 32, he choked to death on his own vomit after ingesting 90 painkiller pills.

# Jerry Tuite, "The Wall" a.k.a. "Malice" — Died at age 36 in 2003 of an apparent heart attack in his hotel room.

# Raymond "Hercules" Hernandez — Dead of heart failure in 2004 at age 47.

# Ray "The Big Boss Man" Traylor — Found dead of a heart attack in 2004 at age 42.

# Eddie Guerrero — After a long battle with painkillers, he was found dead of a heart attack by his nephew in his hotel room at age 38. The first person his nephew reportedly called was Guerrero's best friend, Chris Benoit.

# Chris Candido — Died in 2005 at age 33 from a blood clot after breaking his tibia and fibula and dislocating his ankle in a pay-per-view event.

# Owen Hart — Fell to his death at age 34 in 1999 when the rigging that was lowering him into the ring malfunctioned.

And then there's the story of the Von Erich wrestling family.

Wrestling patriarch Fritz Von Erich, nee Jack Adkisson, had five wrestling sons: Kevin, David, Kerry, Mike and Chris.

David died in a hotel room in Tokyo at the age of 25 in 1984 just as he was embarking on a three-week pro wrestling tour of Japan. The official cause of death was acute enteritis, severe inflammation of the intestines.

Three years later, Mike committed suicide by overdosing on the tranquilizer Placidyl at the age of 23. After David's death, Mike had suffered a series of setbacks including a serious shoulder injury that had left him severely depressed.

Devastated by the deaths of his older brothers and frustrated by his own limitations as a wrestler, the youngest and smallest brother, Chris, shot himself to death at the age of 21 in 1991.

Two years later, Kerry, who had battled a long addiction to painkillers, died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at the age of 33, leaving eldest brother Kevin as the only survivor of the sport that had defined his family.

And now Chris Benoit, his wife and son have been added to the long, unbearably sad list of victims claimed, in part, by the brutal chemical calculus that is professional wrestling.

Posted: **2007-06-27 01:58pm**

Is it just me, or do both Rick Williams, Owen Hart, and Chris Candido's deaths look "clean"? That is to say, based on the deaths, no direct relation to steroid use. (Yokozuna's... that wasn't steroids IIRC but more massive obesity.)

Posted: **2007-06-27 01:59pm**

I heard on Fox News yesterday that SIXTY pro wrestlers have died young in the past 10 years. On CNN, they interviewed wrestler Brian Christopher ("Grandmaster Sexay" in the WWF a few years ago) about Benoit and the heavy drug/steroid use in pro wrestling. Christopher had already lost ELEVEN wrestler friends of his, but he insisted that there wasn't a major problem and that eleven wasn't all that much since he "had a lot of friends" (paraphrasing). He was in such fucking denial.

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:01pm**

I wouldn't be a massive problem to you if you where on the wrong side of the line. Alcoholics don't think they have a problem either.

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:05pm**

Edward Yee wrote:Is it just me, or do both Rick Williams, Owen Hart, and Chris Candido's deaths look "clean"? That is to say, based on the deaths, no direct relation to steroid use. (Yokozuna's... that wasn't steroids IIRC but more massive obesity.)

I've said this before, but wrestlers are screwed up people. I know because I was one, spent a lot of time with them, I'm screwed up... but at least I'm getting treatment.

To further D. Wong's point about most of them being less than educated, I remember that there was a wrestler who had just started, and the fact that this guy had a university degree somehow became known. He was hammered by all the wrestlers there relentlessly... to all of us, he was more like an outsider. I think he may have actually quit because of that.

And by the way, what's with people who feel the need to throw in the 'yeah, but...?' You say this guy was a piece of shit, and the fanboys feel the need to say something like 'yeah, but he was great for wrestling!' Can you honestly not see that this is a goddamned show, complete with actors who play roles?

I'm a big fan of Elvis, but I don't deny the fact that he was an addict who left a young daughter with no dad.
"Elvis died taking a crap!"
"Yeah, but look what he did in music..."
"Oh, right.. I stand corrected..."

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:21pm**

I'm curious, with the apparent rampant steroid use among pro baseball players why aren't we seeing weird behavior and deaths like the ones in wrestling? Is there an added factor that makes steroid use so deadly in pro wrestling?

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:28pm**

Wrestlers tend to do a bunch of other drugs in addition to the steroids, and chances are they're doing the roids at much higher doses than baseball players. A lot of wrestlers have painkiller addictions and also pop tranqualizers, sleeping pills, and who knows what else. Their drug use is probably a lot more like NFL drug use, except it goes on year round year after year.

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:29pm**

Stravo wrote:I'm curious, with the apparent rampant steroid use among pro baseball players why aren't we seeing weird behavior and deaths like the ones in wrestling? Is there an added factor that makes steroid use so deadly in pro wrestling?

Heavier work load on the WWE circuit, each wrestler is on the road 300 days a year, or more.

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:34pm**

Stravo wrote:I'm curious, with the apparent rampant steroid use among pro baseball players why aren't we seeing weird behavior and deaths like the ones in wrestling? Is there an added factor that makes steroid use so deadly in pro wrestling?

They're taking huge dosages, and it's literally 100% of them, not just the heavy hitters like it is in baseball.

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:38pm**

I'm aware of wrestling's involvement re: the other three I mentioned, but I thought that Candido's was an unfortunate medical circumstance.

To further D. Wong's point about most of them being less than educated, I remember that there was a wrestler who had just started, and the fact that this guy had a university degree somehow became known. He was hammered by all the wrestlers there relentlessly... to all of us, he was more like an outsider. I think he may have actually quit because of that.

Hmm... I'm assuming not WWE's Christopher Nowinski, correct?

I'm guessing (hoping?) Bryan Danielson's one of the good ones; heard he's going to college in his off-time.

As for the schedule, WWE isn't 24/7, but closer than any other promotion I know even with TV alone; the "brand extension" (nominally 1 day/week per brand discounting PPVs and house shows) didn't really help due to how obviously that eroded.

Posted: **2007-06-27 02:59pm**

Stravo wrote:I'm curious, with the apparent rampant steroid use among pro baseball players why aren't we seeing weird behavior and deaths like the ones in wrestling? Is there an added factor that makes steroid use so deadly in pro wrestling?

Personally I think there are three big reasons:

1) Steroids combined with painkillers. The fact that these guys are essentially stuntmen and get banged up alot means that on top of steroids they're often on powerful painkillers. That's a pretty lethal combination that doesn't happen nearly as often in baseball or football.

2) More dollars are spent on medical care. If you look at the baseball players especially they're dosed up plenty but often with a team of physicians attending them which makes inadvertent fuck ups some what less likely. It also means that the truly bizarre and outrageous conduct of some professional wrestlers would get caught much sooner.

3) The disparity in respectability between wrestling and baseball or football. I'm sure Verilon will jump down my throat but wrestling is still viewed as low-brow, redneck and marginal and not with out some justification. Sports like baseball and football are a ritual to much of America where there are more people that may take offense. Hence MLB and the NFL rein in behavior or expel players that go too far; organizations like the WWE don't do anything unless it's much worse.

Posted: **2007-06-27 03:02pm**

Stravo wrote:I'm curious, with the apparent rampant steroid use among pro baseball players why aren't we seeing weird behavior and deaths like the ones in wrestling? Is there an added factor that makes steroid use so deadly in pro wrestling?

Think of it this way. In baseball, have you have two professional teams competing to win. The government likes the idea of keeping things on an even keel (*cough* *cough* Yankees *cough*), so you have a Congressional body regulating an agency that employs probably less than a thousand people.

Professional wrestling is more like Hollywood. You have two people, basically actors, who don't really want to hurt each other (usually), and the outcome is predetermined. There's no contest here. There's no money on the line... there's only an owner who gets a really big paycheck.

In other words, every match is a fix, every loss is a dive, and that's why it's called "Sports Entertainment" instead of an actual sport.

Posted: **2007-06-27 03:03pm**

Darth Wong wrote:
Stravo wrote:I'm curious, with the apparent rampant steroid use among pro baseball players why aren't we seeing weird behavior and deaths like the ones in wrestling? Is there an added factor that makes steroid use so deadly in pro wrestling?
They're taking huge dosages, and it's literally 100% of them, not just the heavy hitters like it is in baseball.

Indeed, it's actually pretty interesting to watch how ex-wrestlers like Jesse Ventura or Dwayne Johnson ("The Rock") or some of the others that have moved on have de-bulked. They're still big guys but they're far pretty far removed from being the caricatures they were during their wrestling careers.

Posted: **2007-06-27 04:10pm**

I think the "Fame" aspect plays a part in quite a few of the suicides. These guys get cheered by millions of people all over the country. Loosing that "ultimate high" and the "ultimate depression" that follows that loss, as it has been described to me, I'm sure plays a big part in the suicides. And unlike the real pro sports, when the majority of these athletes leave the wrestling they are not millionaires or even that well off, and basically go back to any problems they had before they hit it big. The drug use, whether it is steroids or otherwise, probably just amplifies the problem.

I wonder how many on Darth Wong's list, aside from Benoit, commited suicide while they were actually still wrestling? Can anyone help with that?

Posted: **2007-06-27 06:08pm**

Wrestlers also get paid a lot less than the average pro sports athlete, only the main carders get multi millions even then it's closer to 1 than 5. Also seems to be way more like a fraternity where you can't get just out and come back when you feel you need a break unless you're a huge draw. They have no union and have to follow wacky traditions to get in with the management.

Most probably live a high class lifestyle they can barely upkeep without working constantly. Everything about their lifestyle just screams trouble, long periods on the road, high pressure and no security. Though I can't feel sorry for people who could live a good life just working a few years and saving up, with a 6 figure salary you could potentially set yourself up for reasonable middle-uppermiddle class life.

Posted: **2007-06-27 08:25pm**

Edward Yee wrote:
Solauren wrote:I hope my cousin that became a professional wreslter in the last year avoids those pitfalls.
May I ask which promotions he's worked or aspired to?

Last I heard, he was doing indepedent bookings in Ontario, and doing some referee work. He's done some work with T.N.A, including referee'd a match with 'the Monster Abyss'.

However, he's smart enough to realise he'll never be more then a Cruiserweight. He's about the overall size of Rey Mysterio.

Posted: **2007-06-27 08:32pm**

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Stravo wrote:I'm curious, with the apparent rampant steroid use among pro baseball players why aren't we seeing weird behavior and deaths like the ones in wrestling? Is there an added factor that makes steroid use so deadly in pro wrestling?
They're taking huge dosages, and it's literally 100% of them, not just the heavy hitters like it is in baseball.
Indeed, it's actually pretty interesting to watch how ex-wrestlers like Jesse Ventura or Dwayne Johnson ("The Rock") or some of the others that have moved on have de-bulked. They're still big guys but they're far pretty far removed from being the caricatures they were during their wrestling careers.

And don't forget - the Venturas and Johnsons are the smart ones who leverage their fame into careers that require less physical abuse. I don't know whether its a concious decision or not, but the end result is that they don't keep pounding away at their bodies and gulping drugs. They get older and move on to other things.

Schwarzenegger is another example - he wasn't a wrestler, but pro body-building is just as steroid-soaked and just as damaging long term to the human body. Arnold won his titles (with steroids) then moved on into acting and later politics. He is also probably smarter than the average body builder, too, which may have been a factor in his getting out of the profession instead of staying in until he was dead.

Posted: **2007-06-27 09:12pm**

Solauren wrote:
Edward Yee wrote:
Solauren wrote:I hope my cousin that became a professional wreslter in the last year avoids those pitfalls.
May I ask which promotions he's worked or aspired to?
Last I heard, he was doing indepedent bookings in Ontario, and doing some referee work. He's done some work with T.N.A, including referee'd a match with 'the Monster Abyss'.

However, he's smart enough to realise he'll never be more then a Cruiserweight. He's about the overall size of Rey Mysterio.

I certainly don't disagree with his choices and self-awareness, and it's great to hear.

TNA, eh? He wouldn't have happened to wear shorts instead of pants, would he?

Posted: **2007-06-27 09:20pm**

Edward Yee wrote:
Solauren wrote:
Edward Yee wrote:May I ask which promotions he's worked or aspired to?
Last I heard, he was doing indepedent bookings in Ontario, and doing some referee work. He's done some work with T.N.A, including referee'd a match with 'the Monster Abyss'.

However, he's smart enough to realise he'll never be more then a Cruiserweight. He's about the overall size of Rey Mysterio.
I certainly don't disagree with his choices and self-awareness, and it's great to hear.

TNA, eh? He wouldn't have happened to wear shorts instead of pants, would he?

No idea actually

Posted: **2007-06-27 09:22pm**

Broomstick wrote:Schwarzenegger is another example - he wasn't a wrestler, but pro body-building is just as steroid-soaked and just as damaging long term to the human body. Arnold won his titles (with steroids) then moved on into acting and later politics. He is also probably smarter than the average body builder, too, which may have been a factor in his getting out of the profession instead of staying in until he was dead.

It's also worth noting that when Schwarzenegger was in body-building, bodybuilders typically took maybe 100 mg/week of steroids at most. Now there are plenty of people who take more than that per day. If you look at bodybuilders from Schwarzenegger's era, they don't have that papery-skinned freakish look that modern bodybuilders have, and a lot of that is the drastic increase in steroid use since then.

Posted: **2007-06-27 09:46pm**

Darth Wong wrote:
Broomstick wrote:Schwarzenegger is another example - he wasn't a wrestler, but pro body-building is just as steroid-soaked and just as damaging long term to the human body. Arnold won his titles (with steroids) then moved on into acting and later politics. He is also probably smarter than the average body builder, too, which may have been a factor in his getting out of the profession instead of staying in until he was dead.
It's also worth noting that when Schwarzenegger was in body-building, bodybuilders typically took maybe 100 mg/week of steroids at most. Now there are plenty of people who take more than that per day. If you look at bodybuilders from Schwarzenegger's era, they don't have that papery-skinned freakish look that modern bodybuilders have, and a lot of that is the drastic increase in steroid use since then.

The Govenor in his hay day couldn't even compete with todays BEGINING amatures, and that is scary.

Posted: **2007-06-27 09:50pm**

havokeff wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Broomstick wrote:Schwarzenegger is another example - he wasn't a wrestler, but pro body-building is just as steroid-soaked and just as damaging long term to the human body. Arnold won his titles (with steroids) then moved on into acting and later politics. He is also probably smarter than the average body builder, too, which may have been a factor in his getting out of the profession instead of staying in until he was dead.
It's also worth noting that when Schwarzenegger was in body-building, bodybuilders typically took maybe 100 mg/week of steroids at most. Now there are plenty of people who take more than that per day. If you look at bodybuilders from Schwarzenegger's era, they don't have that papery-skinned freakish look that modern bodybuilders have, and a lot of that is the drastic increase in steroid use since then.
The Govenor in his hay day couldn't even compete with todays BEGINING amatures, and that is scary.

The Governator in his prime looked like a statue of a Greek god. Modern bodybuilders look more like laboratory experiments. When it comes to symmetry and form and proportion, I still say Schwarzenegger looked better than any of the modern bodybuilders. He can't compete on the bizarre criteria modern bodybuilders use, but I think that's more of a statement on how fucked-up modern bodybuilding is. I wonder if modern bodybuilders ever ask themselves why their industry isn't generating any marketable stars any more. Nobody in the general population can even name a single bodybuilder; the "sport" has marginalized itself by obsessing over "freakiness". Sell freaks, and your audience will soon be composed of only freaks.

Posted: **2007-06-28 05:32pm**

Interestingly enough the scheduled RAW on Sky Sports here in the UK has been replaced by a highlights of the year episode. At the start of the programme Vince McMahon made a very good speech about the situation, explaining that when RAW was aired he didn't have the full details and now that he does he wants to honour the living and forget Benoit. I never really liked McMahon, but he has handled this situation with a lot of class.

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