StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Great Gatsby. Everyone raves about how wonderful a character Gatsby is; I found him unsympathetic and unconvincing, and utterly failed to understand what Nick Carraway saw in him. Oh, so he wants this girl who's gotten married to a rich lout and keeps throwing parties and hoping she comes... Cry me a river. And yes, it was beautifully written... but that just didn't cut it for me.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The Smashing Pumpkins.

I never really liked them all that much to begin with, but now with ten years hindsight they sound just atrocious, even for mid-90s alt-rock, and I can't believe how they ever got such a huge fan following.

Billy Corrigan's voice sounds like a combination of an industrial air compressor with a loose screw and Ashley Simpson falling tits-first into a bear trap. Did you ever have the misfortune to hear his cover of "Landslide"? He sings the song like he's mocking it.

Oh, yeah. I'm back. Hi everyone.

Death from the Sea wrote:but how do they get hooked? and same goes for the chewing tobacco and dip.

In the case of cigarettes (can't speak for chewing tobacco considering I've never tried it), it just feels damn good to have one after certain times or events (meals, sex, etc). In my personal road to quit smoking, I have found that the cravings are most intense after those events I mentioned, and also right before I go to bed at night. Once you start getting into the habit of smoking a regular cigarette after meals, for instance, it's not too far of a stretch to start having a smoke at other times of the day as well. After that, at least in my case, it just snowballs (into about a pack a day, in my case).

Gullible Jones wrote:The Great Gatsby. Everyone raves about how wonderful a character Gatsby is; I found him unsympathetic and unconvincing, and utterly failed to understand what Nick Carraway saw in him. Oh, so he wants this girl who's gotten married to a rich lout and keeps throwing parties and hoping she comes... Cry me a river. And yes, it was beautifully written... but that just didn't cut it for me.

I liked the book, but I came away from it thinking the best character was Gatsby's father. He had a sad dignity that everybody else pretty much lacked.

I thought the point of the story was that everyone thinks he's great, when in fact he isn't and he doesn't think he is, either.

That is the point.

I still thought his father near the end was the best character in the book.

Mlenk wrote:

Death from the Sea wrote:but how do they get hooked? and same goes for the chewing tobacco and dip.

In the case of cigarettes (can't speak for chewing tobacco considering I've never tried it), it just feels damn good to have one after certain times or events (meals, sex, etc). In my personal road to quit smoking, I have found that the cravings are most intense after those events I mentioned, and also right before I go to bed at night. Once you start getting into the habit of smoking a regular cigarette after meals, for instance, it's not too far of a stretch to start having a smoke at other times of the day as well. After that, at least in my case, it just snowballs (into about a pack a day, in my case).

It feels good because you became addicted. It doesn't explain how you became addicted in the first place. It's not as if a lifelong non-smoker is laying there after sex thinking "Goddamn, I have a sudden urge to try my first cigarette right now!"

RedImperator wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The Smashing Pumpkins.

I never really liked them all that much to begin with, but now with ten years hindsight they sound just atrocious, even for mid-90s alt-rock, and I can't believe how they ever got such a huge fan following.

Billy Corrigan's voice sounds like a combination of an industrial air compressor with a loose screw and Ashley Simpson falling tits-first into a bear trap. Did you ever have the misfortune to hear his cover of "Landslide"? He sings the song like he's mocking it.

Oh, yeah. I'm back. Hi everyone.

Yay, Red is back!

PS. I just thought of something else that's enormously popular and which I don't understand at all: World of Warcraft.

The key to that is understand it isn't the literal game most people are 'addicted' to, it's the metagame that surrounds it (player goals, clan stuff, social nonsense, etc). It's not like 'Diablo with more buttons' is a recipe for compelling gameplay - it's popular because of what people invest in it, like Facebook etc.

I played EVE for a bit, and the game itself is dead boring (almost literally spreadsheets). But it was freeform enough to cook up your own longterm plans, rip people off, lie, cheat, steal and all that good stuff. Nobody plays it for fedex quests without thinking 'this will help me with fictional goal 28'.

Darth Wong wrote:

RedImperator wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The Smashing Pumpkins.

I never really liked them all that much to begin with, but now with ten years hindsight they sound just atrocious, even for mid-90s alt-rock, and I can't believe how they ever got such a huge fan following.

Billy Corrigan's voice sounds like a combination of an industrial air compressor with a loose screw and Ashley Simpson falling tits-first into a bear trap. Did you ever have the misfortune to hear his cover of "Landslide"? He sings the song like he's mocking it.

Oh, yeah. I'm back. Hi everyone.

Yay, Red is back!

PS. I just thought of something else that's enormously popular and which I don't understand at all: World of Warcraft.

It's for people who don't have anything better to do really than pretend to be challenged by something that's entirely memorization, repetition and colorful cartoony whatever dying.

IE: It's extremely popular. Just like all the other uninspired but fairly well polished fundamentally boring games Blizzard makes!

Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Watched it, was subjected to it because my immediate family were a bunch of Buffy fan-whores, tolerated it for a while, but rapidly grew to hate it. I think what got me the most was the 'I have incredible vampire-slaying powers, but all I want to do is be normal!' theme. I just can't see what is attractive about that. I don't want to watch a show about someone trying desperately to be 'normal' and 'fit in', I see more than enough of that in real life.

...well that and a vast majority of the vampires and demons in that show simply sucked ass.

TV: I can't stand it, period. It is, and has been since pretty much when it came out, nothing more than a platform for aggressive advertising and passive-recipient conditioning. Almost every part of TV programming is geared towards making the viewer more complacent, lean towards unwise, senseless consumerism and unquestioningly accept what the flashy box tells them is true. At least with computers, though more than a little infected with advertising themselves, there is an active sense of participation. I've lived without broadcast TV for several years now, and the few times I see it going on when I'm visiting someone, I am amazed at how simply mindless and blatant in its manipulation it is.

Darth Wong wrote:

ray245 wrote:Sigh...there is nothing in this world that is liked by everyone...all it takes is I person to rate something low...and any perfect score will be impossible.

The fact that nothing scores perfect does not mean that one cannot discuss relative quality. And there's a very strong herd mentality in certain popular preferences. For example, look at the stupid "black culture = cool" idea. Oooh, anyone can be "cool" by acting like he has no education and came from a shitty neighbourhood!!!

Ugh, DON'T REMIND ME!

I am Black, and present "Black" culture is one of the things I don't get. I can't even begin to explain it.

Answer: Anime -- Honestly, I've always liked the general art style, and the fact that the differences in cultures, both minor and major, often allow for things most American broadcasters wouldn't even have thought to put on the air, live-action or animated.

Answer: Mecha -- Rather than just military equipment, Giant mecha are in many ways an extension of their pilots. The sheer variety of forms, armament, strengths, abilities, and such lead to a level of personalization and expression you don't get in standard milspec gear. The only thing that's come close for tanks are Battletech(ironically) and the Bolo series.

Slasher films -- I don't get the thrill people get for watching coeds get killed.

Morals/Aesops in children's TV shows -- I used to think this wasn't half-bad, mangled morals aside (see Broken Aesop for more on that), I just find it stupid when I realize that it seems that we're supposed to discard roughly half the good ones when we grow up.

Character Hatred/Bashing -- Why waste so much time and negative energy on someone you not only dislike, but who doesn't actually exist?

Guitar Hero/Rock Band. It boggles my mind how popular this is. I've played Rock Band before, its a bit of fun, but jesus, its little more than a Simon game in the shape of a guitar/crappy drum set.

Scarface's cult following of "gangstas" and "Gotti" wannabes. What the hell do people see in Tony fucking Montana? He treats everyone like shit, breaks his own rules, and in the end dies face down in a water fountain. Yet he is emulated by wannabe thugs across the US. What is the appeal of being so self-destructive? What good is the wealth if youre not fucking smart enough to enjoy it?

And I'm with Oni on Buffy the Vampire slayer. It was such a lukewarm show. The only character who seemed to have any life was the Mayor (who was an awesome, quirky villain), and he was only around for a season.

American/Canadian Beer. I don't drink often, but when I do, why would I want to drink stuff that tastes like weak piss diluted in water? Hefeweizen and Scottish ales all the way.

Death from the Sea wrote:but how do they get hooked? and same goes for the chewing tobacco and dip.

In the case of chewing tobacco the way I would get hooked is a failure of willpower. I really really want to try it. Why? Because for some reason that truly mystifies me, having stuff pressing against my gums feels good. I was rather pissed when my back molars grew, as it made it impossible for me to masticate chewing gum with my gums rather than my teeth. If chewing tobacco is anything like I picture it being, then I would love the stuff even without the addictive nicotine. There are two reasons I don't and won't use it: I don't want mouth cancer, and I don't want my taste buds' sensitivity dulled.

I think I'm a rather unique case though, most people who get hooked on it probably get hooked for different reasons.

MMORPGs I have friends who have dragged me kicking and screaming into Ultima Online, WoW, that one game from Microsoft, Linage etc...

now while I tolerate Hellgate, but I can't figure out what the frak the attraction/addiction is? yes of all the people I know I have the lowest level characters (one third of the levels of Girl Friend's characters)...

Lusankya wrote:I don't get mangoes. I spent years with people just assuming that everyone liked mangoes, and I thought that maybe I'd just been getting crap mangoes, because I didn't like the taste. Then one day it hit me: I just don't like mangoes. And now every time I'm offered a mango, I have to spend five minutes explaining that no, I don't like mangoes, and I doubt that I'll particularly like their mango either, unless it's actually a banana.

I don't understand how anyone can even exist in the same room as licorice. Seriously, I hate it so much that I find it hard to breathe when there's a strong licorice smell about. I even used to walk past the King of Knives when I went to the Coles at Chaddy, because the alternative was walking past Darrell Lea, which absolutely reeks of licorice. And then sometimes my mum EATS THE STUFF WHILE IN THE CAR WITH ME, and I have to beg her to put it away while choking on my own bile. I don't think I'm allergic to it or anything. I just hate it that much.

I also don't understand how those comedies about people being horrible to members of their family (King of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond, etc.) ever became popular. I have enough dysfunctional family life at home without watching it on the telly, thank you very much. And I don't find the dysfunctional family life that I have to deal with particularly funny, either.

I am so in agreement with the whole rant on Licorice. I don't like mangoes either. I also don't get 24. Now tv show Friends I really like and I am a big fan of beer and coffee.

Christianity and Islam, I don't get why but they're everywhere these days!

Beer, I agree with everything bad said about beer, though not necessarily about everything bad said about alcohol. I say go for cider, it's almost as 'manly' (where I live, anyway) and has the added bonus of not tasting like a pint of liquid ash. Oh, and guinness, why does anyone think this stuff is special?

I also don't like driving and I don't understand armament fetishism, by that last one I mean the way that people will obsess over the details of weaponry and other military hardware. When I find some science-fiction writeup of any kind with paragraphs of detail on the specs of particular guns or spacecraft I just skip it.

Tiriol wrote: Lucifer - yes, it's a good comic. But no, it's NOT the greatest comic of them all, no matter what. The protagonist is entirely unlikeable by design, every character is more or less self-absorbed (with the exception of Death, Destiny and apparently the much-reviled Heavenly Host) and after the creation of Lucifer's Cosmos and God's self-imposed exile the storyline became stagnant.

I agree with this one wholeheartedly, Elaine Belloc also started out being quite sympathetic but soon after she became the protector goddess of Luciverse I lost interest in her. And my god, talk about a letdown of an ending (multiple letdowns, in fact, the way Fenris went down in Morningstar was just weak).

Staying on the theme of comics, I don't get continuing superhero comics, though I suppose I haven't read that many besides Marvels Civil War. I like many comics, but I don't see how you could keep going back to these things when it's abundantly clear that nothing will ever change. I do understand the appeal of a formula, but after, what, forty years for something like Spiderman it's got to wear a little thin.

I don't get most trends in modern music, in particular those infuriating south California punk/emo/whatever bands where the main singer sounds like he's either a)still going through puberty, b) having a severe asthma attack or c) both. And modern R'n'B where, as Lord Wong pointed out in one of his rants, the singer feels compelled to cram as many notes as possible into the same word. And those goddamn insensible noises that they feel have to accompany the actual song, like at the end of the new Alicia Keyes song where she makes those 'uh-oh-oh-oh-OH' noises like a football hooligan cheering on her team, why Alicia? What purpose does it serve?
Oh, and Rhianna, she sounds like a cat with a throat infection, for Apollos sake.

NeoGoomba wrote: Scarface's cult following of "gangstas" and "Gotti" wannabes. What the hell do people see in Tony fucking Montana? He treats everyone like shit, breaks his own rules, and in the end dies face down in a water fountain. Yet he is emulated by wannabe thugs across the US. What is the appeal of being so self-destructive? What good is the wealth if youre not fucking smart enough to enjoy it?

I have a theory about that.

It basically boils down to this:

"I hate my life and am bored with it ; I am angry at myself and the world around me because of that. It would be so incredibly cool if I could violently destroy myself and the things that annoy me, so that at least I'll be remembered for that, if nothing else. Also, I want lots of sex, but suck at relationships."

In other words, these people are bored and have no ambition beyond "Do what makes me feel good", and secretly hate themselves for it.

And deep down, secretly, they know others despise them, and won't remember them fondly after they die.

Echoing what others said, MMORPGs. Let's see: it's not about playing any sort of immersive role, you're constantly surrounded by retards with godlike powers who run around spouting Engrish, everything you want to do has been done a thousand times already, and the game is geared towards rewarding introverted antisocial misfits with higher relative powers. Hot shit, I can't wait to pay to get addicted!

Alienware. I guess you get what you pay for. Only in the case of Alienware, thirty percent of what you pay for is the name. It's like buying your computer a designer suit, and then expecting people to give a shit. It's baffling.

Pimp as having any connotation other than 'vile scum-sucking parasitic waste of flesh.' The introduction of the verb "pimping" to the English langage to my mind represents the most inexcusable legacy of the gangsta culture. Fuck 'pimpz' and anyone who would glorify them.

my best friend for the last 10 years and his wife are now alienware owning, WoW addicts, who you have to drag out to events down the hill....

One more for the "24" crowd. I tried to watch the first episodes, but it was...underwhelming.
Clubbing/Dancing. I can't see anything worthwhile in it. I rather be at a good restaurant than in a loud, crowded club.
Gay Scene. I can't fathom why anyone would like to inflict that on himself...

Dahak wrote:Clubbing/Dancing. I can't see anything worthwhile in it. I rather be at a good restaurant than in a loud, crowded club.

And I'd rather be dancing (but not in an overcrowded club). Actually, I'd rather do both in one night, to be honest. One thing I've noticed though (and I'm not making an assumption about you) is that people who hate dance clubs usually can't dance. I wonder if this affects (or effects?) their views on the matter.

speaker-to-trolls wrote:

Tiriol wrote: Lucifer - yes, it's a good comic. But no, it's NOT the greatest comic of them all, no matter what. The protagonist is entirely unlikeable by design, every character is more or less self-absorbed (with the exception of Death, Destiny and apparently the much-reviled Heavenly Host) and after the creation of Lucifer's Cosmos and God's self-imposed exile the storyline became stagnant.

I agree with this one wholeheartedly, Elaine Belloc also started out being quite sympathetic but soon after she became the protector goddess of Luciverse I lost interest in her. And my god, talk about a letdown of an ending (multiple letdowns, in fact, the way Fenris went down in Morningstar was just weak).

I have a little theory about the ending: after they made Lucifer to create his own cosmos in defiance of his Father and after the huge build-up with the Basanos, the writers found themselves in the situation where they couldn't think of any ending as deep and interesting as the beginning of the series. Lucifer had already decided to leave Yahweh's Universe and had made his own; he had already been defeated there, but had also defeated those who had beat him. God's departure was a good idea, but it lacked the same level of depth as in Preacher. So the writers were forced to write anything to clear the whole mess up and they clearly didn't want an ending where the Heavenly Host (and presumably the Lord) would actually win; they also didn't want an ending where Lucifer would actually truly succeed in his rebellion and become the ruler of existence (although he made the point that he had grown weary of governing in general); and actual end of existence would also be too bleak. So they had to settle to the Host's utter humiliation and the downgrading of angels in general, some half-assed realignment of the cosmic principles. The series went out with a whimper. I could have lived with it had it actually carried some meaning in it, but no: it was all about Lucifer's pride and arrogant personality and about God's sick fascination with Lucifer to the exclusion of everything else.

I also echo the sentiment about World of Warcraft and similar games. I just don't get them.

Darth Wong wrote:I don't get anime. At all.

I don't get how people can call Anime a 'genre' with a straight face. It's a medium. I like some anime stuff, but only stuff that is already in a genre I like. For example, I like semi-realistic space opera, so I like Cowboy Bebop. However, giant robot stuff bores me shitless.

What really confuses me, however, is people who listen to dance music outside of a dance club. I mean, if you're just listening to it, as opposed to actively dancing to it, it's bland, repetetive shite.

Phantasee; I also don't like going to clubs. Partly, as you say, because I can't dance , but partly because it's usually around midnight, or 4 beers, were I just crash and want to go home, and get all grumpy and miserable.

Talking of beer, most mass-produced lagers, at least in the UK, are horrible. Stuff like Caffrey's or Guinness are, IMO, much better (as long as you get a good one; plenty of pubs in Glasgow that can fuck up a Guinness). I quite liked Japanese lagers when I was out there - I didn't hit that 4 beer thing I mentioned with them - but sadly, the stuff you get in the UK is brewed under licence, hence it's shit

And the other thing that confuses me? HR bullshit. I mean, an email came round our office the other day saying that some people had been complaining about only having 'Technologist' as a job title, and would it be better if we were called Metallurgists? Setting aside the fact that I'm not a metallurgist, who gives a shit what it says on my personell records, as long as they keep paying me?

Phantasee wrote:

Dahak wrote:Clubbing/Dancing. I can't see anything worthwhile in it. I rather be at a good restaurant than in a loud, crowded club.

And I'd rather be dancing (but not in an overcrowded club). Actually, I'd rather do both in one night, to be honest. One thing I've noticed though (and I'm not making an assumption about you) is that people who hate dance clubs usually can't dance. I wonder if this affects (or effects?) their views on the matter.

I'm sure it does. If I could do anything other than headbang and mosh, I'd probably go to clubs instead of metal concerts.